How to read the Bible - Guide for beginners

Author: Best.Korea

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hey-yo
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@Stephen
Wow thanks. I never knew how to direct someone to an exact post before. Here


Post number 59 I gave a response. 

Jesus or God did not refuse Jesus. Jesus said let your WILL be done. Jesus/God/both pertained thr WILL to be cruxified. They didnt even need to. Technically. Salvation can look like anything but by choice, God choose to humble Himself to the lowest point a human could experience. To demonstrate His love. 

Well Im sure you may complain about it but thats ok. 
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@hey-yo
God choose to humble Himself to the lowest point a human could experience. To demonstrate His love. 
This is pretty confusing too, given that there were literally no stakes for the main character at all. It's not really humbling yourself if it's just pure theater. 
hey-yo
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Here again you are not reading your bible. God didn't say anything after the test, it was the angel.
Sin seperates us from God. Hearing God's voice seems to deminish for Abraham later in his life as well. Angels visit more later on. 
Anyway. I think I have done this conversation to death. My point was Abraham didn't challenge god on this occasion, and that the test was a test of his fear of god, the ANGEL makes that clear enough. And a pointless test at that considering you have told us all that "god knows what is in our hearts".  
Where is Abraham's heart explained in bible? 
Melcharaz
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@ludofl3x
thats a matter of perspective.
if you were predestined by God to enter heaven, yet you still had to be tempted, mocked, hurt, betrayed and killed. would you say your life is pure theater?
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@ludofl3x
given that there were literally no stakes for the main character at all
Stakes are irrelevant to being humble. One can be humble even when nothing is at stake.
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@Melcharaz
if you were predestined by God to enter heaven, yet you still had to be tempted, mocked, hurt, betrayed and killed. would you say your life is pure theater?
Uh, yes. What's the point of everything after the comma in your sentence, if it doesn't change my outcome? Who does it benefit? If I'm predestined to enter heaven, it makes so much more sense to skip everything after the comma and just create me in heaven, doesn't it?

One can be humble even when nothing is at stake.
I disagree, but ok. The whole Easter story makes no sense to me in any way, maybe I just was a terrible Catholic. 
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@Best.Korea
One can be humble even when nothing is at stake.
I disagree, but ok. The whole Easter story makes no sense to me in any way, maybe I just was a terrible Catholic. 
Sorry, forgot to tag you. 
hey-yo
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@ludofl3x
Who is to say it is pure theater? I was saying that there could have been other means to supply the same result.

However, in context, Jesus is nailed to the Cross. Death and all sin is nailed to the Cross as well. Mercy bleeds out as a God who is the ultimate Martyr for the people, turns victimization into glorification and achievement. What is highlighted at the time as a loss becomes a gain.  

There is a message in the cruxifixation itself that is not demonstrated in other relgions that often tell us we should not be weak, meek, giving, loving to our enemy, etc. 

What do you mean by no stakes in the main character? Who is refered to as main character? 
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@hey-yo
Who is to say it is pure theater? I was saying that there could have been other means to supply the same result.
Agree on the last part. The whole torture porn / long weekend combo is senseless, when whatever it's supposed to signify has so many more sensible resolutions, if you believe in that sort of thing. In short, the guy is mad at people he made, who do exactly what he planned for them to do, so he punishes generations and generations of more people for stuff they didn't do, but more stuff that he's mad at because of rules he set up, so he decides the best way to resolve all this is somehow to become a person and get crucified, knowing that as an eternal all powerful something, he's really in no danger at all. So instead of saying "Wow, I fucked this whole thing up, I literally have every option available, including deleting people and literally changing the way their minds work. Could I  just, say, remove the whole condition of death? Should I maybe re-examine why I think every person I made is a total piece of shit, like maybe it's something I wrote into the code. Does it say more about ME, that I'm getting so mad at this stuff? Maybe I can get a look at some of these rules they're having such a hard time with, is it possible I'm being too strict? I mean I did write don't think about fucking your neighbor's wife, but then I also gave people this like CRAZY sex drive, what was I thinking? Is the penalty for taking my name in vain, whatever that means really, is that REALLY eternal damnation? Hm. Let's workshop this, I mean I made a whole universe, these little tweaks are nothing to me!"

