Consider that 1 in 20,000 men have no Y chromosome. About 40% of men also lose Y chromosomes as they age. Does that mean they are no longer men? If not then being a man seems to be predicated on things other than chromones. And people would say maleness even more so than being a man is about way more than chromosomes, because maleness is about gendered stereotypes and gendered constructs in a society (not just having a dick) that dictate how people perceive males or experience males or interact with males. There's more to add here re: post modernism but eh it's a lot.
Men and women as groups have different distributions on hundreds of thousands of traits, there is not just one thing that makes you a man or a woman. I've had this argument with people before but it basically means you can't define anything at all. Basically no humans are anatomically perfect. An example I gave is that I am missing a joint on my pinky toe that most other humans would have, it cant flex upward. If we were drawing an anatomically perfect human the joint would be there. It would obviously be absurd to say I'm not a human because I'm missing one part of the human body. Similarly, a women who is XXY or a man who loses his penis doesn't change their sex, they just vary from the distribution in a more obvious way because on these traits its less of a distribution and more of a binary. It's one of the most simple concepts in the world, even animals understand sex and gender. We've just outsmarted ourselves
With all due respect how do you know this? Do you know anyone that's transitioned? I'm willing to bet that you don't know a single person that's trans and you're cherry picking second-hand stories or minority examples that get amplified online by right-wingers excited to say "See I told ya they would regret it!" whenever they come across one. I've never met a trans person that did not have long and hard conversations with their family and doctors. Every single one of them saw a therapist. Even with accepting parents the majority of the world does not approve and trans people have a lot of explaining to do. What is giving you the idea that tough conversations aren't happening with them? Because of celebs posting she/her on twitter? Hollywood isn't real life.
Anecdotes are worthless but I do know two people from high school who now identify as trans. In both cases they struggled with anxiety and depression before deciding to transition and in neither case is the transition particularly convincing. It's pretty obvious that it hasn't solved their underlying mental health issues and just makes people sad but they're afraid that doing anything but enthusiastically affirming their ideas about gender would hurt them further. Which I understand because I would do the same thing.
This really isn't that complicated at all so I don't feel like I need to do some kind of personal odyssey into the trans community to figure out what's going on. Facts:
-This has exploded in popularity recently and there has never been a hint in human culture or science previously that 2% of the population needs to change their bodies drastically
-The overwhelming majority (often 100%) of youths visiting "gender clinics" have multiple mental health comorbities clouding their judgement
-There is a large warm and accepting community that these often very anxious/awkward/isolated youths can join, both in real life and online
-This trend has an unfortunate ideological angle to it. Nobody in a position of authority wants to repeat the mistakes of the past, so they overcorrect and aren't critical enough
-Transition is difficult and rarely as successful as advocates make it out to be (the children are not informed of this)
-The treatments are not reversible, patients will be left with deeper/higher voices the rest of their lives, excess/lack of body hair, poorly developed genitals, poor bone density, patients are not informed of the irreversible nature of the treatments. I know this because trans advocates in favor of this argues that it is in fact reversible! You can just get fake tits if you lose yours after all
-Transition has not been documented to solve the mental health problems ailing these youth
-Peer countries are universally moving against "gender affirming care" with a rapidity almost unheard of in medicine
Conclusion: The trans identification is not the root of the problem. Giving these kids hormone treatment or surgeries is barbaric
Explain to me how it's VERY hip to be trans and how people's lives improve overall as the result of claiming to be trans. Are you gonna say that they get a lot of 'likes' on social media as if we're supposed to discount all the vitriol and death threats they get on social media and in real life? Are you gonna say that experiencing kindness and support by some is supposed to override all the hate and shame from others? 90% of people surveyed have said they have no interest in dating a trans person (I'm confident the real number is much higher). I could go on but I don't want to put words in your mouth and make assumptions. So if you don't mind please tell me why it's great to be trans. Explain it to me like I'm 5.
