Why I Support LGBT & Feminism

Author: Yassine

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@Yassine
You seem to be pretty convinced. Let's have a debate on that, maybe you can convince the others too. Still all this post is off-topic.
I don't have the time or interest to debate you, lol. 

It's funny how users like you often jump to the suggestion "let's debate" when you are already really struggling to defend your stance.

You're desperate to show us all how wonderful Islam is, but you aren't convincing anyone. That is because we know how harmful and toxic the Islamic faith is. If you think otherwise, you are deluded. 

Your children have more sexual intercourse, sexual partners, pregnancies, & abortions than any in History. You groom them since early age into sexual identity, sexual education, pride, drag, & all the based sexual perversions. Idk where you're from, but in the US 23 million children below 17 have had sexual intercourse, & more than 40 thousand below the age of 10. & it keeping getting worse every year. I know you love to have your children f*ck & attend strip clubs & have abortion after another or children of their own out of wedlock, & participate in all kinds of sexual deviations, but GOD FORBID! they join in holy matrimony. As I keep saying, the only thing your societies promote is degeneracy, nothing else. It's OK if children have all the sex & partners & abortions in the world, as long as they do it out of wedlock. What a sick disgusting culture this is.
Not sure who "your children" is supposed to refer to, as I am Jewish with family that come from Eastern Europe. The rest of your commentary here is opinionated, absurd, banal, and barely readable because of how childish it is.

You've based an entire paragraph (and paragraphs) on pure misguided opinion and assumption - well done to you! If saying "ooh but everyone in the West gets abortions and loves seeeex 2 much" is what I would see in a debate with you, then I'm really glad that I've refused your request.

No such thing. Gang rape is punishable by settlement, cutting off two opposite limbs, & exile in Sharia. & if the perpetrator happens to be non-virgin then stoning on top of all that.
News flash: it tends to be non-virgins who commit rape.

If stoning perpetrators of rape is what you do in Islam, why isn't that happening or at least being encouraged in some way? 🤔

Muslim countries have the lowest rates of rape, while Western countries dominate the top rates
LOL! Has it occurred to you that cases of rape are probably, you know, underreported in your beloved Muslim nations?

In Islam, there is stigma attached to being raped and as a consequence, many women will not say they have been raped. Another factor is that the police in their countries likely do not care. 

In the West, it's encouraged to claim rape if you think you have been raped. And, the police have been made to care. This would somewhat allude to the "feminism" that you purport to despise.

Apparently now though, it's convenient for you to like it. 

Say, Family values in Islam, I'll take Pro you take Con. Or, gang rape in Islam, I'll take Con & you take Pro. Maybe we can have a debate on who has the best Family values, I'll take Islam, you chose whatever you want.
How about no?! Those resolutions wouldn't be appealing to me and I've no desire to debate you anyway.

In response to your comment on Muslims and China, I can only presume that you are unaware of current events there. 

Muslims, are not popular in China. 

You are talking to me here & you haven't seen my face. Just think of it as a protective mask... I love how Corona exposed all these types, wearing a head cover or a beanie with a mask is fine, but a hijab with niqab is an unacceptable. Also, you are a girl (I assume); you don't have to worry about seeing her face, that's only for strange men. 
In most cases, people were required by law to wear masks. They had no choice, so no one is making the argument that it was "fine" or that they wanted to wear a mask. Now mask mandates have been dispensed with, very few people are still wearing them.

They were also mandated for reasons pertaining to health (apparently), which further illustrates that there is absolutely no comparison. We were told to wear masks because of coronavirus and we did not have a choice, whereas Muslim women are told to cover their face because you don't want "strange men" looking at them...😂

Btw, what do you think men do when they see a woman's face? Do you think they get immediately hard and lose all capacity for self-control? Not all women have faces like mine, Yassine.

Jimmy Saville- abused more than 400 child victims, of course, these findings came after his death... We don't need to talk about Jeffery Epstein & where that leads... 
Agreed. But, how does this make Islam a good religion that is beneficial to the West? It doesn't, when Islam has led to more problems. 

Without Islam, the West would still have rape and it, naturally, would need to address and rectify that. 

With Islam, the West has more instances of rape, specifically child rape, which means they have more rape to deal with and more issues to rectify. 

Islam has not helped to decrease the likelihood of rape, because more rapes are happening as a result of Islam. 

The conclusion here is that Islam is clearly not good for the West. LGBT and feminist agendas also cause harm, but that does not and should not deflect from the harm that Islam is causing. 

But once the lower class people in the West suddenly gained wealth & joined the middle class in the early to mid-20th century -largely thanks to Colonialism & Industrialization, they brought their backward barbaric customs with them & imposed them on the rest of the society as the new trend. But I digress.
That is not true, and you surely know that. *Some* women wore face coverings in western cultures but it was not routinely practiced and the reasons for it varied.

According to you, it's just bad to see a woman's face and body in Islam. It seems women can only be sexual objects to you, and that as a man you have no ability to control yourself or prevent attraction *unless* women wear a face covering.

THAT is what's "strange."
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@ahiyah
Bullseye, you hit all the nails on their heads.
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@bmdrocks21
Degenerate is an assumption relative to conditioning.

You fall into one of three camps on the issue of assumptive degeneracy.

Such is life, and such is old men fiddling with little boys' dicks.

Thing is though, there is no greater moral authority capable of settling the issue.

Or if there is, they seem reluctant to do so.

So perhaps they fall into the not bothered camp.
Ehyeh
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@Yassine
Population collapse has little to do with the LGBTQ community and more so to do with economics and technological availability. We can see these same demographic falls in China, despite them, as you yourself say, not being feminist in the least. This is also true in Korea and Japan. It has nothing to do with feminism and more so with industrialisation, cost of living and the availability of material options. Islamic nations will catch up the west in poor birthrates too when they get richer as nations. 
-
The west has also never really had a population advantage over the rest of the world, only coming close to China or India's populations during the industrial revolution. The west conquered most of the world through superior technology tactics and overall being less divided than other places, which constantly are infighting like china and India. Not population.
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@Yassine
You support a way of thinking that "you" say will decimate the white race. I extrapolate that to mean you want the white race gone. I will concede you didn't say you hate whites but do want them gone based on your description of what you support.
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@ahiyah
I don't have the time or interest to debate you, lol. 
- Just say you can't defend your case. No need to save face.


