Gay Mafia DP1

Author: PREZ-HILTON

Posts

Read-only
Total: 305
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,159
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Mharman
What makes you less confident (from what I can tell) in the idea that B.K is scum?
I’m not less confident. At this point I’m more confident that he’s scum based on his reply to me. The fact that he posted a link to MafiaScum roles as a response to my ask if him elaborating on which roles are desirable is extremely suspicious.

Here are key things I noticed while re-reading.

First off, his interactions scream a veteran player, especially towards Lunatic. The fact he’s going after a big fish early on (we know Lunatic is a great player) shows he’s confident. It’s almost as if he’s done before.

Second, he claims that he has read past games but doesn’t clarify which ones, yet he makes the numbers mistake. In every game I’ve played, I have or someone else has laid the numbers argument out. He missed this in every game he looked at? I don’t buy it at all, especially coming from someone who has veteran interactions.

Third, he was quick to cite MafiaScum. Logically, if a new player were to look at past games, they would look at the Guide created by our very own Earth or even look at the roles that Supa posted. Instead he goes straight to MafiaScum. This means one of two things, he’s lying to us about being a noob cause he’s played on other cites before, or his partner gave him the MafiaScum link. It was a simple question really, which roles are more desirable over others. Cop, Doctor, Tracker, etc would all have been fine.

ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,159
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Best.Korea
Your question was: "Could you elaborate".

I dont really see what I need to elaborate.
It’s a simple question: which roles are more desirable than others?
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,159
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Mharman
You’re my top town read at the moment. You said Badger was POE scum, but I think behaviorally he’s also scum. I seem to recall in his game as scum, he kept flipping votes everywhere to see what would stick. I could be wrong but I’ll do some research
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,159
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@AustinL0926
Cuz it was in the Hall of Fame.
Reasonable answer.

I think you’re the perfect contrast to BK. You’re what I would expect a noob to do ideally. You looked at past games. You looked at the mafia guide. That’s exactly what I would expect someone with minimal experience to do.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,638
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@ILikePie5
The fact that he posted a link to MafiaScum roles as a response to my ask if him elaborating on which roles are desirable is extremely suspicious.
The link is about roles, and which ones are common.

they would look at the Guide created by our very own Earth or even look at the roles that Supa posted
I did check supa's link. The roles supa posted is what confused me. There were too many of them.
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,159
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Best.Korea
The link is about roles, and which ones are common.
Common =/= desirable…

I did check supa's link. The roles supa posted is what confused me. There were too many of them.
So you didn’t look at Earth’s guide and you found the MafiaScum guide as not too many roles?
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,638
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@ILikePie5
Common =/= desirable…
As I said, its about roles. You can figure out which ones are desirable from their description.

So you didn’t look at Earth’s guide and you found the MafiaScum guide as not too many roles?
I did take a look at Earth's guide. It didnt help me understand anything, so I didnt come back to it.
AustinL0926
AustinL0926's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,185
3
5
9
AustinL0926's avatar
AustinL0926
3
5
9
As far as I can tell, the two mafias are perhaps:

  • Pie and Mharman, teaming together to frame Korea (certainly possible, especially considering they're veterans)
  • Korea and Badger, who have had a suspicious lack of direct interaction - Korea is also dodging a lot of questions
  • Lunatic and Korea? Notice how they came to completely opposite conclusions for me, perhaps to show that they're not on the same team


AustinL0926
AustinL0926's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,185
3
5
9
AustinL0926's avatar
AustinL0926
3
5
9
Although I think that Korea's behavior is suspicious, I also think that we might be tunneling on him too hard for what is a fairly trivial point.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,638
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
Second, he claims that he has read past games but doesn’t clarify which ones, yet he makes the numbers mistake.
Do I need to clarify which ones? I see that I made a mistake of even mentioning how I learned the basics of game. And I dont remember what "numbers mistake" I made. I merely suggested that this could be "5 - 3" or "5 - 2 - 1", due to the secret of set up.
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,159
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Best.Korea
As I said, it’s about roles. You can figure out which ones are desirable from their description.
I already know which ones are desirable. I’m asking you…

