Blackwashing vs Whitewashing. The former is GOOD, the latter is BAD. Hypocrisy 101.

Author: TWS1405

Posts

Total: 96
TWS1405
TWS1405's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,048
3
4
7
TWS1405's avatar
TWS1405
3
4
7
K_Michael,

Boo hoo, they made a fictional character black. Sure, the original story was Danish or whatever, but mermaids definitionally don't live in Denmark, so they can be whatever ethnicity or mix of ethnicities the creators want.
For the record, I agree with you that mermaids are not inherently white, and they can be acted by anyone of any race/ethnic background. The problem I (and others) have is the fact that they blackwashed Ariel, a character made white with the Disney cartoon. If diversity was absolutely necessary, then the obvious solution would have been to create an absolutely new story featuring a mermaid played by a black actress. 

Its like complaining about having black Vulcans in Star Trek. There is no heritage or truth that's being "whitewashed" or "blackwashed."
No, it is not. Any alien race can be played by anyone. Leonard Nimoy and Mark Lenard were not the entirety of the Vulcan race. But whomever plays either role must be white. To do otherwise would really piss fans off because it would be a purposeful washing mischaracterization of the firmly established character.

Personally, I don't care either way. When Idris Elba was cast as Heimdall, I thought it was cool because Idris Elba is cool.
I could care less too, since it was a fictional superhero movie. 

When they cast Johnny Depp as Tanto, I thought it was fine because I like Johnny Depp as an actor.
That movie was obviously was a spoof on The Lone Ranger, making Tanto a goof ball like no other than Johnny Depp could play it.

By comparison, the whitewashing of historical figures such as Jesus Christ is a lot more sinister, to the point that some Christians have used the claim that dark skin is the mark of Cain and/or the curse of Ham as a justification of the slave trade and white supremacy, while ignoring the fact that Jesus was Middle Eastern.
Christ was not "whitewashed." Since Christianity was dominated by mostly Caucasians, Christ reflected that image. 



TWS1405
TWS1405's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,048
3
4
7
TWS1405's avatar
TWS1405
3
4
7
-->
@3RU7AL
I'd have to read up on history to have a stronger opinion, about it and conquerors,
well, when you grow up black or latin or asian or arab and you only see pictures of "white jesus" it sort of does a number on you
Really? Not buying it. If a historical character is what they are, they just are, and others have no choice but to accept it. And it doesn't do "a number" on them.
TWS1405
TWS1405's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,048
3
4
7
TWS1405's avatar
TWS1405
3
4
7
-->
@SkepticalOne
->@TWS1405
How does the character's skin color change the essence of the character? I couldn't care less if Ariel or James Bond are played by POC and see no good reason why anyone else should either. Sans objective evidence Mermaids and fictional secret agents come in only light skin tones, there is nothing objectively wrong being done here. 

Yes, mermaids are not inherently white, and they can be acted by anyone of any race/ethnic background. The problem I (and others) have is the fact that they blackwashed Ariel, a character made white with the Disney cartoon. If diversity was absolutely necessary, then the obvious solution would have been to create an absolutely new story featuring a mermaid played by a black actress. 

Get Bruce Willis to play Shaft. That white skin will change the essence of the character. 
Get DiCaprio to play Kunta Kinte. That white skin will change the essence of the character.

When characters are written specifically to be/represent a certain race/ethnicity and sex (M/F), actors must reflect that in order to accurately reflect what the author/creator of the character intended. 

If diversity is necessary, then a new character and storyline must be written. 
TWS1405
TWS1405's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,048
3
4
7
TWS1405's avatar
TWS1405
3
4
7
-->
@Athias
TWS1405
Instead of being creative, corporations like Disney are "blackwashing" traditional white characters, to be black like the Little Mermaid. Naturally it is causing backlash. The same as it has been for changing well-established characters like Superman and even 007, James Bond, to be "blackwashed" instead of the obvious solution: create your own new characters and stop ripping off well-established white (or other races) characters. All they are doing is causing further division. It's senseless and unneccesary.
Considering that most if not all of the characters you listed are gleaned from ancient mythologies--especially Ariel and Superman--complaining about the extent to which these figures have been "washed" is an exercise in futility.

Hardly. 

When characters are written specifically to be/represent a certain race/ethnicity and sex (M/F), actors must reflect that in order to accurately reflect what the author/creator of the character intended. 

If diversity is necessary, then a new character and storyline must be written. 

Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,035
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
It is more common for Hollywood to whitewash POC and no black would want to see any black washing of a white hero.
TWS1405
TWS1405's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,048
3
4
7
TWS1405's avatar
TWS1405
3
4
7
-->
@Shila
It is more common for Hollywood to whitewash POC and no black would want to see any black washing of a white hero.
It was done in Fantastic 4.
Perry White, Superman.
Spiderman in an alternate universe.
Samuel Jackson as Nick Furry.
Peter Mensah as Oenomaus in Spartacus (TV series)

Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 3,362
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Elliott
Imagine Flemmings objection to some other actors.

