Leftists...........explain this.

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IlDiavolo
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The double standard is very typical in the left wing. Get used to it.
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@SkepticalOne
Just let me try to understand what you're saying...a clitoris (which everyone who has ever existed has possessed) isn't female genitalia? This has become absurd. I encourage you to take a step back and re-evaluate your position.
Nope, you are misunderstanding what I am saying. 

If chromosomes are absolute...how do you think intersex people exist? 
Intersex people are born with different organs, not chromosomes. 

hey-yo
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@oromagi
Potential conflating but it does happen. Many pro abortion individuals deny anothers ability to have an opinion on abortion in general.  Even if that person is a woman. 
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Why are we discussing porn in the middle of all of this?

Never mind, badger showed up.
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@oromagi
Still false.  By definition, leftists believe that every citizen has a right to an opinion on any subject.
Unless it conflates with their own. Just look at the media. The majority of it is run by the left, and most of right-wing opinions are either censored or age restricted, while drag queens twerking half naked in front of children isn't. 

 Your definition of left/right seems to be coming from Tik Tok and Tucker and not from studying the Tennis Court Oath.
I don't have Tik Tok. I don't like being spied on by the Communists. 
I also don't watch fox news and rarely watch Tucker Carlson. 

I get my definition from what I see.

The cast of the Daily Wire gets content restricted and age restricted by YouTube where they are relaying their own opinions on political and personal topics, none of which are bad. 

Meanwhile on YouTube Kids there are videos on the recommended page, teaching kids about pronouns, and consent, and sexual topics. Yet those videos are on YouTube Kids. 

Please educate yourself on the meaning of the terms you use before you use them.
I have and will. 
Thank you for your concern. 

Correct.  Leftists seek to minimize government intervention in the lives of citizens.
"They write new content and verify and edit content received from contributors. The Democratic Party is generally associated with more progressive policies. It supports social and economic equality, favoring greater government intervention in the economy but opposing government involvement in the private noneconomic affairs of citizens."
So yes you are correct on this one. 

  • No, you are using Tucker Carlson's definitions of words rather than the dictionary.  When you use non-biased expert sources, you discover that "Scholars distinguish libertarian views on the nature of property and capital, usually along left–right or socialist–capitalist lines.  Libertarians of various schools were influenced by liberal ideas.  Libertarianism originated as a form of left-wing politics such as anti-authoritarian and anti-state socialists like anarchists especially social anarchists, but more generally libertarian communists/Marxists and libertarian socialists" (Wikipedia)
Yep..........use Wikipedia as your source. Didn't they teach you anything in school?

Libertarians: "an advocate or supporter of a political philosophy that advocates only minimal state intervention in the free market and the private lives of citizens:"
(Oxford Dictionary)

  • I've already demonstrated that your argument is formally broken. 
How so? 
Explain step by step how my argument is broken. 

It's a simple observation really. 

  • Your conclusions are based on a primitive, Tucker-style poltical dichotomy with no relation to the tenants of political science.
What's your deal with Tucker Carlson dude?
I mean he is sometimes really annoying, but so are a lot of other people.

  • You don't seem to undersand the dictionary definition of Leftism.
Here's the problem with you. You understand the question, and it threatens you. Therefore, you start to play with definitions in order to get out of it. 
You understand what I am saying. So how do you explain it?

  • You can't provide one example of a left-leaning politician publicly stating that some citizens are not entitled to their  own opinion on any subject under any condition.  Suppressing opinion is a RIght-wing character flaw.
I never said anything about politicians saying this. Again, the explanation I wanted doesn't have to do with political leaders and bills etc. This has to do with an ideology. 

YouFound_Lxam
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@Double_R
Wrong. Everyone has a right to their own opinion and always will, this is a basic human right.
Ok dude. I have seen you, countless times state that men shouldn't be involved in this issue, because it isn't their problem. 

Wrong. Words in different contexts carry different meanings. On the subject of abortion, when we use the term woman we are generally talking about people with uteruses.
..............what other people besides women have uteruses?

