They came up with a "new" definition of the word Woman.

Author: YouFound_Lxam

Posts

Total: 120
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
It's simple really. If a dictionary has the ability to change the definition of words that we use everyday, then how can we function as a rational society. By that logic the constitution could play into whatever you want the law to be, just based on a couple of simple definition changes. That is how it takes away freedom and rights. And guess where it has happened? Cambridge Dictionary....just a couple of months ago.  
Can you think of any other words that had their definition change or evolve over time? Did it destroy society?

Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,260
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
No, gender has everything to do with science. It is based in biology. It is not a social construct. It is how people identify, based on their biological sex. 
No, that’s what you base it on.

Biological sex is a matter of fact which we look to science to define. Gender is a human construct no matter how much you pretend it isn’t. Science has nothing to do with whether one prefers to be called a him or a her, whether one should wear Timberlands or a dress, or whether one should pursue a career as a seamstress or a construction worker. We invented all of that, and that is all part of the conversation with regards to gender.

What the political right does is just pretend that the way we’ve always thought of gender is the only way to think about it, and then by extension pretend that when other people talk about it they’re using words in the same way you are. That’s just plain stupid.

If you want to have a conversation with someone else you have to begin by understanding what they mean when they use certain terms. That’s common sense. People who are experiencing and/or advocating for those going through gender dysphoria are talking about all of this is a very different way. If you’re going to criticize it the least you can do is make an effort to understand what others are talking about.

And your right, it isn't and shouldn't be complicated, but the left and the LGBTQ+ community has made it just that.
Well I’m so sorry for you that there are people out there who don’t fit neatly into your little boxes for what you think gender is supposed to be. I know it can feel daunting having to expand your thinking about an issue you’d rather leave alone, but those people are out there regardless of whether you want them to be or not.

If you don’t care about these people or just don’t care enough to learn about where they are coming from that’s fine. Just admit that and move on. But stop pretending that they and those who advocate for them don’t understand science or whatever other ridiculous straw man you are trying to push.
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,074
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@IwantRooseveltagain
What do we call a woman that can't bear children.

Barren.

Infertile.

Kylie.


Similarly, a man that cannot produce sperm could be called.

Infertile.

Dave.

Numbnuts.


And courts make rulings,

And conservatives obviously feel the need to be conservative. (The clue's in the name).

And marriage is a made up thing.


So if Dave married Kylie they could breed Shih-tzu's and live happily ever after.


Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
They came up with a "new" definition of the word Woman.

It is the only way that the left wing idiots believe they can win an argument. Christians do exactly the same.
The left wing bell ends invent "new" words too, such as the non word "islamophobia". 
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,920
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@Lemming
What a cr@p definition of woman

Lem, I agree, Woman is short for person with a womb and that most often requires and X x combination. y chromosomes to dont have genetics for womb is my best guess.

A womb often includes egg/ovum producing capabilities.

Womb/uterus, fallopian tubes gg/ovum (o)...... <---spermazoa, testes, prostate gland

Hermphrodites/inter-sex of course complicate the above two sets
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@TheUnderdog
Woman: Anyone that is a cis woman or trans woman
That is a circular definition. Don't use the word woman, to define the word woman. It's simple English really.



YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
You realize there are many women who can’t bare offspring or produce eggs. right? What do we call those people?

This came up in the Supreme Court case for gay marriage when conservatives tried to argue that the purpose of marriage was for procreation.
It's really simple. 

The definition of a woman is a biological adult human female. It's not that complicated. 

Can you think of any other words that had their definition change or evolve over time? Did it destroy society?
Of course, the way words have been used has changed, but this definition goes against basic biology, and gender itself. If the definition of a word goes against biology, then why in the world are we accepting that?


Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,352
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@ebuc
There 'are biological exceptions,
And theoretically possible alterations to humans using science, (In future)
And I suppose a society 'could allow men and women to dress as, call as, act as the opposite sex,

But dress, act, and call all one likes,
Biological norm would be the truth.
From my perspective anyhow.
Males and females possess differences.
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
-->
@YouFound_Lxam

The definition of a woman is a biological adult human female. It's not that complicated. 
You were the one that defined a woman as someone who can produce an offspring. Now after telling Underdog not to use woman in the definition of a woman you are defining a woman as female. That’s brilliant 


YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@Double_R
No, that’s what you base it on.

Biological sex is a matter of fact which we look to science to define. Gender is a human construct no matter how much you pretend it isn’t. Science has nothing to do with whether one prefers to be called a him or a her, whether one should wear Timberlands or a dress, or whether one should pursue a career as a seamstress or a construction worker. We invented all of that, and that is all part of the conversation with regards to gender.
No, it's what humans have based it on through all of human history up until now. To assume that gender is a human construct, is to assume that there are more than 2 genders, and that proposal cannot be argued thoroughly or good in any way. 