People 'can do different casting if they like, and sometimes it's actually rather interesting,

For me it's usually I just prefer what I grew up with,
Such as I preferred the original Robocop to the remake, nothing to do with race in that case.

I didn't even bother watching, other than the plot looking bad to me,
I just didn't care for the casting.

I'd have preferred a different cast/actor for Troy (film) - Wikipedia too, than Brad Pitt.

I imagine people find 'washing as they call it annoying, is because it seems often an attempt at diversity, than an attempt at a good movie,
People can be sensitive towards their ingroup, and perceived attacks, true or not, on it

or like Fate Stay Night making King Arthur a woman, it's based on predictions of what more people will watch, $,
Rather than about historical accuracy, well, fantasy anyhow the series.
Never seen Fate Stay Night myself.


Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,035
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@TWS1405
--> @Shila
It is more common for Hollywood to whitewash POC and no black would want to see any black washing of a white hero.
It was done in Fantastic 4.
Perry White, Superman.
Spiderman in an alternate universe.
Samuel Jackson as Nick Furry.
Peter Mensah as Oenomaus in Spartacus (TV series)
Those are not even black heroes.

TWS1405
TWS1405's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,048
3
4
7
TWS1405's avatar
TWS1405
3
4
7
-->
@Shila
It was done in Fantastic 4.
Perry White, Superman.
Spiderman in an alternate universe.
Samuel Jackson as Nick Furry.
Peter Mensah as Oenomaus in Spartacus (TV series)
Those are not even black heroes.

Ignorant denialist. 
SkepticalOne
SkepticalOne's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 1,720
3
3
7
SkepticalOne's avatar
SkepticalOne
3
3
7
-->
@TWS1405
When characters are written specifically to be/represent a certain race/ethnicity and sex (M/F), actors must reflect that in order to accurately reflect what the author/creator of the character intended. 
The little mermaid wasn't specifically written to be a certain race. It was Disney that chose to represent Ariel with a light skin tone, but Hans Christian Anderson merely described her skin as "clear". So, it's really too late to appeal to originalism....especially when we consider the story is drastically changed - Ariel got the prince, didn't turn into sea foam or become a children of the air in the end. The Disney version is drastically different than the original. So, why is dark skin tone out of bounds?
TWS1405
TWS1405's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,048
3
4
7
TWS1405's avatar
TWS1405
3
4
7
-->
@SkepticalOne
JFC!! Are you being obtuse on purpose or are you really that dense? 

Disney interpreted “clear” as being near/close to “white,” for the simple fact that no black person is “clear” in skin tone and/or physical description. 

Everyone in the entire WORLD has come to know/accept Ariel as “white.” To change that fact, a fact established for quite some time, is “black washing” when you cast a black woman to play a white character. 

Create your own damn storyline. Create your own new narrative and cast a black woman to play the mermaid. You don’t need to rip off and piggyback a white character in a faux call for diversity. It’s PC BS. 
SkepticalOne
SkepticalOne's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 1,720
3
3
7
SkepticalOne's avatar
SkepticalOne
3
3
7
-->
@TWS1405
for the simple fact that no black person is “clear” in skin tone and/or physical description. 
What do you mean by that? White people aren't "clear" in the transparent sense. For all we know HCA used that adjective to refer to unblemished skin - which can be applicable to dark skin tones. I think you're making a lot out of nothing.

Create your own damn storyline
That is literally what Disney did in 1989. Basically, you approve of the major changes to the storyline in 1989 and disapprove of the minor aesthetic changes in 2022. 

Perhaps you should strive for consistency so that your righteous indignation doesn't seem so petty and racist.

Elliott
Elliott's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 407
2
2
6
Elliott's avatar
Elliott
2
2
6
-->
@Lemming
Imagine Flemmings objection to some other actors.

People 'can do different casting if they like, and sometimes it's actually rather interesting,

For me it's usually I just prefer what I grew up with,
Such as I preferred the original Robocop to the remake, nothing to do with race in that case.

I didn't even bother watching, other than the plot looking bad to me,
I just didn't care for the casting.

I'd have preferred a different cast/actor for Troy (film) - Wikipedia too, than Brad Pitt.

I imagine people find 'washing as they call it annoying, is because it seems often an attempt at diversity, than an attempt at a good movie,
People can be sensitive towards their ingroup, and perceived attacks, true or not, on it

or like Fate Stay Night making King Arthur a woman, it's based on predictions of what more people will watch, $,
Rather than about historical accuracy, well, fantasy anyhow the series.
Never seen Fate Stay Night myself.
Personally I like dramas to be historically correct, even those with an element of fantasy and that includes casting.
 
I don’t have a problem with the casting of fantasy characters though, like mermaids or Spiderman … although Thor being a Norse god should probably look suitably Nordic.
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 3,362
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Elliott
Understandable.
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,035
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@TWS1405
--> @SkepticalOne
JFC!! Are you being obtuse on purpose or are you really that dense? 

