You cannot possibly have a good god enabling all the bad things, it doesn't possibly work. You're either wilfully lying or too stupid to follow, any prophet who says this is corrupt.
Any religion that says God is good is fundamentally corrupt.
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@RationalMadman
You cannot possibly have a good god enabling all the bad things, it doesn't possibly work. You're either wilfully lying or too stupid to follow, any prophet who says this is corrupt.
The simple possibilities are listed below:
If God is omniscient and omnipotent, then
1. God planned all things and brought all things to pass or
2. He didn't. If he didn't, he could have planned almost all things to pass, right down to nothing at all.
If the first is true, then either God does all things with a holy purpose for good in accordance with his will, or
he is an evil and vindictive god with an enormous amount of power and no goodwill. Effectively someone to be very afraid of.
If the second is true, then assuming he has the power to stop it, but chose not to for whatever reason that might be, it makes God to be reckless and effectively malicious in my view.
If God is not omniscient and omnipotent, then
3. God couldn't stop evil even if he wanted to. Or he didn't know what was going to happen, and so didn't know when to stop it.
If no god exists, then
4, all evil exists anyway despite the fact that god does not. And proves that god is just a convenient scapegoat for evil humans to blame evil on - rather than accept the responsibility themselves.
In my view, since I find the notion of evolution and the world improbable statistically without a designer, I do believe in God. For me, the sheer reality demonstrates that things did not occur by chance and randomness. This is too absurd to seriously contemplate.
Yet, for God to create the world, and to name the stars by name, demonstrates a profound knowledge that is so far above anyone on this planet, that omniscience might be suitably attributable to him. It also demonstrates a significant amount of power to create and sustain such stars and planets. How these words might be defined might be a good question but I am comfortable with definitions that are so great that omniscience and omnipotence are appropriate. Even if he does know all things and cannot do all things. Hence, 3 really is just a nod to the liberal in the church who want their cake and to eat it as well.
I find it untenable to think that God is pure evil. the reason for this - is there is too much good in the world.
This leaves only a holy God that intends for things to pass for his own holy will.
Philosophically, this seems the only palatable position to take and is also the way that God describes himself in the Bible.
I don't think is stupid or lying. Nor a corrupt way to think.
God doesnt enable evil. He punishes evil and rewards the good.
"Good people suffering" seems horrible, but the reward for suffering is great: Eternal joy.
While evil seems strong, the punishment for evil is great: hell.
If you are a good person, then suffering for 100 years will be rewarded with infinite joy and eternal life. A good trade indeed.
Also, God is the creator of good. There is no good without God.
Without God, both evil and good people perish equally.
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@RationalMadman
Well-stated.
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@Best.Korea
God doesnt enable evil.
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things".
Isaiah 45:7
@ Steven
Thank you for correcting me.
If you become a Christian, surely you will have a reward for this in heaven.
Remember, there is no good without God.
Bless you.
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@RationalMadman
You're either wilfully lying or too stupid to follow, any prophet who says this is corrupt.
Could you elaborate your position from this sentence?
The phrase "this is corrupt." What exactly is "this" refering to?
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@hey-yo
Put a comma after 'this', grammar Nazi.
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@Stephen
.
Stephen,
Did you see Miss Tradesecret/DavidAZ's latest Bible stupid quotes in "their" post #2 above? "They" haven't lost their touch in being Bible stupid again! LOL!
MISSTRADESECRET/DAVIDAZ QUOTE THAT SLAPS JESUS AS GOD IN THE FACE!!!: "In my view, since I find the notion of evolution and the world improbable statistically without a designer, I do believe in God. For me, the sheer reality demonstrates that things did not occur by chance and randomness. This is too absurd to seriously contemplate."
What truly is to absurd is that Miss Tradesecret/DavidAZ accepts evolution instead of Jesus' two contradicting Creation narratives? BLASPHEME! Then if this fact of hers isn't embarrassing enough, then "they" say "they" believe in God, but doesn't give Jesus the credit for this said God concept (2 Peter 1:1)! BLASPHEME #2!
MISSTRADESECRET/DAVIDAZ QUOTE THAT ACCEPTS THE BIBLICAL FACT THAT JESUS, AS GOD, NAMED THE STARS APPROXIMATELY 6000 YEARS AGO: "Yet, for God to create the world, and to name the stars by name, demonstrates a profound knowledge that is so far above anyone on this planet, that omniscience might be suitably attributable to him."
Of course Jesus as God is omniscient, duh, where the Bible stupid fool MissTradesecret/DavidAZ didn't know the passage to prove this fact as usual, where AGAIN, I have to show "them" herewith: “In whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things.” (1 John 3:20)
Then to embarrass Miss Tradesecret/DavidAZ again, "they" didn't know where in the scriptures that Jesus, as God, named the stars, where I have to AGAIN show "them" where this truth is located herewith: "He telleth the number of the stars; He calleth them all by their names. Great is our Lord, and of great power: His understanding is infinite." (Psalm 147:4-5)
Furthermore, Jesus being God named approximately "!!! 200 BILLION TRILLION STARS!!!" that exist in the universe that Jesus created, and as shown biblically, this was approximately 6000 years ago, BUT WAIT, the dinosaurs walked the earth between 65 to 245 million years ago, whoops, WTF! Damn it, do you see why the Hell Bound Atheists laugh at us Christians with these biblically vouchsafed FACTS? :(
Stephen, don't worry, Jesus and I will keep track on further posts of "them" to show other Bible stupid positions that "they" will take in this thread!