See guys, this is a prime example of delusion. 
oromagi
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I don't have Tik Tok. I don't like being spied on by the Communists. 
I also don't watch fox news and rarely watch Tucker Carlson. 
  • Fine, Ben Shapiro, then but what's the difference, really?
I get my definition from what I see.
  • Yes, that's clear, and immediately raises the question about why aren't you getting your definitions from dictionaries?  Serious debaters use dictionaries so that everybody is talking about the same thing.  My definition of leftist comes from Wikipedia.  Your definition of leftist comes from Ben Shapiro.
Unless it conflates with their own. Just look at the media
  • Look up the word CONFLATE on wiktionary.  It doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.  I think you are looking for some word more like "contradicts".  Likewise, Leftist doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.  Not all leftists are pro-abortion.  Not all abortion rights advocates are leftists.  Why not address the abortion rights advocates rather than swinging wide of target by addressing Leftists?
  • Used correctly, most modern Westerners are fairly Leftist in conception.  The French came up with the word in part as a reaction to the American Revolution.  The Founding Fathers are Leftist by definition, because the politiicians who coined the term meant  Left to describe that part of parliament who favored American style Republicanism as the ideal form of government for France.  There no wiggle room for saying that America is not Leftist because Leftist actually means "American style democracy."  
The cast of the Daily Wire gets content restricted and age restricted by YouTube where they are relaying their own opinions on political and personal topics, none of which are bad. 
  • I turned on age restrictions but I was still able to access everything on the Daily Wire.  I can't  confirm that such a restriction exists.  I believe you are under the age of restriction yourself and yet you seem to have access to the site as well.  Am I missing something?
  • The Daily WIre has been caught printing a lot of fake news, especially regarding the election, the pandemic, climate change.  I hope you are expanding your research to less motivated, more rigorously fact based sources, as well.
Meanwhile on YouTube Kids there are videos on the recommended page, teaching kids about pronouns, and consent, and sexual topics. Yet those videos are on YouTube Kids. 
  • Yes, the internet is an anonymous unregulatable wild west and no place for children.  Most experts recommend no YouTube or reallyany social meda for children.   You are probably fucking yourself up right now just by reading this.  I could drop a pronoun at any moment.
Please educate yourself on the meaning of the terms you use before you use them.
I have and will. 
Thank you for your concern. 

Correct.  Leftists seek to minimize government intervention in the lives of citizens.
"They write new content and verify and edit content received from contributors. The Democratic Party is generally associated with more progressive policies. It supports social and economic equality, favoring greater government intervention in the economy but opposing government involvement in the private noneconomic affairs of citizens."
So yes you are correct on this one. 

  • I've already demonstrated that your argument is formally broken. 
How so? 

This is a lie:

So, you [LEFTISTS] say that you can't have an opinion on abortion if you don't have a uterus, right?
But then you guys also say that you don't need a uterus to be a woman, right?

I have met a few women who have suggested that only women should vote on abortion.  I have never met any American who in serious debate would argue that a fellow American does not have a right to any opinion.  This is an obvious falsehood and a  misrepresentation of Leftism.  Any false premise breaks the syllogism.

You can't provide one example of a left-leaning politician publicly stating that some citizens are not entitled to their  own opinion on any subject under any condition.  Suppressing opinion is a RIght-wing character flaw.
I never said anything about politicians saying this. Again, the explanation I wanted doesn't have to do with political leaders and bills etc. This has to do with an ideology. 
Yeah, a POLTICAL ideology.  If you are saying that you can't find a single poltician who identifiies as Leftist and is recorded saying that only people with uteruses may have an opinion on abortion than you are conceding your point as lacking evicence.    You can't say, "ok this is how a Leftist thinks" and then fail to produce any actual examples.  If you're thinking well, there's people on the Internet who call themselves leftists and express some similar opinion than that's no kind of evidence at all.  That could be a Russian Agent or an 8 year old or  you, inventing evidence- whatever.    You need to find a bunch of real live Leftists who make the argument you claim they make.  If you can't do that then you had no basis to make the claim to begin with.

oromagi
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@<<<oromagi>>>
Potential conflating but it does happen. Many pro abortion individuals deny anothers ability to have an opinion on abortion in general.  Even if that person is a woman. 
  • Let's have some specific , non-anonymous examples, please.

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@YouFound_Lxam
Whether it is a woman and whether one has a uterus or not is two separate issues no matter independent or not.
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@Intelligence_06
Whether it is a woman and whether one has a uterus or not is two separate issues no matter independent or not.
I kind of is linked together thought, right? 