It's funny how users like you often jump to the suggestion "let's debate" when you are already really struggling to defend your stance.
- You have made no case. Just ranting & whining. 


You're desperate to show us all how wonderful Islam is, but you aren't convincing anyone. That is because we know how harmful and toxic the Islamic faith is. If you think otherwise, you are deluded. 
- Beauty may indeed seem harmful & toxic to ugliness. 


Not sure who "your children" is supposed to refer to, as I am Jewish with family that come from Eastern Europe.
- & without Islam, you wouldn't exist today. "Your" as in the Western obviously...


The rest of your commentary here is opinionated, absurd, banal, and barely readable because of how childish it is.
- This sentence is opinionated, absurd, banal, and barely readable because of how childish it is. As to the rest of my commentary, it is simply a series of facts, which clearly you are unable to rebut. Let's see:
Do you groom children in the West into sexual identity? Yes, you do.
Do you groom children into sexual education? Yes, you do.
Do you make children participate in drag & pride in the West? Yes, you do.
Are 23 million children participating in sex in the US? Yes, they are. (this is older stat, I am sure it's so much worse today).
Are more than 40k children participating in sex in the US? Yes, they are. (older stat).
...etc...etc

- If you personally or your family do not adhere to these practices, & if your concern is actually child sex & child grooming & child rape, then start condemning your own moral bankrupt societies instead of deflecting. But we both know it isn't, it's just hate. I still suspect you are completely fine with children participating in all kinds of sexual practices with as many partners as they wish, as long as this is not within the abhorrent disgusting barbaric backwards matrimony. 


You've based an entire paragraph (and paragraphs) on pure misguided opinion and assumption
- FACTS*.


- well done to you! If saying "ooh but everyone in the West gets abortions and loves seeeex 2 much" is what I would see in a debate with you, then I'm really glad that I've refused your request.
- Do you always defeat opponents in your head like this? You know this isn't how a debate is done, right? It is your opponent that  advances their arguments, not you in your head.


News flash: it tends to be non-virgins who commit rape.
If stoning perpetrators of rape is what you do in Islam, why isn't that happening or at least being encouraged in some way? 🤔
- It's probably because the overbearing interference of the West in Muslim countries to prevent them from applying their laws. 


LOL! Has it occurred to you that cases of rape are probably, you know, underreported in your beloved Muslim nations?
- This is always the excuse Westerners love to bring up whenever they are uncomfortable with failures like this in their countries. "Oh it's UnDerRePortEd"...


In Islam, there is stigma attached to being raped and as a consequence, many women will not say they have been raped.
- No such thing. It is obligatory in Islam to report rape, & as promptly as possible. If you mean in Muslim societies, again you'd be wrong. There is a huge stigma attached to having sex out-of-wedlock, not to being raped. On the contrary, family support is the most important thing. Most stories I heard about rape in Muslim countries generally end up with the guy having his parts cut off by the woman's brothers or someone.


Another factor is that the police in their countries likely do not care. 
- Isn't all this so very convenient... It must be hard to swallow that rape in the West is so much worse than the Muslim world, that you resort to all this nonsense. How can the "civilized" people be so disgusting... Even if we suppose that everything you say is true beyond wishful thinking, it will still not account for the 1000% & 2000% & 4000% increase in rape rates between Muslim countries & European countries, not even a little bit. Even if you double & triple & Quadruple the rates in Muslim countries they would still be negligible as compared to those in Europe.


In the West, it's encouraged to claim rape if you think you have been raped. And, the police have been made to care. This would somewhat allude to the "feminism" that you purport to despise.
- I personally know of girls in the US who have been raped & have not reported it, because their families didn't care. & yes these were White Christian families. It has been shown that destigmatizing rape reporting by assuming women's word which the Feminists championed leads more to false reporting than to actual rape reporting. The police in the West (or huge parts of it) have not been made to care, they have been made to believe women who accuse men of rape. The former implies seeking the truth & abiding by the principle of 'innocent until proven guilty', while the latter implies allowing women to lie to ruin men's lives. 


Apparently now though, it's convenient for you to like it.
- I like Justice. If Feminists side with Justice, I am there, if they don't, which is usually the case, I am against.


How about no?! Those resolutions wouldn't be appealing to me and I've no desire to debate you anyway.
- I'll take that as a concession. You can't have enough of screaming assertions right & left, but you fold the moment you know you'd have to actually face your opponent. 


In response to your comment on Muslims and China, I can only presume that you are unaware of current events there. 
Muslims, are not popular in China. 
- Don't project. 


Yassine
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@ahiyah

In most cases, people were required by law to wear masks. They had no choice, so no one is making the argument that it was "fine" or that they wanted to wear a mask. Now mask mandates have been dispensed with, very few people are still wearing them.

They were also mandated for reasons pertaining to health (apparently), which further illustrates that there is absolutely no comparison.
- So if something does not pertain to health to you, then it's invalid? Are you Jewish because it pertains to your health then? Is smoking allowed in your country because it's good for health? What a bunch of nonsense! – You are missing the point. Those same excuses they used to bring up against the face veil, "security" "sociability"... were dropped when it came to masks... 


We were told to wear masks because of coronavirus and we did not have a choice, whereas Muslim women are told to cover their face because you don't want "strange men" looking at them...😂
- Aren't you Jewish? You gotta follow your laws. A Jewish woman who leaves her house without face veil has left it without her religion, right? I hear the Haredi Jews still abide by those rules. 


Btw, what do you think men do when they see a woman's face? Do you think they get immediately hard and lose all capacity for self-control?
- Why do you cover any part of your body then?! Go out naked & show everything. What do you think men do when they see women's skin? 