What the political right does is just pretend that the way we’ve always thought of gender is the only way to think about it....
So, everyone through human history is part of the political right?


 and then by extension pretend that when other people talk about it, they’re using words in the same way you are. That’s just plain stupid.
So, by that logic, everyone can use the same words to mean different things, and then society falls. 
It would be like this:
One person thinks the word firetruck, means car crash, and the other person thinks it is a truck that puts out fires. 
With logic like this, the world couldn't go round. 
This logic is plain stupid. 

If you want to have a conversation with someone else you have to begin by understanding what they mean when they use certain terms. That’s common sense. People who are experiencing and/or advocating for those going through gender dysphoria are talking about all of this is a very different way. If you’re going to criticize it the least you can do is make an effort to understand what others are talking about.
There is a difference between having preferences, and thinking words are different. If I want to have a conversation with someone who uses different definitions, then I couldn't have any conversation at all. 

It would be like me trying to talk to someone, but they believe that the word love means hate. So, am I just supposed to say love for hate for just that specific person? Then the media and news would be screwed, because they can't keep tabs on what everyone thinks. 
As a functioning society, we have to have the same basic understanding of the English language, or else no one will understand what anyone else is saying. 

To assume that others look at words differently, and we should submit to those terms, is exactly how you let a controlling government take power. 



YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
You were the one that defined a woman as someone who can produce an offspring. Now after telling Underdog not to use woman in the definition of a woman you are defining a woman as female. That’s brilliant 
You need to work on your English. The word female and woman are different. 

Woman is the identity.
Female is the biological aspect. 

I am saying that identifying as a woman, is the same as being a biological female. 

IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Woman is the identity.
Female is the biological aspect. 
you just undermined your own argument with this statement genius. 

TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
That is a circular definition. Don't use the word woman, to define the word woman. It's simple English really.
I can define the word, “Dakotas” with North and South Dakota.  That is using the word Dakota to define the term, “Dakotas”.
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
you just undermined your own argument with this statement genius. 
I'm not arguing that gender identity doesn't exist, because of course it exists. 
I am arguing that gender identity only applies to the sex that you are born with. 

Of course, there are masculine girls and feminine men, but they are all still men and woman, regardless of how they feel. 
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@TheUnderdog
I can define the word, “Dakotas” with North and South Dakota.  That is using the word Dakota to define the term, “Dakotas”.
If I asked you:
What are the Dakotas?
Then you would answer:
North and South Dakota

All I am gaining from that definition is that there is a north and south Dakota. That doesn't define what the Dakotas are. Just that there is a north and south version of it. 
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
How would you define the Dakotas without using the term, “Dakota” then?  The only alternative definition I can think of are 2 states between various other states and provinces.  But if you define these states and provinces, you end up using the term Dakota in that definition.

The only alternative to the best of my knowledge is realizing that you don’t have to define every subsequent term to define the term you were originally trying to define.  


K_Michael
K_Michael's avatar
Debates: 38
Posts: 749
4
5
10
K_Michael's avatar
K_Michael
4
5
10
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
They came up with a "new" definition of the word Woman.
If you disagree with this, shouldn't the word 'definition' be in quotes? Putting 'new' in quotes merely implies that this definition isn't new, which while true, seems antithetical to your actual stance.
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@TheUnderdog
How would you define the Dakotas without using the term, “Dakota” then?  The only alternative definition I can think of are 2 states between various other states and provinces.  But if you define these states and provinces, you end up using the term Dakota in that definition.

The only alternative to the best of my knowledge is realizing that you don’t have to define every subsequent term to define the term you were originally trying to define.  
No, I could define Dakotas right now:

Two states in the USA, that was named by a member of an Indigenous people of the northern Mississippi River valley. 




zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,074
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Not really indigenous.

Just earlier Asian migrants.

Depends where you choose to start the migration clock.
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,920
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@Lemming
I agree Lem. Word woman is of anglo-saxon origin as many of our words we use today.

1} Etymology. From Middle English womman, wimman, wifman, from Old English wīfmann (“woman”, literally “female person”), a compound of wīf (“woman, female”, whence English wife) +‎ mann (“person, human being”, whence English man).

2} Etymology. From Middle English wombe, wambe, from Old English womb, wamb (“belly, stomach; bowels; heart; womb; hollow”), from Proto-West Germanic *wambu, from Proto-Germanic *wambō (“belly, stomach, abdomen”).

Anglo-saxxon England was middle ages aka dark ages. 1066 > 410 AD

See Free on Roku channel Hidden Lost Hidden Treasures.... the Sutton Hoo story of buried Saxon kings boat and treasures found in 1939 with lots historical information for that period of time.