I did take a look at Earth's guide. It didnt help me understand anything, so I didnt come back to it.
Interesting, cause Earth also has roles listed on his guide. Earths roles meant nothing but MafiaScum did? 
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,638
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@ILikePie5
Interesting, cause Earth also has roles listed on his guide. Earths roles meant nothing but MafiaScum did?
Making a guide that has too much unknown words without clear definitions is not suitable for a new player who never played mafia or any other forum game.
As I said, I only understood the basics of game when I asked AI.
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,243
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
Ok I expect I have misread here at this point. 
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,159
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Best.Korea
Making a guide that has too much unknown words without clear definitions is not suitable for a new player who never played mafia or any other forum game.
As I said, I only understood the basics of game when I asked AI.
It seems really clear to me. And again, your interactions don’t square with the fact that you’re a noob
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,243
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
I'm gonna just out my reads at this point.

Towniest

Mhar/Supa
BK
Pie
Earth
Lunatic
Austin

Mafia

I'm just realling TR'ing Supa's whole vibe. Same for Mhar with that one big post.

BK could be mafia, but I doubt it. He's far too composed. Pie's whole Mafiascum angle is just a bit silly.

Earth big null, but I was POE'ing hard.

Lunatic. No TR. Really can see him having voted his partner at beginning of game.

Austin. I'm down for a claim here at this point. 

I dunno, Pie petitioning Mhar as his biggest townread to put a push back on me read very town. Austin feels like he's posting a lot and adding nothing. Not that I expect him to add anything, but these "currently" posts really are ugly. Anyone else would just change their vote, not announce to the town that they're debating changing their vote. That telegraphing just reads wrong, as if afraid a sudden switch will draw attention. 
AustinL0926
AustinL0926's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,185
3
5
9
AustinL0926's avatar
AustinL0926
3
5
9
-->
@badger
What do you mean by "down for a claim?"
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,243
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
-->
@AustinL0926
Eventually all votes are going to pile on someone and they'll have to claim their character/role. 
AustinL0926
AustinL0926's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,185
3
5
9
AustinL0926's avatar
AustinL0926
3
5
9
-->
@badger
Austin feels like he's posting a lot and adding nothing. Not that I expect him to add anything, but these "currently" posts really are ugly. Anyone else would just change their vote, not announce to the town that they're debating changing their vote. That telegraphing just reads wrong, as if afraid a sudden switch will draw attention. 
That's literally selection bias... If I did change my vote, you would accuse me of trying to lynch people until something stuck. If I don't change my vote but noted that I might (as I did), you accused me of "telegraphing." If I didn't change my vote, then you would probably accuse me of ignoring evidence.

For the record, I do find it pretty suspicious that every single post you've made has been trying to lynch some random person. 
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,638
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
My summary on this

At start, badger voted to lynch lunatic, so I did too to see a reaction.

Lunatic accused new players of being scums and vtl austin, also says "new players arent new".

Mhar starts defending new players, but just a couple of comments later changes story completely to opposite.

Pie votes to lynch me, makes a comment about Wylted "labeling me as new" being suspicious.

Supa also claims wylted is playing tricks and that I am not a new player. Later, Supa claimed that he didnt say how I wasnt new. However, he did in post 37, 38 and 40.

Pie asks me to tell him what I know about mafia. I assume he is trying to revive the topic "new players arent new".
I clearly told him that reading older games and guides got me confused. He questions this by saying "it doesnt seem confusing to me". This is an example of false logic, because "it is not confusing to person A" does not mean "it is not confusing to person B". I already explained that too much unknown terms were used. Plus, he assumed I dedicated myself to reading guides when I already explained to him at the start that AI browser explains things much better than any guide.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,638
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
Now when I read the thread over, I noticed something that I missed before. It seems that 5 players were focused on attacking new players. Before, I read the union of 3 as "scum union" and assumed that at least one of them has to be scum pushing the topic.