Not all women have faces like mine, Yassine.
- That's probably the reason why that woman covered her face. Maybe you should too. We don't want out-of-control men roaming around, do we. Or maybe you like the attention from strange men.


Agreed. But, how does this make Islam a good religion that is beneficial to the West? It doesn't, when Islam has led to more problems. 
- Most good things in the West are thanks to Islam. You have rights as a woman thanks to Islam. Women in Europe had no rights to property, consensual marriage, divorce, education, inheritance, voting, contraception...etc not too long ago, whereas they had all these rights & much more since the inception of Islam. They gained full property rights in France in 1939. Until the 1880s wives were still literally sold by their men in the marketplace. It is the influence of European thinkers who either studied in the Muslim world or were hugely influenced by the Islamic Tradition, like Locke, Berkeley, Rousseau, La Martine, Le Bon...etc, that brought these rights slowly to European women. Until the 80s, honor killing was still permissible in Italy. Divorced was allowed in Ireland some two decades ago. 


Without Islam, the West would still have rape and it, naturally, would need to address and rectify that. 
- Stone rapists & cut off their limbs. Problem solved. OR, you can just do away with all the over-sexualization & go back to being a modest decent society. 


With Islam, the West has more instances of rape, specifically child rape, which means they have more rape to deal with and more issues to rectify. 
- You do love to spout incessant drivel. Given that rape in Islam is both a major sin & warrants capital punishment, it negates the supposition that Islam promotes rape... As to the few -alleged- Muslims in the West who rape, well, they are not following their religion are they? These people drink alcohol, pick up girls, fornicate & do all kinds of anti-Islamic disgusting sins for the purpose of assimilating to your degenerate culture of course; rape is just around the corner after that. 


Islam has not helped to decrease the likelihood of rape, because more rapes are happening as a result of Islam. 
- In Islam, looking at a woman's face or hands with pleasure is a sin. Looking at a woman's body (except face & hands) is a sin with or without pleasure -unless otherwise necessary. It is also a sin for a man & woman to be alone in a private space, or to touch skin to skin....etc. Flirting is also sin. Rape is a loooong way from this. – Contrastingly, from drunkenness to fornication to adultery to promiscuity to porn & even to prostitution, all promoted as women empowerment in your societies. Rape is just one gesture away from "she said no".


The conclusion here is that Islam is clearly not good for the West.
- There is no conclusion without premises. You have no case. Just hateful drivel. 


LGBT and feminist agendas also cause harm, but that does not and should not deflect from the harm that Islam is causing. 
- If you're truly concerned about rape & child sexualization, then your enemy is the West & what it stands for, Liberalism, Egalitarianism, Secularism...


That is not true, and you surely know that.
- Your ignorance of something does not entail it's untruthfulness. You can just admit you don't know.


*Some* women
- *NOBLE* women. They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Here is the king of Austria from your side of the world with his wife in 1916.


wore face coverings in western cultures but it was not routinely practiced and the reasons for it varied.
- On the contrary. It was indeed common, though reasons may have also included sun protection. This reminds me of a poem from 16th century I stumbled upon some time ago:
Weare masks for vailes to hide and holde,
as Christians did, and as Turkes do use,
To hide the face from wantons bolde.


According to you, it's just bad to see a woman's face and body in Islam.
- On the contrary. What you actually meant to say is to give stranger adult men pleasurable access to the women with whom they have no blood relations or offer no commitment or critical help. That's disgusting! In Islam, an adult non-elderly free woman must cover her Awrah (hair & body except hands & face) when in worship, or in the presence of adult straight virile men who aren't kin. & a adult free man must cover his Awrah (body except back, head arms & legs) when in worship, or in the presence of others with whom he has no sexual relationship. 


It seems women can only be sexual objects to you,
- You have it backwards! That is what YOU promote, but you call it women empowerment. Modesty precludes sexualization. Your women uncover, & your men pretend to cover them in their heads. It's too funny :-D... Having women sexualized for all men to see is the definition of sexual objectification. 


and that as a man you have no ability to control yourself or prevent attraction *unless* women wear a face covering.
- Face covering is not an obligation in Islam, it's optional. Men must lower their gaze though. Attraction is a biological fact. Men are made to be attracted to women, & vise-versa. Sexual desire is a good thing, without which the Human species can not live on. Attraction in itself is not the issue, it's the action that follows. As I said, Family is a sacred right in Islam, precisely to insure the survival of the species. Practices which are conducive to breakdown Family are restricted in Islam. Men are allowed to look at stranger women only in the pursuit of marriage, or otherwise if it's necessary (like a medical check-up or a surgery). Hence, out-of-wedlock sexual practices, adultery, bastard children, abandoned children, sexual harassment, rape...etc, are prevented at the source. This insures a healthy society where women are taken care of & children are reared in sustainable families,  all with their full right. 


Yassine
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@bmdrocks21
I made no reference to the Dark Ages. I suggested that they may become like most majority-Muslim countries on the face of the planet
- I do hope they indeed become decent humane societies.


Grooming gangs, gang rape, and beheadings weren’t a problem pre-mass-Muslim-immigration
- Don't be so sure. Much of that is still carried our by Westerners today.


Any supposed lack of death toll by the Islamic world is entirely due to incompetence and lagging technology, not desire.
- Except they conquered the world & dominated it in technology & science & law & politics for 10 centuries. The death toll of the Arab Conquests amounts to 130k people over a period of 100 years, whereas the death toll of the Conquest of America is a thousand times that. The difference? The places Muslims conquered actually thrived with their conquerers.


And the vast majority of colonized countries are way better off than they were before colonization and better than they otherwise would be
- You can't possibly believe this. You might have been able to get away with this fantastic pretentious narrative in the past. Not anymore. Colonialism is the Crusades on steroid. It is undoubtedly the deadliest & most destructive event in Human History, probably besides the Flood. 


But, I’ll level with you. I’d prefer moderate Islamic values on aggregate to the current degenerate culture being exported by most Western countries. I don’t find that optimal at all, but those values are better than feminist ones.
- Islamic values are Islamic values. No moderate & immoderate values. But I am glad you came to your senses.