I mean most democrats (not politicians) say that you can't have an opinion on abortion if you are a man.
But if you say you are a woman, then you are a woman, and you don't need a uterus to be a woman.

The whole way they justify men not being able to have an opinion on abortion, is because they don't have a uterus. But I thought I don't need to have a uterus to be a woman? 

So either:
A. Trans-women aren't allowed to get opinions on abortion either, therefore proving that they aren't real women.
B. Trans-women are allowed to get opinions on abortion, therefore proving that you don't need a uterus to have an opinion about abortion. 
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@YouFound_Lxam
Ok dude. I have seen you, countless times state that men shouldn't be involved in this issue, because it isn't their problem.
The assertion you made is that leftists believe men are not allowed to have an opinion on abortion. I'm explaining why that assertion is absolutely ridiculous. Funny how you responded to everything except that explanation.

..............what other people besides women have uteruses?

See guys, this is a prime example of delusion. 
No, it's a prime example of someone who doesn't understand the concept of context.
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@oromagi
I dont know an exact way to do that if its based on personal experience.

What is non anonymous? I am anonymous because you dont know my name. Most people online use aliases.

I will look or examples online. 

 


Easier to find more responses to the claim that men have no say then it is to find exact language on why men should not have a say. 



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@oromagi
  • Yes, the internet is an anonymous unregulatable wild west and no place for children.  Most experts recommend no YouTube or reallyany social meda for children.   You are probably fucking yourself up right now just by reading this.  I could drop a pronoun at any moment.


Sounds crazy but very true; experts are saying social media and many genralized online activities generate ill effects on developing minds. 

Just for the bullying alone, makes sense. 
SkepticalOne
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@YouFound_Lxam
Just let me try to understand what you're saying...a clitoris (which everyone who has ever existed has possessed) isn't female genitalia? This has become absurd. I encourage you to take a step back and re-evaluate your position.
Nope, you are misunderstanding what I am saying. 
This is your opportunity to explain. 

If chromosomes are absolute...how do you think intersex people exist? 
Intersex people are born with different organs, not chromosomes. 
So, in your mind, an individual that looks female, has functional female genitalia, a uterus, fallopian tubes, and... XY chromosomes is male?  I'm sure people with Swyer syndrome would disagree with that assessment.
ADreamOfLiberty
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@oromagi
Serious debaters use dictionaries so that everybody is talking about the same thing. 
Serious debators don't pretend vague definitions like "political left" have precise definitions for the very purpose of equivocating.


The Daily WIre has been caught printing a lot of fake news, especially regarding the election, the pandemic, climate change.
lol

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@ADreamOfLiberty

Scale is hardly relevant. If it's only one, but a right the laws are wrong. If it's a hundred thousand but abuse, the laws are right.
I agree. Any number of boys having their genitals mutilated (aka circumcized) without their consent is abhorrent. 

If chromosomes are absolute...how do you think intersex people exist? 
Why pretend this matters when the trans cult won't accept any biological standard whatsoever? It's a "social construct" [...] when it needs to be.
Sex is not a social construct and even it doesn't fit into nice neat binary categories. That's the point. 
YouFound_Lxam
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@SkepticalOne
This is your opportunity to explain.
I am saying that every single human being on earth (intersex or not) has either a male set of chromosomes or a female set of chromosomes. 
That is what defines a man and a woman biologically. 
Most humans born with male chromosomes are born with testes, and a penis. Therefore, a penis and testes is a good way to identify males. 
Most humans born with female chromosomes, are born with a uterus, and a vaginia. Therefore a uterus and vagina is a good way to identify females.

Some humans (less than 1% of the population) known as intersex, are sometimes born with confusing mixtures of organs, that don't line up with that persons chromosomal, and DNA biological sex. These are known as exceptions, but still can be identified as either male or female. 

So, in your mind, an individual that looks female, has functional female genitalia, a uterus, fallopian tubes, and... XY chromosomes is male?  I'm sure people with Swyer syndrome would disagree with that assessment.
Yep. And there are cases of this too. 
Look it up. 
ADreamOfLiberty
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@SkepticalOne
Scale is hardly relevant. If it's only one, but a right the laws are wrong. If it's a hundred thousand but abuse, the laws are right.
I agree. Any number of boys having their genitals mutilated (aka circumcized) without their consent is abhorrent. 
Somehow I doubt you believe that.