What God decided was "You know what I'll do? Go get tortured and crucified, pretend to be dead, then maybe appear to a few people, like a dozen, give or take. That will send a vague and highly disputed message to a very small number of people...that's definitely more my style." 
Melcharaz
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@ludofl3x
you are disregarding the experiences as part of the process to get into heaven.

its easy to not think of pain as learning to lean on God, ignored as learning to cry out to God, betrayed as learning to love God, blessed as learning to appreciate God. etc

the thing about being predestined is that just because you know the end result, you dont know what it means or took to get you there.
im going to assume you have read a book before. Did you guess the ending before you reached it? if so, did knowing the ending make the book less enjoyable?

likewise, Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith.
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@Melcharaz
you are disregarding the experiences as part of the process to get into heaven.
Yes, because that experience is meaningless if I'm pre-destined to get into heaven. If I'm going there anyway, literally everything else, the pain, the suffering, the crying out to god, it's theater, apparently for god's entertainment I guess. That's what theater is. If I'm pre-destined to get into heaven and I never learn about appreciating god and I STILL GET IN, then all that experience isn't for anyone's benefit. 

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@ludofl3x
no, the experiences are for YOUR benefit. in learning the evils of sin, you appreciate and love the lack of it even more.

reality is written a certain way. if you want to think beyond its precepts and laws, its thought experiment only. making no impact on you unless you try to DO something regarding them.
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if you wish to work with the laws, i will try to explain God's nature and why they are, and the axioms of it.

if not, you are just entertaining notions that you cannot have faith in. as no human has entered heaven without pain.
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@Melcharaz
no, the experiences are for YOUR benefit. in learning the evils of sin, you appreciate and love the lack of it even more.
Why do I need to learn this? It's not to get into heaven, I'm already going. Just create me in heaven and implant all the appreciation you want if it's that important to god, right? 

The predestination part of it makes all my suffering meaningless, merely there for someone's entertainment. I'm not sure how this is escaping you, but it's why predestination never took off and became huge. It's not the sort of thing that drives dollars into coffers, if god's already decided, then do what you want, you don't need to go to church anyway since god never changes his mind. 

.if you wish to work with the laws, i will try to explain God's nature and why they are, and the axioms of it.
Why should I believe what you say? I'm pretty sure I have a handle on the character's nature in the book, but it's pretty audacious to say you can explain WHY god does things. I thought the bible said it was a sin to think you know the ways of the lord, his works are mysteries. Ballsy! 
Stephen
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@hey-yo




Jesus or God did not refuse Jesus. Jesus said let your WILL be done. Jesus/God/both pertained the WILL to be cruxified.
Make up your mind.
You have categorically told us that Jesus "IS" god. You said this because I had said to you that Jesus' begging and praying  to his "father" to be relieved of his burden were totally ignored.  FFS keep up.

 You then wrote:
ey-yo wrote:   "A. Jesus is God, so God did not "refuse" Himself".#54

But if as you say- Jesus "IS" god, then he refused and ignored himself. 

What's more, I asked you further if  according to YOU that with Jesus also being god,  why would A GOD need and underling subordinate to strengthen him. As the scripture clearly states?
"Then an angel from heaven appeared and strengthened him." Luke 22:43


 You have had three stabs at trying to explain this  away and failed every time.

Go away, you are as thick  as that cretin the Reverend Tradesecret. He also makes shite up and contradicts himself when caught on the back foot after painting himself into a corner.