But rest assured, there is a right-wing resurgence in many European countries and to some degree in America. Anti-feminist and anti-LGBTQ candidates are bringing back family values without Islam
- Old coots. The might bring back some sparks here & there, but it's hopeless. The younger generation are overwhelmingly Left to the extreme. Close to 40% of GenZ are themselves LGBT. I wouldn't bet on resurgence. As long as your societies uphold Liberalism & Secularism & Democracy & all that jazz, this will not change. The only way is to go back to the olden days, bring back kings & popes. We'll see what the newly appointed King Charles will do. 
Yassine
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@sadolite
You support a way of thinking that "you" say will decimate the white race.
- I am not God, I can't decimate a race with my thoughts... But the White race are decimating themselves by themselves. They don't need my help.


I extrapolate that to mean you want the white race gone. I will concede you didn't say you hate whites but do want them gone based on your description of what you support.
- I love Whites. They are going extinct, so I want them back. But the only way they can come back is to shrink in size & lose their dominion, so that they may go back to fostering Family again & increase their birthrates. 

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@zedvictor4
Great, believe all of that. Live a deracinated hedonistic lifestyle.

Your ilk are why Europe and America are on their deathbed. Your edgy atheism and no sense of community with your people is precisely why a bunch of Muslim goat herders are going to control Europe.

Keep chanting your empty platitudes about “no white race” as your government explicitly discriminates against anyone white and nearly only accepts non-white immigrants.
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@Yassine
Islamic values are Islamic values. No moderate & immoderate values.
Not sure I agree with that. Some seem noticeably more willing to kill people for violations than others. And even within Islam, there are Shia and Sunni Muslims that interpret things differently.

But regardless, on paper the values aren’t too bad.

- You can't possibly believe this. You might have been able to get away with this fantastic pretentious narrative in the past. Not anymore. Colonialism is the Crusades on steroid
Could you honestly, with a straight face, tell me that India and South Africa were better off before colonialism? Colonists brought high speed rail, electricity, plumbing, concrete roads, many things that would otherwise not exist

During colonial rule, Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) was the breadbasket of Africa. Once the “colonists” were forced out, they had food insecurity

Colonialism is the Crusades on steroid.
The Crusades were initially a response to Islam trying to militarily conquer Europe. It was an anti-colonial response against imperialistic aggression

The places Muslims conquered actually thrived with their conquerers.
Muslims in North Africa had the largest slave trade in history. Some majority-Muslim countries still enslave people

We'll see what the newly appointed King Charles will do.
Nothing. He is a sissy. Might be as cowardly and liberal as his mother. Only thing he knows well is what good architecture looks like
Yassine
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@Ehyeh
Population collapse has little to do with the LGBTQ community and more so to do with economics and technological availability.
- Switch them.


We can see these same demographic falls in China, despite them, as you yourself say, not being feminist in the least. This is also true in Korea and Japan.
- I don't think you are aware of what you're saying. Having women participate in the workforce as men IS Feminism. This naturally comes at the expense of Family, thus birth rates.


It has nothing to do with feminism and more so with industrialisation, cost of living and the availability of material options.
- & the Earth is flat.


Islamic nations will catch up the west in poor birthrates too when they get richer as nations. 
- Wrong. Qatar is the richest nation on Earth & its native population still boasts +4 in fertility, one of the highest in the world. Even in the "richer" West, Muslims still have high birth rates (around 3 in countries like France & the UK).


The west has also never really had a population advantage over the rest of the world, only coming close to China or India's populations during the industrial revolution.
- False. You seem to believe that if you say it magically becomes true. – The West's total population by the end of the 19th century was a third of global population, equivalent to China's & India's combined. & In terms of urban population -which is the effective population- they had more than two thirds. 


The west conquered most of the world through superior technology tactics and overall being less divided than other places,  
- You people must realize that your version of History does not work elsewhere right? Let's see, at the onset of the 19th century, the Ottomans had firearms, rotary guns, cannons, tanks, torpedos, rocket, grenades... etc, tech which Europe was just acquiring. What you are referring to is a time that comes later, after all attempts by non-Europeans to compete in industrialization have been thwarted back to the Stone Age with sheer violence -like Ali Pasha's project. Eventually Westerners came out victorious & continued their industrialization efforts with no Eastern or Muslim competitors. – I do agree though that the West was able to maintain its Colonial project even after losing their population advantage thanks to superior technology & deceptive tactics, & most of all global institutions. 


which constantly are infighting like china and India.
- Compliments of the Colonialists' divide & conquer.


Not population.
- Don't be too sure. Pre-17th century, the population of the Ottoman Empire & its European vassals was close to that of the rest of Europe. By the 19th century, individual countries in Europe (such as France, UK, Germany...) had a larger population than the entire Ottoman Empire combined. The West's population tripled. For instance, France invaded Egypt with 10 times the population & Algeria with 13 times the population, & still failed to conquer either. In Egypt, Napoleon won against the peasants, but once the standard Ottoman army came he was chased out. In Algeria, they were only successful after massacring 1/3rd (yes 1/3rd) of its population through mass scorched-earth invasion. They burned villagers & farmers in their fields. Also, this was in a time where much of the rest of the world was declining & de-urbanizing, when Europe was urbanizing & rising. It terms of urban population, there were two Westerners for each non-Westerner. It would simply be impossible for Europe to overtake the Ottomans if 16th century population ratios persisted...
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I have talked to many muslims. Most of the time they talk about beheadings, stoning, cutting off limbs...ect.

I heard them talk about what are proper stones to use: round ones or sharp ones.

They said that one day, US will follow muslims example and introduce stoning and cutting off limbs of homosexuals. Not just homosexuals, but anyone who has sex outside marriage.
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@Yassine
 Wrong. Qatar is the richest nation on Earth & its native population still boasts +4 in fertility, one of the highest in the world. Even in the "richer" West, Muslims still have high birth rates (around 3 in countries like France & the UK).