If chromosomes are absolute...how do you think intersex people exist? 
Why pretend this matters when the trans cult won't accept any biological standard whatsoever? It's a "social construct" [...] when it needs to be.
Sex is not a social construct and even it doesn't fit into nice neat binary categories. That's the point. 
It fits as well as anything non-abstract can. When we say humans are tetrapods we don't mean every human has four limbs or even was born with four limbs. This is a joke as old as classical philosophy.

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@sadolite
K then. And all this time I thought having an opposing view point meant I could have one without having my life destroyed.
Thats the beauty of democratic societies.

Remember that time when J.K. Rowling spoken something against changing the meaning of "woman"?

One must be very careful about what one says.

In democratic societies, sometimes instead of being arrested for having an opinion, you get financially punished for disagreeing with majority.

The financial punishment can destroy you, which ends up having the same effect of silencing as would a prison punishment have.

We are way past the point: "I disagree with what you say, but I would defend your right to say it".

USA still has little freedom of speech left, but in other countries, its gone. They already passed the laws on anti-free speech.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Sex is not a social construct and even it doesn't fit into nice neat binary categories. That's the point. 
It fits as well as anything non-abstract can. When we say humans are tetrapods we don't mean every human has four limbs or even was born with four limbs.
True. We also don't have legislation specifically targeting folks with less than 4 limbs. On the other hand, not fitting into the sex/gender binary is controversial (to say the least). 

I agree. Any number of boys having their genitals mutilated (aka circumcized) without their consent is abhorrent. 
Somehow I doubt you believe that.
It is not I who is being duplicitous. 
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@YouFound_Lxam
So, in your mind, an individual that looks female, has functional female genitalia, a uterus, fallopian tubes, and... XY chromosomes is male? [...]
Yep. [...]
By that reasoning, a male (your label) can become pregnant. I think your label is not reasonable, but I thank you for the clarification. 
Melcharaz
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but, what if i spiritually identify myself as a bride?
ADreamOfLiberty
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@SkepticalOne
Sex is not a social construct and even it doesn't fit into nice neat binary categories. That's the point. 
It fits as well as anything non-abstract can. When we say humans are tetrapods we don't mean every human has four limbs or even was born with four limbs.
True. We also don't have legislation specifically targeting folks with less than 4 limbs.
We would certainly need legislation if a group of surgeons were performing amputations as "acts of mercy". That would not be legislation "targeting amputees" it would be legislation to minimize amputees.

On the other hand, not fitting into the sex/gender binary is controversial (to say the least). 
No it isn't. None of the issues are about intersex, none of the issues are about people acting out different gender roles.

It's all about the notion that the 99% are obligated to change language, customs, education, and even dating habits to cater not to people with a natural deformity but to those who choose to deform themselves (or merely wish to).

If amputees insisted that they had different pronouns, were a new species, had a right to defecate on the street, asked children if they would be happier with fewer limbs, and had a band of so called doctors recommending amputation then the backlash and controversy would be identical or greater.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
We would certainly need legislation if a group of surgeons were performing amputations as "acts of mercy".
If experts in the appropriate fields determined less than 4 limbs makes person with BIID 'whole' (and that is what the patient wants), I would trust their judgement. That would ultimately be between the patient and their doctor. 

It's all about the notion that the 99% are obligated to change language, customs, education, and even dating habits to cater not to people with a natural deformity but to those who choose to deform themselves (or merely wish to).
First off, gender dysphoria is natural. Education about it is appropriate. As for the rest, no one is obligated. Everything is optional except for the consequences. 

If amputees insisted that they had different pronouns, were a new species, had a right to defecate on the street, asked children if they would be happier with fewer limbs
What a spectacular strawman.
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@SkepticalOne
By that reasoning, a male (your label) can become pregnant. I think your label is not reasonable, but I thank you for the clarification. 
I apologize, I failed to look at the wording you used in your post.
 
So, in your mind, an individual that looks female, has functional female genitalia, a uterus, fallopian tubes, and... XY chromosomes is male? [...]
This is not possible for a man to have reproductive properties but it is possible for them to be born with the genitalia of a woman. 
But it is extremely rare. 
ADreamOfLiberty
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@SkepticalOne
We would certainly need legislation if a group of surgeons were performing amputations as "acts of mercy".
If experts in the appropriate fields determined less than 4 limbs makes person with BIID 'whole' (and that is what the patient wants), I would trust their judgement. That would ultimately be between the patient and their doctor. 
Well if this sentence doesn't prove a point about left-tribe authority based epistemology nothing will.