I think your opinion is influenced by what you may have experienced as a youth. But the world has changed drastically. I can't think of anything LESS cool now than being homophobic. There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that for the overwhelming majority the amount of love and support they receive for "coming out" far outweighs any hate they may get from people they probably didn't like before and now have the power to punish. For many who are awkward, don't fit in, have mental health issues, it's the first time in an extremely long time they've gotten positive attention and the first time they've ever had a close clique of friends. For others, the phenomenon of kids identifying as trans or nonbinary clusters in friend groups, this is very well documented. It's absolutely a social contagion--you even admit in this argument that it's incredibly unlikely that 2% of people are born into the wrong body, but this is the current % of youth who identify as trans is. If they aren't actually in the "wrong" body doing things to that body that can't be undone is a serious issue, especially at a young age before they can give consent to things like sex or drugs.
There is at least one survey with 28,000 trans people that checks in with them every few years. The one I'm thinking of has been going on for over a decade though I'm sure there are others. But you're shifting goal posts here in a really obvious way. Self-reported feelings are the ONLY way you can know someone's feelings (maybe until we get further along with brain mapping). Think about how ridiculous what you're saying is: that we can't tell people are really satisfied because we can't trust them, yet apparently we can trust them when they say they're NOT satisfied. That's a little convenient don't you think?
In addition to the studies Bone's posted, and the fact that this is not about *children* (the majority of whom desist and must be very thankful they didn't transition) this misses the point. You should expect little different from asking someone "Hey, do you regret that irreversible thing you did as a result of your obsessive fixation?" Not only is it difficult for anyone to admit a mistake was made, if the fixation still exists and importantly if the ideology is wrong and their opinions on what they needed was always just as wrong as the people who want their legs cut off, asking them how they felt about it misses the point entirely.
If I had to develop a study it would focus on overall wellbeing. Does the patient have a broader circle of close friends post transition? Have their other mental health issues improved (if they are there at all big red flag)? How is their physical health, has the transition improved that (spoiler: never) Did the transition/surgery make their day to day life drastically more difficult, for example how painful and difficult is it having to keep a wound open constantly or dealing with migraines from exogenous hormones? For people whose families accept them, has their relationship improved at all post transition? Are they doing better professionally, do they report higher work satisfaction, etc. How are they spending their spare time, are they engaged in fulfilling hobbies now that they can finally live their life the way they want, or are they spending even more time posting online about being trans. Are they actually "satisfied" or is it a case like I made in my initial post where the person is so fixated on being a transsexual that it consumes their entire identity.
Once again if there are no studies about these people then how are you making objective claims about them? I actually know someone that identified as trans but doesn't anymore. She never expressed interest in transition to me - she was already pretty butch. I have so many questions for her and others for sure. But the fact that she never went through with a transition only bolsters my point that those who do go through with such a life altering process are probably as sure as they can be barring some type of psychological disorder. I acknowledge that a lot of people who claim to be trans are just deeply confused. But those people don't invalidate all the rest.
How sure were you of ANYTHING when you were 13??? My God. We aren't talking about mature adults here
If a 14 year old consents to sex with a 45 year old teacher, are you good with that? Just expressing their sexuality, right? Teenagers, especially young ones, are famously difficult to manipulate and well informed
What on earth gives you the impression that I would oppose something just because it's new? By that logic we would have no advancement in medicine, science or culture. Mr. Wright are you really going to defy gravity with that airplane? Ms. Bridges are you really going to be the first black girl in an all white school when we don't know the consequences of integration? Mr. Jenner do you really think we should inject ourselves with smallpox to get rid of smallpox with this so-called "vaccine?"
I don't accept that because there is little research on something that it should never be tested or researched going forward. That is the antithesis of what I believe. If someone is desperate enough to volunteer to be a pioneer with a risky surgery they believe could save or significantly improve the quality of their life, that's their prerogative after consulting about potential risks. If they're wrong they will have to live with their decision just like everybody else on this planet that regrets an irreversible decision.
You are comparing man conquering the skies to medical experimentation on mentally ill children. You should reassess this take