That's not true. Qatar has a below replacement rate birthrate of 1.8. It is only going to get lower. Give them time, and they will catch up with the Europeans and North East Asians. We must remember that Europe has been prospering for much longer than these richer Middle East counter parts. Time will tell. If you're going to make these statements, you're going to need evidence to support them. You critique me for saying things with no evidence, speaking them into reality, but are you not doing the same if I'm guilty of it?

 False. You seem to believe that if you say it magically becomes true. – The West's total population by the end of the 19th century was a third of global population, equivalent to China's & India's combined. & In terms of urban population -which is the effective population- they had more than two thirds. 
China in the 1800's represented 30% of the world's population, and India, 21%. France and Britain were 5%, respectively. Maybe they're equal if you're counting literally every nation in Europe? And if you are counting every nation in Europe, that is nonsense. The French didn't add their army or men to the British army to take over India. It was Britain that took over India, with France as its main competitor. It should also be noted that this is counting British and French possessions, so colonises and not just the ethnic French and British.



We're seeing it. In 100 years, the Middle East will not be any different from Europe. In 200 years, Africa won't be either. Time will prove me right as Qatar and its neighbours have lower and lower birthrates. There are, of course, a million factors that go into a country's birthrates, from access to contraceptives and values, although the biggest factor is definitely wealth and education, not so much Islam.
 
Women being in the workplace also affects birthrates, but not having women in the workplace is even worse and could strip many western nations of hundreds of billions, if not into the trillions, of their GDP if women were to be taken out. making everyone collectively poorer. It's also very hard to raise a child on one person's income unless they have an affluent job. Which isnt many people, most people needed their mothers to be working growing up to have a decent life themselves.

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@bmdrocks21
Deracinated and hedonistic for sure.

I moved to Wales with my wife of 38 years.

And who are my people other than earthlings.

And who are my ilk other than earthlings.

And I'll take edgy atheist as a compliment.

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@Best.Korea
I have talked to many muslims. Most of the time they talk about beheadings, stoning, cutting off limbs...ect.
I heard them talk about what are proper stones to use: round ones or sharp ones.
They said that one day, US will follow muslims example and introduce stoning and cutting off limbs of homosexuals. Not just homosexuals, but anyone who has sex outside marriage.
- I don't wanna be the one to break the news to you, but you need to check yourself in asap into an asylum or a mental institution. What drugs are you using? 


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@Yassine
No drugs here. Just the beauty of islam.

I can still send you a picture of my penis in case you want to see what muslims did to me. It doesnt have to be gay. Or are you saying it will tempt you so you dont want to see it? Its okay. I understand.
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@Ehyeh

That's not true.
- My bad, it was 4.0 in 2019 according to this report. I had the impression it was 4.1 or 4.2, we all make mistakes.


- Maybe you should've thought about that for a minute before you jumped the gun... I mentioned *native* Qataris, who constitute a tenth of the total population of Qatar, who also happen to be obscenely rich. The rest are immigrants who came to work in the country leaving their families back home. Of course Qatar is gunna have low birth rates stats, since the children of most residents in the country are born & live somewhere else.


It is only going to get lower. Give them time, and they will catch up with the Europeans and North East Asians.
- You do have a tendency to skip a thought or two... How very convenient of you to ignore the fact that European Muslims still do have high birth rates: around 3 in countries like France & the UK for instance, about double that of the natives


We must remember that Europe has been prospering for much longer than these richer Middle East counter parts.
- I wouldn't be so sure about that... the average income of Europe post WWII is less than the average income of Africa today. So, maybe by a couple of decades.


Time will tell.
- Time has told. Muslims always have higher birth rates, wherever they are. Evidently due to strong Family values. For instance, the countries with least female participation in workforce are all Muslim countries. Muslim women would rather leave their jobs & take care of their families. 


If you're going to make these statements, you're going to need evidence to support them.
- Evidence for what?! That abandoning Family in favor of Labour does not lead to lower birth rates?


You critique me for saying things with no evidence,
- Still do.


speaking them into reality, but are you not doing the same if I'm guilty of it?
- No.


 False. You seem to believe that if you say it magically becomes true. – The West's total population by the end of the 19th century was a third of global population, equivalent to China's & India's combined. & In terms of urban population -which is the effective population- they had more than two thirds. 
- English, learn it. I said "by the end of the 19th century". There wasn't much global Colonialism in the 1800s was there! Regardless, in the 1900s, Western population (Europe, America & settlements) accounted for some 38% of global population, & the combined population of China & India accounted for some 41%.


France and Britain were 5%, respectively. Maybe they're equal if you're counting literally every nation in Europe? And if you are counting every nation in Europe, that is nonsense.
- You're proving my case. The major European -later Colonial- states then (according to your own source) constituted a quarter of global population, also making up almost the entirety of Europe's population.
 

The French didn't add their army or men to the British army to take over India. It was Britain that took over India, with France as its main competitor.
- Your ignorance keeps showing. There was no India in the 1800s. The Indian Subcontinent then had more states & kingdoms than Europe. The Brits fought individual Indian states, which they vastly outnumbered, at different instances for a long period of time ranging 200 years.  The same way France fought individual African & Asian states they vastly outnumbered. The exception is probably the Mughal & Maratha empires, which went under more due to infighting, then to British conquest. Britain never actually conquered India, it mostly ruled by proxy (as in tributary or vassal states) except in some particular regions. – Also, 1800 India was probably the most industrialized region on Earth (besides the Ottoman Aegean region), especially the Bengal Subah. It is the origin of transfer of technology & industrialization to Europe, when the UK duplicated their model into their own country, then later claimed the "First Industrial Revolution". LOL!


It should also be noted that this is counting British and French possessions, so colonises and not just the ethnic French and British.
- What? like Scotland & Ireland for Britain, or Poland & Belgium for France. I fail to see your point...


- Here again you are proving my point. The Ottomans had less people than individual European countries like France, UK, Germany... (their predecessors) each. European population increased from 80 million in mid 17th century to some 500 million by the end of the 19th century. 