First off, gender dysphoria is natural. Education about it is appropriate. As for the rest, no one is obligated. Everything is optional except for the consequences. 
rofl, ok well then the so called "obsession" with fake genitals, education, pronouns of the right-tribe are the "consequences".

If amputees insisted that they had different pronouns, were a new species, had a right to defecate on the street, asked children if they would be happier with fewer limbs
What a spectacular strawman.
What a mundane dodge. Analogies aren't strawmen.

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@ADreamOfLiberty
If experts in the appropriate fields determined less than 4 limbs makes person with BIID 'whole' (and that is what the patient wants), I would trust their judgement. That would ultimately be between the patient and their doctor. 
Well if this sentence doesn't prove a point about left-tribe authority based epistemology nothing will.
It proves nothing other than I personally defer to expertise rather than allow my views to be informed by ignorance. No shame here. 

Everything is optional except for the consequences. 
rofl, ok well then the so called "obsession" with fake genitals, education, pronouns of the right-tribe are the "consequences".
Im not sure what that is supposed to mean. I'm simply pointing out being a dick has negative consequences.

What a mundane dodge. Analogies aren't strawmen.
Non-analogous analogies are strawmen. Defecating in the street?! Seriously.  Gtfo here with that BS.
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@YouFound_Lxam
This is not possible for a man to have reproductive properties but it is possible for them to be born with the genitalia of a woman. 
Okay. I'm more confused as to how you determine sex. Is it chromosomes, genitalia, or something else?

So, in your mind, an individual that looks female, has functional female genitalia, a uterus, fallopian tubes, and... XY chromosomes is male? [...]
If I met this person on the street, chances are I'm not going to know their genitalia or their chromosomes. I will take cues from them as to what labels are appropriate. That's all we can do unless we are going to be super inappropriate or invasive. What's the problem with that?
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@SkepticalOne
It proves nothing other than I personally defer to expertise rather than allow my views to be informed by ignorance. No shame here. 
Neither shame nor an argument to address.

What a mundane dodge. Analogies aren't strawmen.
Non-analogous analogies are strawmen.
At worst they are bad analogies. A strawman requires a misrepresentation.

Defecating in the street?! Seriously.  Gtfo here with that BS.
You find that more disturbing than amputating the limbs of children? Hard to predict. Perhaps if an academy of sciences told you bathrooms were were inherently stressful to the claustrophobic?
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@oromagi
  • Yes, that's clear, and immediately raises the question about why aren't you getting your definitions from dictionaries?  Serious debaters use dictionaries so that everybody is talking about the same thing.  My definition of leftist comes from Wikipedia.  Your definition of leftist comes from Ben Shapiro.
I get my individual word definitions from dictionaries' like any other debater. I even provided you with a definition from Oxford Languages,  but you refuse to bring that up. I get the definitions of beliefs and ideologies from dictionary's as well as what I see that ideology pushing, supporting, or teaching in places like the media. But, if you would like, I can provide you a legitimate definition of the word Leftist, not from Wikipedia. 

Leftist: "a person with left-wing political views."
Left wing: "the section of a political party or system that advocates for greater social and economic equality, and typically favors socially liberal ideas; the liberal or progressive group or section."
Liberal: "relating to or denoting a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise."
Democrat: "a member of the Democratic Party."

Since the 1960s, the Democratic Party has been considered liberal and the Republican Party has been considered conservative.
(Oxford Languages). 

My definition does not come from any single person. Do not assume that I am unintelligent enough to only listen to 1 news station, 1 political speaker, 1 political party, etc. I listen to both sides of conversations. Then I ask myself, does this line up morally, and is it a good thing. If not, I am usually against it. If it is, then I am usually bipartisan, or for it. 

  • Look up the word CONFLATE on wiktionary.  It doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.  I think you are looking for some word more like "contradicts".  Likewise, Leftist doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.  Not all leftists are pro-abortion.  Not all abortion rights advocates are leftists.  Why not address the abortion rights advocates rather than swinging wide of target by addressing Leftists?
I misspelled the word conflicts with conflates. I know the difference, but I apologize for the confusion. 