.
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@Best.Korea
A Christian communist!!! Hahahahaha. Who would have guessed!!
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@Best.Korea
Thank you for correcting me.If you become a Christian, surely you will have a reward for this in heaven.
Nope. I am not celibate. Read your bible.
Corrected you again, but still no reward for me.
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@RationalMadman
You cannot possibly have a good god enabling all the bad things, it doesn't possibly work. You're either wilfully lying or too stupid to follow, any prophet who says this is corrupt.
What about Free Will? Is there Free Will in forcing us to only doing good? Is there any love in that?
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@Skipper_Sr
What about Free Will? Is there Free Will in forcing us to only doing good? Is there any love in that?
Free will when used for evil, is evil. God is tyrannical no matter what god does by the very position god is in. God makes us knowing how we'll react to almost all situations anyway, at least maybe with tactical blind spots if god can split the personality and decision making process into split personalities etc or ignore part of its omniscience at times for entertainment.
I have an alternative take as I think god is only hijacking certain parts of the randomly generated reality but that's my own understanding which is frankly so much deeper than all religions put together.
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@RationalMadman
We have the ability to do evil things. But God redeems us and if we follow Him, we are lead to a perfect afterlife.
How is God using Free Will for evil?
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@Skipper_Sr
okay are you asking the real god that I know is real or god as in the main deity of the bible?
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@RationalMadman
The Biblical God.
You can share your personal views about your god too if you think it furthers the conversation
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@Skipper_Sr
I do not call her my god, I get that's a term people use which is as silly as 'my country' but she/it is the real goddess of reality. The mother of it.
I have explained this elsewhere but specifically morally and psychologically, she is in human terms an extremely high functioning sociopath with probably a variant of what we call borderline personality disorder but a version where she feels everyone will reject the real her or accept her only becasue she programmed them to, she is in a hell of her own and soothes herself by watching us as entertainment. Nothing more to it, yes she finds beauty perhaps in the good emotions but also in the agony and bad ones.
Without divine authority, you cannot have objective morality.
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@RationalMadman
Im just trying to understand your concern.
What is bad, and what does bad define or describe? How do we know something is bad?
Why does the existence of something bad extinguish the possibility that a god is good?
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@Stephen
Stephen!
Could you create a separate thread so you and I can have a proper discussion of biblical scripture?
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@Sir.Lancelot
There is no such thing as objective morality.
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@Tradesecret
Your #4 is correct. God does not exist, except in the minds of humans.
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@b9_ntt
Your #4 is correct. God does not exist, except in the minds of humans.
Good for you.
It is one of only 4 possibilities. It of course is so extremely unlikely that it would rationally be deemed impossible.
Yet I am pleased that you have at least revealed your true colours.
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@Sir.Lancelot
Stephen!Could you create a separate thread so you and I can have a proper discussion of biblical scripture?
There is nothing stopping you creating your own thread on any given subject in any of the sub forums on this site. Which includes the religion forum.
@Steven
Nope. I am not celibate. Read your bible.Corrected you again, but still no reward for me.
Thats because you are an atheist, Steven. Atheists get no rewards. Atheists perish if they are right, and burn if they are wrong. Also, they suffer in this world too, since atheism has no morality, hope or prayer and is a disadvantage in life.
Become a Christian now!
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@Sir.Lancelot
Without divine authority, you cannot have objective morality.
I'm not convinced that is true. I'm also not convinced morality need be objective to function.
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@RationalMadman
You cannot possibly have a good god enabling all the bad things, it doesn't possibly work. You're either wilfully lying or too stupid to follow, any prophet who says this is corrupt.
Explain this to me in more detail. I'm intrigued.
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@RationalMadman
I do not call her my god, I get that's a term people use which is as silly as 'my country' but she/it is the real goddess of reality. The mother of it.I have explained this elsewhere but specifically morally and psychologically, she is in human terms an extremely high functioning sociopath with probably a variant of what we call borderline personality disorder but a version where she feels everyone will reject the real her or accept her only becasue she programmed them to, she is in a hell of her own and soothes herself by watching us as entertainment. Nothing more to it, yes she finds beauty perhaps in the good emotions but also in the agony and bad ones.
Is this a view you learned about or more like a self-conceived conclusion you came to? I ask because I am unfamiliar with this belief
It sounds like this god has a lot of personal issues. "in a hell of her own" "soothes herself" "feels everyone will reject the real her" Why does she have them?
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@Skipper_Sr
Because you don't need human brain and hormones to experience boredom and loneliness. This is an assumption we have made yet spiders clearly show conscious adaptation and decision making despite lacking brains.
I am not sure you understood my point. We ought not to feel true pity or sympathy for her, she sees it as our programmed response if we do. I also am not sure what to trust you with. It is always best to connect with god your own way and path as then it/she can set up a way that you will believe and feel sane knowing instead of one another mere mortal like me pushes that may backfire.
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@Tradesecret
I find it untenable to think that God is pure evil. the reason for this - is there is too much good in the world.This leaves only a holy God that intends for things to pass for his own holy will.
False dichotomy. Evil as a sumation of one's character is a spectrum. There is no other instance where we would cast aside atrocities and reject that someone is evil because we can show one good thing they have done.