Disney interpreted “clear” as being near/close to “white,” for the simple fact that no black person is “clear” in skin tone and/or physical description. 

Everyone in the entire WORLD has come to know/accept Ariel as “white.” To change that fact, a fact established for quite some time, is “black washing” when you cast a black woman to play a white character. 

Create your own damn storyline. Create your own new narrative and cast a black woman to play the mermaid. You don’t need to rip off and piggyback a white character in a faux call for diversity. It’s PC BS. 
There aren’t too many white heroes left except for fictional characters. Black-washing can only hurt white people.

TWS1405
TWS1405's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,048
3
4
7
TWS1405's avatar
TWS1405
3
4
7
-->
@Shila
*YAWN* 
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,035
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@Elliott
Personally I like dramas to be historically correct, even those with an element of fantasy and that includes casting.
 
I don’t have a problem with the casting of fantasy characters though, like mermaids or Spiderman … although Thor being a Norse god should probably look suitably Nordic.
How about a fantasy King Charles for a change?

Elliott
Elliott's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 407
2
2
6
Elliott's avatar
Elliott
2
2
6
-->
@Shila
How about a fantasy King Charles for a change?
Why would you change it?
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,035
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
--> @TWS1405
SkepticalOne: How does the character's skin color change the essence of the character? I couldn't care less if Ariel or James Bond are played by POC and see no good reason why anyone else should either. Sans objective evidence Mermaids and fictional secret agents come in only light skin tones, there is nothing objectively wrong being done here.
It will be interesting to see Kevin Hart playing James Bond.
TWS1405
TWS1405's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,048
3
4
7
TWS1405's avatar
TWS1405
3
4
7
-->
@Shila
It will be interesting to see Kevin Hart playing James Bond.
Not gonna happen.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@TWS1405
Really? Not buying it. If a historical character is what they are, they just are, and others have no choice but to accept it. And it doesn't do "a number" on them.
there is absolutely zero chance the historical jesus has white skin and silky brown hair
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,035
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@TWS1405
--> @Shila
It will be interesting to see Kevin Hart playing James Bond.
Not gonna happen
Are You are in favour of whitewashing,   watching James Bond playing  Kevin Hart?
TWS1405
TWS1405's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,048
3
4
7
TWS1405's avatar
TWS1405
3
4
7
-->
@Shila
@TWS1405
--> @Shila
It will be interesting to see Kevin Hart playing James Bond.
Not gonna happen
Are You are in favour of whitewashing,   watching James Bond playing  Kevin Hart?
Stupid question. 
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,035
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@TWS1405
--> @Shila
@TWS1405
--> @Shila
It will be interesting to see Kevin Hart playing James Bond.
Not gonna happen
Are You are in favour of whitewashing,   watching James Bond playing  Kevin Hart?
Stupid question. 
Kevin Hard cannot be imitated.

Athias
Athias's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 3,192
3
3
9
Athias's avatar
Athias
3
3
9
-->
@TWS1405
Hardly. 

When characters are written specifically to be/represent a certain race/ethnicity and sex (M/F), actors must reflect that in order to accurately reflect what the author/creator of the character intended. 

If diversity is necessary, then a new character and storyline must be written. 
Are the characters written specifically to represent a certain so-called race/ethnicity or sex, or are they written to convey certain notions? So-called race/ethnicity or sex can add a "cultural" dimension, which would make "washing" the character feel out of place, but again, as I've stated characters like Ariel and Superman are gleaned from mythology, the stories for which were often retooled and transmuted throughout regions of the world. For example, do you think Superman is a specifically so-called "white" character? I'm sorry to tell you this, but his story was "stolen" coming from, at least what I can tell, Greek, Roman and Kemetic mythology. Not to mention, Superman's an "alien" making the subject of his being "white" or Caucasian as a description of his so-called "race" all the more questionable. Perhaps, as has been done before, this classic stories are being revamped to suit the audience?

Athias
Athias's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 3,192
3
3
9
Athias's avatar
Athias
3
3
9
-->
@3RU7AL
there is absolutely zero chance the historical jesus has white skin and silky brown hair
Not to mention, his description in the Bible is anything but.

bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@SkepticalOne
tone, but Hans Christian Anderson merely described her skin as "clear"

“Her eyes as blue as the deepest sea”. I recognize that it’s a fairy tale, but you really thinking that clear skin and blue eyes could mean anything?
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,035
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@Athias
--> @3RU7AL
there is absolutely zero chance the historical jesus has white skin and silky brown hair
Not to mention, his description in the Bible is anything but.
The Romans would not have crucified Jesus if he did have white skin.

SkepticalOne
SkepticalOne's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 1,720
3
3
7
SkepticalOne's avatar
SkepticalOne
3
3
7
-->
@bmdrocks21
It seems to me OP is upset that the Disney "whitewashing" is being questioned, but ultimately it is a fish in a fairy tale. It's not worth getting overly bothered about exact physical characteristics. 
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@Shila
The Romans would not have crucified Jesus if he did have white skin.
Source???