.."The Saxons (Latin: Saxones, German: Sachsen, Old English: Seaxan, Old Saxon: Sahson, Low German: Sassen, Dutch: Saksen) were a group of Germanic[1] peoples whose name was given in the early Middle Ages to a large country (Old Saxony, Latin: Saxonia) near the North Sea coast of northern Germania, in what is now Germany.[2] In the late Roman Empire, the name was used to refer to Germanic coastal raiders, and as a name similar to the later "Viking".[3] Their origins are believed to be in or near the German North Sea coast where they appear later, in Carolingian times. In Merovingian times, continental Saxons had been associated with the activity and settlements on the coast of what later became Normandy. Their precise origins are uncertain,"
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Two states in the USA, that was named by a member of an Indigenous people of the northern Mississippi River valley. 
Doesn’t Nebraska also fall under that definition as well?  I don’t know too much about Native American history.
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,260
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
No, it's what humans have based it on through all of human history up until now. 
Humans also thought slavery was ok for most of human history, until we realized it wasn’t. Our previous usage of gender is irrelevant to what makes sense now.
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,260
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
To assume that gender is a human construct, is to assume that there are more than 2 genders, and that proposal cannot be argued thoroughly or good in any way. 
If it’s a human construct then there is no “correct” way for us to interpret it. It’s up to us to decide that, that’s what this conversation is about.

So, everyone through human history is part of the political right?
Political right and left are sides based on society’s issues. This hasn’t been an issue till now, so no.

So, by that logic, everyone can use the same words to mean different things, and then society falls.
It would be like this:
One person thinks the word firetruck, means car crash, and the other person thinks it is a truck that puts out fires.
With logic like this, the world couldn't go round.
This logic is plain stupid.
Strawman logic often is.

No one is arguing that *everyone* can just use words however they want, we’re talking about how all of us should be thinking of these terms, or at the least in this particular conversation I’m explaining to you that while you can take issue with how someone else uses a word, you can’t pretend their argument is stupid because you’re translating everything into your own terms and not theirs.

As a functioning society, we have to have the same basic understanding of the English language, or else no one will understand what anyone else is saying.
And yet definitions have evolved all throughout the history of human civilization, yet we’re all still here, still thriving.

Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,352
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
Wolf, has been changed to:
An individual who lives and identifies  as a wolf, though they may have been said to have a different species at birth.

Though I don't mean it as a stab at furries,
Who I assume treat it as a hobby, rather than identify as,
Like cosplayers.

And I suppose there 'is fantasy and science fiction novels, games, movies,
Where people can change into another species.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,647
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
Look at me mommy I am a wolf
K_Michael
K_Michael's avatar
Debates: 38
Posts: 749
4
5
10
K_Michael's avatar
K_Michael
4
5
10
-->
@Lemming
Though I don't mean it as a stab at furries,
Who I assume treat it as a hobby, rather than identify as,
Like cosplayers.
Most are cosplayers. They may have a sexual attraction to animal characteristics (look up knotting if you dare), but do not believe that they are actually their fursona.

There are therians, however, who believe that they have a non-human soul.
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@TheUnderdog
Doesn’t Nebraska also fall under that definition as well?  I don’t know too much about Native American history.
I added, two states in the definition, so no it doesn't count. 

YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@Double_R
Humans also thought slavery was ok for most of human history, until we realized it wasn’t. Our previous usage of gender is irrelevant to what makes sense now.
No, humans only used slavery for economic purposes. Anyone with a moral conscience, even back then, would have seen that enslaving another human was bad. 
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@Double_R
If it’s a human construct then there is no “correct” way for us to interpret it. It’s up to us to decide that, that’s what this conversation is about.
Finally, we come to an understanding. 

Political right and left are sides based on society’s issues. This hasn’t been an issue till now, so no.
So no then?

No one is arguing that *everyone* can just use words however they want, we’re talking about how all of us should be thinking of these terms, or at the least in this particular conversation I’m explaining to you that while you can take issue with how someone else uses a word, you can’t pretend their argument is stupid because you’re translating everything into your own terms and not theirs.
In the first part of this paragraph, you said, "No one is arguing that *everyone* can just use words however they want,"
Then in the last part, you said," I’m explaining to you that while you can take issue with how someone else uses a word"
So, can we make up our own personal definitions of words, or should we just stick to the key to how society has run and thrived for hundreds of years? 


And yet definitions have evolved all throughout the history of human civilization, yet we’re all still here, still thriving.
Your comparing:
Evolved: "develop gradually, especially from a simple to a more complex form."
And
Changed: "replace (something) with something else, especially something of the same kind that is newer or better; substitute one thing for (another)."

Just like animals have evolved, they still have characteristics of a common ancestor. 
Changing the definition of words, is very different than the definition of a word evolving
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,074
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@TheUnderdog
As I stated.

No such think as Native American.

Just earlier settlers from Asia, pre-America.