We're seeing it. In 100 years, the Middle East will not be any different from Europe. In 200 years, Africa won't be either.
- Unless Muslims adopt Liberalism & Feminism & all the isms, which isn't gunna happen, this ain't gunna happen. & even if we assume it will, by then it will be too late. Europe's population is projected to fall under 5% of global population & the Muslim world's population to soar to over 40% in just few decades. 


Time will prove me right as Qatar and its neighbours have lower and lower birthrates.
- Lower birthrates =/= below replacement rate. 


There are, of course, a million factors that go into a country's birthrates, from access to contraceptives and values, although the biggest factor is definitely wealth and education,
- It ultimately boils down to Family values. As you said, access to contraception & values & education all pertain to Family values. Western style education today is a Feminist education, designed to create a labour force, not to promote knowledge. The result is job chasing women, not wives or mothers. The other main factor in birthrates is Urbanization, though not much of a factor in below-replacement fertility. Going from rural to urban lifestyle impacts Family needs & therefore Family size. 


not so much Islam.
- Yet, we consistently across the board see Muslims having higher birth rates than their counterparts everywhere in the world, no matter the income level, education, contraception access & everything in between. In Africa, Muslim nations always have higher birthrates than their Christian neighbors. Even within single nations, Muslims always have the highest birthrates. In India, more than Hindus. In Nigeria, more than Christians. In Palestine, more than Jews...etc.  


Women being in the workplace also affects birthrates, but not having women in the workplace is even worse and could strip many western nations of hundreds of billions, if not into the trillions, of their GDP if women were to be taken out. making everyone collectively poorer. It's also very hard to raise a child on one person's income unless they have an affluent job. Which isnt many people, most people needed their mothers to be working growing up to have a decent life themselves.
- This is the Big Lie incessantly told by proponents of Feminism. You have it completely backwards. In effect, the normalization of women's participation in the workforce may at first glance seem to increase labour force & thus productivity, but in reality it leads to below replacement birthrates, which leads to a fast aging & declining society, which leads to an increasingly shrinking working-age population (i.e. productive population), hence an ever smaller labour force, to oblivion. In Japan, the working-age population fell from 87 million to 74 million in a mere two decades -& declining, while its population slightly decreased in the same period (from 128 to 126 million, it peaked in 2012). Without said normalization, Japan would've definitely more than made up for lack of mainstream participation of women in workforce with increased of men in labour force, for its population would have drastically increased, & this its working-age population as well. – This is the epitome of the Western Value. Immediate self gratification at the expense of others & the future. No vision, no legacy. As long as we can increase production for our benefit today by making women work, it matters not if the future is bleak or if anyone else gets hurt. The most daunting consequence of this horrific project is the collapse of Family. Women are made to serve strangers & be at their disposal at the expense of their husbands & children.

- In truth, having women stay home adds to the stability not just of her children but also of her working husbands, which subsequently increases their productivity. Women participation in the workforce does not add real value to the economy, it just induces a different distribution of tasks. Stay at home mothers were not & are not stationary, they are also constantly active. Housework, food prep, nursing, child tutoring, shopping.. & all sorts of House & Family related tasks must be done either way, by the woman present at home, or delegated to someone else at an extra cost. If the wife isn't cooking the food, then the chef at the restaurant is. No new value has been created. – On the surface, this may seem like more jobs are being created, which should drive the economy. But in reality, the cost of living increases the more things are delegated to others. You are paying for the labour & profits of others for domestic tasks, instead of keeping it in the family. It is not that a one person's income is insufficient to raise a family, rather, it becomes insufficient when domestic tasks are delegated elsewhere. – They want to be able to afford eating at restaurants, having a nanny, getting a tutor, buying clothes for their children...etc, all domestic tasks traditionally taken care of by women. – The question is who really benefits from having women in the workforce? It's not laborers for sure. As the woman of the house joins the workforce & gains more income, family lifestyle costs soar, with much of domestic tasks delegated elsewhere. Not much gain is made. Indeed, it is the capitalist. The more delegated services, the more wealth is accumulated. Hence, why women are made to join the workforce.
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@Best.Korea
No drugs here. Just the beauty of islam.
- Then you DEFINITELY need to see a psychiatrist pronto.  


I can still send you a picture of my penis in case you want to see what muslims did to me. It doesnt have to be gay. Or are you saying it will tempt you so you dont want to see it? Its okay. I understand.
- You can tell your psychiatrist about these fetishes too, It may be related to your insanity. 
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@zedvictor4
And who are my people other than earthlings.

And who are my ilk other than earthlings.
That’s quite tragic. You have no people, do you?

Make of “edgy atheist” as you please. Maybe you’ll be judged, maybe you’ll have a life disconnected from any group of people and then eternal nothingness. Either way, a pitiful existence.

Enjoy what you can, I suppose. It’s probably too late for you to change anything meaningful about yourself or your beliefs
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@Yassine
Yet you support the thinking that is causing what you say you don't want.
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ALLAH AK BAH
Yassine
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@bmdrocks21
Not sure I agree with that. Some seem noticeably more willing to kill people for violations than others. And even within Islam, there are Shia and Sunni Muslims that interpret things differently.
- I do mean mainstream Sunni Islam, fringe sects notwithstanding. Shia-Sunni categorization is a Western invention, & it's more political than anything else. Sunni Islam from Sunnah (i.e. prophetic tradition) is Islam from prophetic Isnad (i.e. chain of authority going back to the beloved Prophet (pbuh)). This chain of authority (Isnad) is what distinguishes mainstream Islam or Sunnis from all other sects, which either they lack or they reject. The Shia, for instance, claim to have Isnad when in reality they don't. They don't even bother proving it, as they believe it's esoteric knowledge. The Mutaziles (probably the most prominent non-Sunni Islamic sect in History) reject Isnad. They rather believe prophetic truth can be accessed through Reason. The Wahhabis/Salafis too reject Isnad, & they believe in going straight to the sources (i.e. scripture) without the need of any chain of authority. The Protestant version of Muslims if you'd like. 