I am addressing leftists, because these political and ideological ideas come from primarily the Democratic, Liberal, Leftist side of the political aisle. And I am well aware that not all Liberals believe in these ideological and political ideas. Take Bill Maher for example. He is a very big democrat, yet he very much disagrees with a lot of the things being pushed by the leftist media, and politicians right now. This is why I didn't say "All Leftists" in my title, I said Leftists, because that is where these ideas are coming from. I am not calling out every single, Leftist in existence. I am calling out the ones who defend, push and belief in these insane ideology's. Don't assume I am addressing all Leftists, because at this point you are still playing with word choice and definitions. You don't have a solid argument. Your only argument is that I am not using the correct grammar and definitions, which is still false. 

  • I turned on age restrictions but I was still able to access everything on the Daily Wire.  I can't  confirm that such a restriction exists.  I believe you are under the age of restriction yourself and yet you seem to have access to the site as well.  Am I missing something?
Sure. Let me explain.
Platform like Youtube have a habit of censoring, or age restricting videos without any reason for it. Now this might be a bug, but it does seem to target people who generally talk about right wing opinions, and things of that manner. This includes the Daily Wire, because they do post on Youtube and other platforms, to grow their fanbase even larger. Videos of Daily Wire cast members on Youtube, promoting right wing ideas and opinions usually get age restricted, not all, but some. 

Now I wouldn't consider this a big deal, given that Youtube is it's own platform and has the right to take down whatever they please, but what I do find a big deal is that while those videos are getting age restricted, the kids videos on Youtube kids are teaching kids how to consent, showing kids videos promoting, suicidal themes, sexual themes, and LGBT indoctrination. Those videos are not only not taken down, but they aren't even age restricted, and what's worse is that it is on Youtube Kids. 

The Daily WIre has been caught printing a lot of fake news, especially regarding the election, the pandemic, climate change.  I hope you are expanding your research to less motivated, more rigorously fact based sources, as well.
Biased, or fake? And if so, give me one exact time that they have published fake news, and not apologized or corrected themselves on. 
I don't just watch the Daily Wire, I also do extensive research on other platforms and websites. 

But I could also call out so many Liberal news outlets and sources that print fake news, including left-wing political leaders, lying about January 6th and what actually happened, Covid-19 and its origin, the climate crisis, and more, CNN, being one of them. 

I have met a few women who have suggested that only women should vote on abortion.  I have never met any American who in serious debate would argue that a fellow American does not have a right to any opinion.  This is an obvious falsehood and a  misrepresentation of Leftism.
I have met many people, and watched many people who have claimed that men shouldn't have an opinion on abortion, because they can't get pregnant. Then they go back and say men definitely can get pregnant. It's not a falsehood or misrepresentation of Leftism. Many leftist spokespersons, have said this in court, and to Congress. 

If you are saying that you can't find a single poltician who identifiies as Leftist and is recorded saying that only people with uteruses may have an opinion on abortion than you are conceding your point as lacking evicence.
I am not saying that, I am saying that no single politician has said this, but the culture has. America is run by its people, therefore it's peoples opinion is part of the political ideology. A politician doesn't have to say it, in order for it to be part of the ideology. There are many examples of leftists identifying people, who believe that men shouldn't have an opinion on abortion, and a lot of them agree with each other on this premise. 

If you're thinking well, there's people on the Internet who call themselves leftists and express some similar opinion than that's no kind of evidence at all.  That could be a Russian Agent or an 8 year old or  you, inventing evidence- whatever. 
Ok, what?
And you call us the conspiracy theorists. 
Yea, Russian agents are creating evidence, of people saying certain people can't have an opinion on their certain topic, because that will do...…..what exactly?

 You need to find a bunch of real live Leftists who make the argument you claim they make.  If you can't do that then you had no basis to make the claim to begin with.
Literally search up leftist arguemnts for abortions, and many youtube videos you can find of self proclaimed liberals, saying that men shouldn't have an opinion on abortion.
It's not that hard. 

All in all, you still haven't explained my basic premis, in my first post. All you have done is try to attack my deffinitinos of who is saying this. You aren't actually debating the topic here. 
So please I still wait for a responce to my quesion.