Most people dont know how badly the pedophiles are treated in prison

"Other sexual deviance have had volunteers come forward despite probable attack. There should be a few"

There have been. I already mentioned the book "The Trauma Myth" in which there have been plenty of cases where people came forward and talked about their sexual experience as children.

The books authors, despite not being pedophiles or promoting pedophilia, were labeled as pedophile supporters. 

The fact that positive cases never get published in the media is the reason people usually dont know about them.

"Granted I didn't take polls but that was no my impression growing up with three siblings"

I started masturbating at 7 and had interest in sexual activities because they bring pleasure.

Many articles and studies have shown that children masturbate.

Even APA, the great opponent of pedophilia, admitted that children are sexual beings.

So unless you claim that children cant get pleasure from sexual activities, I dont know what is your argument.

--> @ADreamOfLiberty

It seems that just googling "do children masturbate" is enough to find a bunch of sites that all claim the same: Yes.

They all agree that even babies and toddlers masturbate

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/daughter-s-habit-at-bedtime-has-become-a-worry-for-us-1.639036

https://www.askdrsears.com/topics/parenting/child-rearing-and-development/sexuality/masturbation-six-ways-manage-it/

https://www.defendyoungminds.com/post/do-you-know-why-kids-masturbate-therapist-gives-5-reasons-top-tips-healthy-response-plan

https://www.kidshealth.org.nz/sexual-behaviour-children-young-people

https://hhma.org/healthadvisor/pa-bmasturb-hhg/

Notice that in almost every link, masturbation is described as something that upsets parents. So children dont even have freedom to masturbate in peace.

Now, since children are protected from knowledge, and when they discover the knowledge they are punished and put to shame, surely even worse will apply if they are in a relationship.

https://parenting.stackexchange.com/questions/23611/is-it-possible-for-an-8-year-girl-to-be-sexually-abused-and-enjoy-it

This site seems to imply there was a case of loving relationship.

When discovered, the first thing that happened was that the person who discovered it told everyone about it. Then everyone was very upset because of this "love". Since a girl didnt seem to agree with them, one of the suggested solutions was to bring her into counseling so that she could be convinced to agree.

--> @Shila

I cant say I had a proper childhood since my religious nut job parents believed that masturbation is the greatest crime on Earth and equal to murder.

It didnt stop me from masturbating, but I did spend nights in fear wondering if God will punish me.

Such things seem funny now, but one must wonder what would be the difference between being free and being protected like that.

his is a quote by Susan Clancy the writer of the book “The Trauma Myth” you mention.

 

“Sexual abuse is never OK. No matter what the circumstances are, or how it impacts the victims, sexual abuse is an atrocious, despicable crime. Just because it rarely physically or psychologically damages the child does not mean it is OK. Harmfulness is not the same thing as wrongfulness. And why is it wrong? Because children are incapable of consent.”

They all agree that even babies and toddlers masturbate

We think of this as sexual because we look at this from an adult viewpoint. For a child, this is just curiosity. It just happens that some of the things that they are curious about have sexual functions.

-> @Shila

"Most parent would discourage their children from masturbating religious or not."

True, but only religious nutjobs tell their children that its a sin and that God will burn them for it.

I am not saying that religious nutjob parenting is a bad style of parenting.

In fact, it carries many benefits for the parents.

They can lie to their children as much as they want while being justified in the eyes of every other nutjob and in the eyes of God.

It doesnt matter how many mistakes they made, since their religion says God forgives almost everything as long as you are a believer.

Parents can even label their children as possessed in case they show signs of atheism.

Children can be told about all the things God will do to them in case they turn atheist.

So really, its a fun system for parents.

Those things are not relevant to my argument.

My argument was:

"Children can feel pleasure from sexual activities."

Children know that pleasure is gained from sexual activities.

When they want this form of pleasure, they consent to sexual activities.

The only way for you to deny this would be to deny that children can feel pleasure.

As I said, the books author is not a pedophile nor supporting pedophilia.

However, the author was still accused of enabling pedophilia simply because in her book she said there is no trauma for the child and that harm is very small.

She simply included statistics, and stories of sexual experiences in her book.

She was also the one to say that in 90% of cases, victims dont want for pedophile to go to prison.

Of course, she could have gone a step further and explore only consensual relationships between adults and children.

However, that would probably result in favorable case for pedophiles and a bunch of death threats to the author.

Her opinion is irrelevant, the data is what is at issue.

I simply used the book as it mentioned cases where there was no harm, and cases where there was little harm.

The author herself admits that harm is small in general, and that there were cases without harm.

If she focused more on those cases where there was no harm, she would be able to find out what makes them different.

She pointed out that children cant consent.

Her opinion is not important, however, her studies are.

Of course, it is quite possible that she said it out of fear. She was already labeled as pedophile supporter simply for doing this study.

Even if she honestly thinks it, its her opinion unrelated to the studies she did.

Her opinion is irrelevant, the data is what is at issue.

As the author of the book her opinion is perfectly relevant.

-->

@Best.Korea

-> @Shila

"Most parent would discourage their children from masturbating religious or not."

True, but only religious nutjobs tell their children that its a sin and that God will burn them for it.

I am not saying that religious nutjob parenting is a bad style of parenting.

In fact, it carries many benefits for the parents.

They can lie to their children as much as they want while being justified in the eyes of every other nutjob and in the eyes of God.

It doesnt matter how many mistakes they made, since their religion says God forgives almost everything as long as you are a believer.

Parents can even label their children as possessed in case they show signs of atheism.

Children can be told about all the things God will do to them in case they turn atheist.

So really, its a fun system for parents.

-->

@Shila

That happened when I told them I dont believe in God.

I am questioning whether the activities are truly sexual

Its not important if child thinks its truly sexual or fun or exciting or interesting or some other form of fun.

Whats important is that child consents.

The reason for consent, as I said, can be pleasure.

--> @Best.Korea

I am questioning whether the activities are truly sexual

Its not important if child thinks its truly sexual or fun or exciting or interesting or some other form of fun.

Whats important is that child consents. 

The reason for consent, as I said, can be pleasure.

Consent is important, but it is not sufficient.

The responsibility to avoid a mechanism of harm that either through lack of communication, cognition, or wisdom cannot be delegated to someone else must be considered.

In this case no amount of gentleness or pleasure is going to change the fact that when the prepubescent child finds out (later) that what was being disguised as tickling, caressing, or some trivial game at the time was actually a massive turn on for the adult they are going to feel like they were deceived and betrayed.

Society may amplify that impression but it is unlikely (in my opinion) that society manufactures that impression out of whole cloth.

When puberty does its work you see orgasms, you see sexual attractions, you see porn... i.e. you see a complete sexual system coming together. That is the first time there is a chance to engage in sexual behavior as a partner.

To a book review perhaps, in debate evidence and logic are what matters. Studies are relevant when they introduce evidence. Expert analysis is relevant when it provides complex or creative logic.

A quote of a pure assertion that children cannot consent has no more weight than a quote from the same book claiming children aren't harmed at the time.

Isn’t it a bit  hypocritical that Western countries frown on pedophiles but child ponography  is on the rise.

It is the opinion of an expert in experimental psychopathology based on evidence acquired from interviewing those who have been subjected to sexual abuse as children and as such should be considered reasonable.

--> @Shila

Isn’t it a bit  hypocritical that Western countries frown on pedophiles but child ponography  is on the rise.

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