- As to Sunni vs Shia interpretation. As I said, Sunni/Shia is fake news. It's more like Sunnis vs Bid'i (everyone else, who combined do not constitute more than 10% of Muslims historically & today). Here are some examples of theological differences between Sunnis & other sects.
  • On human agency: Qadaryah believe in true free will, Jabryah in absolute determinism (these were prominent during the 7th & 8th century, & were adopted by the Umayyad dynasty for a short period of time).  The Sunnis believe in free will in intention, & determinism in action.
  • On political leadership: Shia = leadership is divinely appointed (specifically the descendants of the beloved Prophet (pbuh)), Haruryah = leadership is fake news (like ISIS, in some form of anarchism) , Sunnis = leaders are elected by the people.
  • On reason vs. revelation: Mutazilah = revelation is subject to reason (they were very prominent in the 9th century & controlled the Abbassid empire for almost half a century), Atharia = reason is subject to revelation, Sunnis = reason & revelation are congruent.
  • On God's attributes: Jahmyah = God is all transcendent, (i.e. does not act on the world), Mujasima = God is all immanent, i.e. a literal body in time & space (like the Wahhabis), Sunnis = God is transcendent & immanent.
  • On faith vs. works: Murjia = faith alone for salvation, Khawarij = works sufficient for salvation (experienced many rise-&-falls in Islamic History, like Wahhabis). Sunnis = faith with works are required for salvation.

Could you honestly, with a straight face, tell me that India and South Africa were better off before colonialism?
- South Africa is not a colony, it's a settlement, as America or Australia are. It's part of the West. As to India, you must be utterly ignorant of Indian History to be saying such nonsense. The Mughal Empire in India was the richest & most advanced nation in the world pre-Colonialism. It boasted arguably the most industrialized are in the world in the Bay of Bengal (next to the Aegean region in the Ottoman Empire). The Bengal region particularly had the highest income level back then. What the West like to call the "Industrial Revolution" is in fact merely a transfer of technology & knowledge largely from Mughal India into the UK by the British & to the rest of Europe (also from the Ottomans). Textile manufacturing, sewing mills, factories, shipyards, cotton machines...etc, all that came from India. 


Colonists brought high speed rail, electricity, plumbing, concrete roads, many things that would otherwise not exist
- To themselves, for sure. To the colonized, the rail line was only a way to plunder their countries & rob of them of their wealth & work for the benefit of the colonizer. 


During colonial rule, Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) was the breadbasket of Africa. Once the “colonists” were forced out, they had food insecurity.
- This is so convoluted & twisted I don't even know how to start to answer it.


The Crusades were initially a response to Islam trying to militarily conquer Europe. It was an anti-colonial response against imperialistic aggression
- Gotta love the fantasies.  Islam is a religion, it can't conquer anything... The majority of crusades were actually carried out against fellow christians, many sects of which massacred in the process (such as the Catharists). Must find that "imperialistic aggression"... The crusaders also massacred Middle Eastern christians, along with Muslims & Jews & everything that moves. Even the Orthodox who allied with them weren't spared & their capital Constantinople was sacked & its people raped & massacred. So much for a "response" huh! – Also, claiming that invaders (Franks & Brits) crossing a continent to take "revenge" on peoples (in the Middle East) they had virtually no contact with, & to "reclaim" land (Jerusalem) which they never had in the first place, from its natives (either native Christians & Jews or Muslims descendants of them) centuries after Muslim conquests, is a response against imperialistic aggression is delirious to the extreme. The same can be said about the Spanish crusaders who invaded southern Spain & removed its natives from it. – Say, if the Crusaders as you claim were waging a retaliatory war against the supposed Muslim aggression, then what aggression has the Americas, Africa, India, East Indies & the entire effing world committed, that the Crusaded has to retaliate against & annihilate them too?!! As I said, Colonialism is simply an extension of the Crusades, albeit much more brutal. For anyone who studied History, the Crusades never stopped. Christians have since pursued the idea that the Earth belongs to us, we only need claim it. From then, to the Age of "Discovery", to the Colonial Period, the whole narrative is about lands "without" natives with lush plains & abundant resources, all left unattended. In fact, the West still thinks of the world as theirs to this day. 

- More importantly, it is not the instigation of the Crusades that's the issue, invasions happen. It's the brutality & savagery with which these were carried out. A quarter of the population was annihilated in the most atrocious ways: men, women & children massacred mercilessly, genocide, torture, impalement, rape, cannibalism...etc.


Muslims in North Africa had the largest slave trade in history.
- You don't have to resort to stupid sh*t like this to feel better about your abominable History. No such thing. What you mean by "slave" is 'chattel salve', which is not a thing in Islam or Islamic History. It's a misnomer. The worst type of slave in Islam 'Qin' had better status & rights than the best serf or laborer in the West. Qins in North Africa largely constituted the noble & military class. The Bukhari "slaves" (from West-Africa) in Alawite Morocco (17th+ century) made up the bulk of the state army, & the main political faction of the country for centuries. Qins even founded some states in North Africa, such as the Turkic Bahri dynasty, the Circassian Burji dynasty & the Nubian Kafur dynaty.


Some majority-Muslim countries still enslave people
- Don't project. Slavery is literally decreed in the US Constitution. Prisoners in the States are explicitly slaves. The US enslaved 800k German captives in WWII who had to labor for the US without compensation until their deaths. – But you don't have to look too far. US soldiers themselves are effectively, for all intents & purposes, slaves. In fact, by our definition of "slavery" a collage graduate who has to work to pay his student load is a slave (equivalent to a Mukatib slave in Islam). 


Nothing. He is a sissy. Might be as cowardly and liberal as his mother. Only thing he knows well is what good architecture looks like
- I heard he usually expressed his political opinions & made several recommendations to previous PMs. I still have some hope. 

Yassine
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@sadolite
Yet you support the thinking that is causing what you say you don't want.
- Very confusion, much confucious, such confused.

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@bmdrocks21
A Zedku for bmdrocks21.


I have no people.

What do you mean?

I currently have about 8 billion.

Judged by whom?

And eternal nothingness for sure,

Same as the 8 billion mentioned above.

And please don't waste your time,

Pitying me.

I do just fine,

And why would I wish to change my established database,

That does just fine too.

