Am I held to moral or ethical standards that would say I need to strive to not be unhealthy? Obesity? Addictions?
Un-Health
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Morality is a matter of an opinion.
Some people prefer to live shorter if it means they enjoy life.
Why is there no objective morality?
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@Skipper_Sr
Morality depends on values.
Values are located in our brains and are subject to our opinion.
So people can have different moral systems based on what they value, be it life, health, joy or none of those.
Which values are correct?
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@Skipper_Sr
There are no correct ones or wrong ones.
How do we know what is right or wrong if there are no "right" values? What is false and what is truth? There is nothing else but right and wrong
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@Best.Korea
@Skipper_Sr
Incorrect.
Some people might have shorter lives if they "enjoy" themselves too much.
Choice will have very little to do with it.
Though, there's enjoyment and then there's alternative enjoyment.
And then there's also lazy and stupid, and active and sensible.
You choose.
And morality, ethics, right and wrong are all a part of our conceptual fantasy world.
Real enough, though not real at all.
You choose.
Though conditioning may already have limited your ability to choose.
Which isn't necessarily a wrong thing,
But also, not necessarily a right thing.
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@Skipper_Sr
Right and wrong values dont exist outside of our heads.
For example, we think that being alive is good. This value only exists in our heads.
Even if we think that its the right value, its still just our opinion.
Someone else could have different values in his head.
Someone else doesnt value life at all.
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@zedvictor4
By choice, I usually mean values inside the head.
Hungry = bad
Eating burger = stops hunger
Stopping hunger = good
Eating burger = good
I dont believe in free will. When I speak of choices, I dont believe people made those choices out of nothing.
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@Best.Korea
Knowing the difference between eating for the sake of it and eating out of necessity is the key.
People without a ready access to food will feel hunger.
More affluent people just regard it as dinner time or a snack.
Snacking on burgers for the sake of it, not particularly good.
Stay unhealthy and watch your partner break infidelity morality, cuck.
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@zedvictor4
Necessity is a value related to survival. One must value survival for there to be a necessity.
Also, one must value limiting himself to survival, if he is to live a life of within that which is necessity.
All moral systems could be described as groups of values. This is where humans give values to actions and non-actions. Some actions have greater value in our brains, so our brains prefer certain actions over others.
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@zedvictor4
@Best.Korea
I am going to prove that there is objective right and wrong. It starts with knowledge of laws that govern our world. Laws that have always been around. Take math for example.
1 + 1 = 2. That is right. It is not wrong. It cannot ever be wrong.
1 + 1 = 5. That is wrong. It is not right. It cannot ever be right.
How can you say that there is not objective right and wrong? Right and wrong is not "part of a conceptual fantasy world."
Therefore, right and wrong is not "made up in our head." Right and wrong was governing our earth before there were human heads.
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@Skipper_Sr
You can observe "1 + 1 = 2".
So "1 + 1 = 2" is right.
You can also observe torture. Does that mean torture is right?
When choosing which action to perform, you need values that exist in your head.
You cant find a value "torture = bad" anywhere outside of the brain.
You also cant find it in every brain. Some people think that "torture = good".
So morality is not like "1 + 1 = 2". Different people have different morality.
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@Best.Korea
1 + 1 = 2 is not a matter of opinion or value. It is part of a mathematical law that is eternal. It does not matter if I observe the aforementioned math equation because the law is still true whether I believe it or not.
So just as there are true laws, there must be truth to everything. Which means there must be a true morality. Truth is not relative, so there is an objective morality
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@Skipper_Sr
@#1
If you or your community value/ought such.
Maybe you have kids, and you believe you ought take care of them, until they're grown.
Implies,
You ought not be so stoned out of your mind, that you forget to feed your kids,
Or not so fat that you could die of a heart attack in the next 5 years.
Maybe you have a job, that requires physical exertion,
Maybe you can complete your tasks in a substandard manner,
But might be you feel employer and customers, deserve better more sincere service, for the money paid to you.
Maybe, you think it is good to have happiness and sanity,
Well, maybe you can be happy while morbidly obese to the point you can't leave bed,
Or on some drug that's fried your brain, perhaps you reject other's reality,
But I think most people would be happier in good physical shape, able to understand reality, and not be confused and scared.
Though 'too much good physicals shape, can be mentally and physically taxing to acquire,
And some people's circumstance so bad, they think it better to be drugged,
Though some people in the same circumstance, prefer not to be.
I'd say it just depends on what you value, want, ought.
People vary, in what they work towards, or think they ought.
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@Lemming
I'd say it just depends on what you value, want, ought.
What is "it"? "It just depends..." What is "it"?
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@Lemming
If you or your community value/ought such.
Additionally, how do you know if what you or your community value is true or correct?
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@Skipper_Sr
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@Lemming
The 'ought,The 'ought, it the it.The moral or ethical standard.In yourself, or society.
Will you say that in a different way please? I want to understand what you are saying to the best of my ability
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@Skipper_Sr
"there must be truth to everything. Which means there must be a true morality"
Or the truth could be that there is no objective morality. Truth could be that morality is an opinion.
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@Skipper_Sr
@#19
Well, intellectually I'm a moral nihilist,
But as find my natural urges compelling, my habits compelling,
I don't really 'hold to nihilism, practically speaking.
Though, arguably if I had focused on 'not being a nihilist,
I think I could have justified my position in 'not being one, as well as I justify my 'being one now,
But, just not how it turned out.
Of an individual or communities value being 'correct,
Well, I suppose one might argue that justified beliefs exist,
That is to say,
If one has the goal of keeping their children well nourished,
Let's say two proposed beliefs in securing this objective exist,
Belief 1, spending one's paycheck on booze, will nourish my children,
Belief 2, spending my paycheck on food will nourish my children,
Belief 2, seems more justified to me,
Just based on knowledge, cause and effect, predictions of the future,
Though I suppose some circumstance 'could occur in life, where buying booze led to one's children being nourished.
@#21
Well, you asked in post #1
"Am I held to moral or ethical standards that would say I need to strive to not be unhealthy? Obesity? Addictions?" - Skipper_Sr
Different people and different societies, have different values,
Different things they esteem,
Depending on who you are, what you value,
Or what society you are in, what they value,
That is said moral or ethical standard that says you ought strive not to be unhealthy, obese, addicted.
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@Best.Korea
Truth could be that morality is an opinion
Truth cannot be opinionated.
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@Lemming
Belief 2, seems more justified to me,Just based on knowledge, cause and effect, predictions of the future,
What is the standard for justification?
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@Skipper_Sr
Results, and logic,
Maybe.
Though people and societies vary,
In what is justification, or 'enough justification,
Maybe.
. . .
A person might win 10 spins of a roulette wheel, (Results)
But a record of other people's losses and streaks (Results) imply eventual failure.
As well as game theory, mathematics, and observance of the casino house rules (logic) dictating failure.
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@Lemming
Who decides what is logical?
And in your example with the casino, what is being justified? What is being decided right or wrong?
And in your example with the casino, what is being justified? What is being decided right or wrong?
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@Skipper_Sr
"Truth cannot be opinionated"
Morality is always opinionated.
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@Skipper_Sr
I couldn't say who decides what is logical, myself,
Being shallowly educated and indirectly educated often.
But I look for whether statements and claims seem reasonable to me, or not,
So well as I can.
In the casino,
Well, if I desire money,
Gambling on roulette seems a wrong way to go about trying to satisfy that desire.
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@Best.Korea
Morality is a matter of an opinion.
Then how does one have the capacity to adequately articulate and comprehend it? It’s through OBJECTIVE demonstration.