Melcharaz
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@ludofl3x
actually the opposite is true. one of God's chief complaints in scripture is that people dont know him.

and i offer a perspective that is unique. As i have the Spirit of God in me. The Holy Spirit. therefore the insights i can offer are much more... personal and intimately connected than you have by observation.

think of it this way.
you see a man shopping.
you ask his wife of 20 years what her husband thinks about shopping.
ludofl3x
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@Melcharaz
 one of God's chief complaints in scripture is that people dont know him.
Hm, if only there was some way for god to let people get to know him. He must have a lot of obstacles in his way that he can't figure out how to get around. If I wanted more people to get to know me, maybe my best course of action is leaving scant evidence I ever existed then moving to a mountaintop and never coming down. 


and i offer a perspective that is unique. As i have the Spirit of God in me. The Holy Spirit. therefore the insights i can offer are much more... personal and intimately connected than you have by observation.
I'm vaguely creeped out by this. 
Melcharaz
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@ludofl3x
it seems to me you have no desire to know God. That is your choice of course.

but if you are a person of integrity, do not ever mock God or question his ways again. as the knowledge was offered to you, but you rejected it. Making yourself willfully ignorant.
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@Melcharaz
but if you are a person of integrity, do not ever mock God or question his ways again.
I consider myself a person of integrity. What happens if I do mock or question his ways again, exactly? 

Like what if I were to say your god can suck a ton of camel dicks because he's a freaky weirdo who is obsessed with all the people he has to watch jerking off all the time. What now? 

Here I thought we were going to have a productive conversation. Go fuck yourself, you phony hardass. 
Stephen
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@ludofl3x
#139Go fuck yourself, you phony hardass. 

 I couldn't have put that better myself ludo.  10/10
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@ludofl3x
what will happen is the same thing that will happen to all. Judgement.
God is very merciful, thats why judgement isnt immediate.
as you read this, you are learning about God's nature wether you wanted to or not. are you angry that i violated your predestined ideas of choice? there is much to learn of what God is. And that he overides the supposed concept of freewill.
ludofl3x
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@Melcharaz
what will happen is the same thing that will happen to all. Judgement.
So, nothing on earth, excellent. I'll go on about my business, thanks. 

God is very merciful, thats why judgement isnt immediate.
Maybe he's just a pussy? Because that sounds like something a pussy would say / not do, when they're being mocked. 
Melcharaz
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@Stephen
I couldn't have put that better myself ludo.  10/10
are you confessing he is smarter than you?
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@ludofl3x
actually, on earth as well. The thing about mocking and rejecting God is that evil more slowly accumulates in the persons life. They become miserable, their choices go toward an addictive nature where they eventually make their lifestyle revolved around pleasures that require more and more effort to satisfy.
the heart becomes harder, the emotions more distant, soon, not even loved ones affect them as much.
like a revolving door, so becomes their emotions and choices, revolving around the object of addiction, until all that remains is pleasure or apathy, rarely anything more.
this, is a type of death, slow, creeping and terrible.
and other things will happen as well, i dont have time to explain the myriads of evils.

mercy is what keeps all of humanity alive, it and God's grace working in humans is what keeps them from doing even greater evils. imagine the worst thing you can... that, is tame compared to the evils that could be done every day, if not for God's mercy.
Stephen
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Stephen wrote: I couldn't have put that better myself ludo.  10/10
Melcharaz, wrote: are you confessing he [Lodo flx3]is smarter than you?

Well he did realise that you were a phoney before I did. So yes, Ludo is definitely smarter than me.

Maybe it was that he has had more contact with you than I have.

Off you go now, thicko.

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@Stephen
i dont believe he and i had much contact at all, i dont even remember him to be honest and i never blocked him.

in what way do you think i am a phoney? in what way do you think im a thicko? whatever that means.
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@Melcharaz
Noted, I'll take my chances. 
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@ludofl3x
its not a chance. it is promised. It will happen, unless you repent of course. Then, things will get better.

i can tell you the benefits of serving God, since i already told you the detriments of opposing him.

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@Melcharaz
I'm good, thanks, as it seems like based on your current arguments there's not a lot for you to present. I don't really want to spend time reading a bunch of some other guy's fantasies. 
Melcharaz
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@ludofl3x
if what i say comes to pass, then its not a fantasy.
you know i am right about the evil of cursing God, you see the addictions present in your life.
what if i am right about the benefits?