And I believe nothing,

Accept facts,

And hypothesise about hypotheticals.

And wherein lies the angst within this discourse.

Well,

The only I angst I detect,

Oozes out of bmdrocks21.

Have a nice day y'all.
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@Yassine
Are you going to explode?
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"Gang rape is punishable by settlement, cutting off two opposite limbs, & exile in Sharia. & if the perpetrator happens to be non-virgin then stoning on top of all that"

Very nice. 

When you stone a person, what stones do you prefer? Round ones or sharp ones?
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@Yassine
Maybe you should've thought about that for a minute before you jumped the gun... I mentioned *native* Qataris, who constitute a tenth of the total population of Qatar, who also happen to be obscenely rich. The rest are immigrants who came to work in the country leaving their families back home. Of course Qatar is gunna have low birth rates stats, since the children of most residents in the country are born & live somewhere else.
Poorer immigrants always tend to have higher birthrates than the native people. Would you like to give a source proving either this wrong or that the Qatari's have higher birthrates than the immigrants?

You do have a tendency to skip a thought or two... How very convenient of you to ignore the fact that European Muslims still do have high birth rates: around 3 in countries like France & the UK for instance, about double that of the natives

I did not find it very relevant to comment on, when we can already see the demographic decline in many middle eastern nations begin. In just the last 20 years many of them had birthrates per woman at over 4+ now many are only at replacement level at 2.2, like turkiye. Its only going to get worse in these nations. This source suggests, an immigrants birthrates mirrors its home countries. With the decline of Muslim birthrates beginning to happen, the immigrants from these nations will have less children too.

I wouldn't be so sure about that... the average income of Europe post WWII is less than the average income of Africa today. So, maybe by a couple of decades.
I'm not sure where you have got that information from. Would you like to cite this statement?

Time has told. Muslims always have higher birth rates, wherever they are. Evidently due to strong Family values. For instance, the countries with least female participation in workforce are all Muslim countries. Muslim women would rather leave their jobs & take care of their families. 
You appear to be having contradictory statements. At one minute Europeans dominated the worlds population, the next minute Muslims always have higher birthrates. If Muslims always had higher birthrates it would be demographically impossible for Europeans to have ever surpassed them. Muslims currently have higher birthrates because they're generally poorer. Its mostly because of that. Muslim nations are usually significantly poorer. 

- Evidence for what?! That abandoning Family in favor of Labour does not lead to lower birth rates?
well im sure we would both agree having women in the workplace does affect birthrates. But im asking how much? i want to know how much. Is it 0.1 births per woman or 1.2 births per woman? clearly the latter is much worse than the former, and if it is the case may make us have a broader discussion on whether the way the west currently functions is viable. 

- English, learn it. I said "by the end of the 19th century". There wasn't much global Colonialism in the 1800s was there! Regardless, in the 1900s, Western population (Europe, America & settlements) accounted for some 38% of global population, & the combined population of China & India accounted for some 41%.
You are aware the 1800's are the 19th century, no? if you actually wanted a 20th century demographic i can get you that too, but not much changed. heres another demographic map This map tells us the British empire constituted 23% of the worlds population. But if we click the "show" button on the British empire, we find out 300 million of that demographic was from Indians, not Europeans. You could add Britain, France, and the United states' population together in the 19th century and it still wasn't more than India. You're also once more still counting all of Europe vs. one country, which is ridiculous. If i counted the white declining population in the modern day, it still accounts for at least 500 million people on Earth, so still relative to India. Why are you counting the entirety of Europe vs. one country?

You're proving my case. The major European -later Colonial- states then (according to your own source) constituted a quarter of global population, also making up almost the entirety of Europe's population.
 Yes, it makes sense for an entire continent to have 15% of the worlds population. This is still relatively the case with Europe. Its just now not dominated by France, Germany and the UK anymore and  Are you saying Britain was capable of doing what it did purely because of its population's size? that once more i find ridiculous. Britain had technological advantages. Do you really think the British empire in the 1800's was sending  hundreds of thousands of soldiers to fight in other continents? That's just not practical. We can see how Russia can barely send its army past its own borders in the modern day. What really happened is what you said, Indians sold one another out. Backstabbing each other, which let the British take advantage. Not manpower, but tactics and timing.

- Your ignorance keeps showing. There was no India in the 1800s. The Indian Subcontinent then had more states & kingdoms than Europe. 
Relevant how? they're still the ethnic predecessors of modern day Indians. I know it isnt modern day india. 

Here again you are proving my point. The Ottomans had less people than individual European countries like France, UK, Germany... (their predecessors) each. European population increased from 80 million in mid 17th century to some 500 million by the end of the 19th century. 
So much for Muslims always having higher birthrates. 

Yet, we consistently across the board see Muslims having higher birth rates than their counterparts everywhere in the world, no matter the income level, education, contraception access & everything in between. In Africa, Muslim nations always have higher birthrates than their Christian neighbors. Even within single nations, Muslims always have the highest birthrates. In India, more than Hindus. In Nigeria, more than Christians. In Palestine, more than Jews...etc.  
Muslims within these nations are also much poorer and less educated on average. Again, im confident Muslim's demographics will fall. I'll listen to the experts. We can look at historic trends and see Muslims don't always have children the faster either. That's just not true. You will see your demographics fall below replacement. 
bmdrocks21
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@zedvictor4
I’m not reading all that
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@Yassine
 "Why I Support LGBT & Feminism" 

"That LGBT+Feminism is the shortest & amplest path to population collapse. White populations fertility is currently at about half replacement rate, & declining. This is the generation which grew up in the 70s & 80s, during 2nd & 3rd wave Feminism. The upcoming generation, of which close to half are LGBT+, will likely half the fertility, to probably quarter replacement rate; since LGBT+ contribution to fertility is, well, insignificant. Half replacement rate means half the population over a life expectancy cycle, idem for a quarter. Specifically, the 600 million Whites in the world will become 300 million by the end of the century at half replacement rate, & 150 million at quarter replacement rate. "

Where am I confused?