But now, it is clear that being paranoid about new players is not an isolated case.

This makes things difficult. With 5 players focusing on me and austin, it is quite possible that 2 out of 5 are scum. But then again, this situation is strange. Usually, town players should not pile quickly on topic that already has 2-3 supporters. So this is either town playing extremely stupid, either last 2 players to pile on such topic are scums.
"Earth and pie" or "earth and supa" seems possible scum combo, but if they are town then they are playing extremely bad.

Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,638
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
unvote
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,638
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
What I am seeing right now is:

There were 2 topics:

1) "new players are scum"

2) "suspicious union against new players".

The fact that 5 players decided to pile on topic 1, but not on topic 2, could tell us that the scum is likely among those 5 players.
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,243
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
Ok Austin is reading pretty town again. It's TUF for me. 

Busy atm though. 
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,159
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Best.Korea

Pie asks me to tell him what I know about mafia. I assume he is trying to revive the topic "new players arent new".
You clearly aren’t new lol. All the veterans including myself have seen noob play. You are far from it. The question is why exactly.

I clearly told him that reading older games and guides got me confused. He questions this by saying "it doesnt seem confusing to me". This is an example of false logic, because "it is not confusing to person A" does not mean "it is not confusing to person B". I already explained that too much unknown terms were used.
What was unclear to you? You can make the claim all you want, but you have to provide examples. Earth explains terms painstakingly in his guide. 

Here is some things I’m talking about:

Band-wagon: The band-wagon is simply the player who is receiving the strongest voting attention at any given time. If you ‘jump on the bandwagon' is generally means you're simply voting for a player because other players are voting that way. This can be considered a scum-tell.

Tunneling: Tunnelling is a problem to be avoided. It means focusing on a player to the point of ignoring other things which might be going on within the game.

Lurking: Lurking simply means avoiding drawing attention to yourself but not participating in the mafia thread.

Pressuring: Pressuring means voting for a player without the express purpose of having that person lynched. Pressure is usually used to get information out of players, particularly claims.
That explanation is objectively clear as day. The fact that you couldn’t understand it is weird. You said you used an AI to understand, but you have provided no outputs of what the AI said as evidence that it is easier to understand. Keep in mind the guide was specifically designed to help noobs.

Plus, he assumed I dedicated myself to reading guides when I already explained to him at the start that AI browser explains things much better than any guide.
You said you read the guides but didn’t understand anything, and THEN you went to the AI.

All I’m wondering is what was unclear to you from the guide and what did the AI say?
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,159
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@AustinL0926
You read the guides. Was there anything unclear? I’m genuinely wondering 
AustinL0926
AustinL0926's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,185
3
5
9
AustinL0926's avatar
AustinL0926
3
5
9
-->
@ILikePie5
Not really.

The role guide wasn't super helpful, since it was just a giant list of roles.

The forum guide was good - it was a clear, simple introduction to how forum mafia worked.
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,159
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@AustinL0926
Not really.

The role guide wasn't super helpful, since it was just a giant list of roles.
Ya it’s mainly there for people to find fake claims.

The forum guide was good - it was a clear, simple introduction to how forum mafia worked. 
This is what I was talking about.
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,159
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
I’ll do a vote count in a bit to see how many more votes BK needs for us to pressure him to full claim
AustinL0926
AustinL0926's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,185
3
5
9
AustinL0926's avatar
AustinL0926
3
5
9
-->
@badger
Ok Austin is reading pretty town again. It's TUF for me. 
Honestly... this only makes me more suspicious of you. I pushed back aggressively because I wanted to see how you would react. I find it strange you would drop it so quickly if you were suspicious of me, since you would get a similar response from either town or scum.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,638
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@ILikePie5
You clearly aren’t new lol. All the veterans including myself have seen noob play. You are far from it.
Well, are we supposed to trust that "seeing noob play" translates to "knowing how every noob plays"?

I am aggressive in this game, yes. I will go after anyone I suspect. It does not mean I am an experienced player.