Should 14 year old be allowed to undergo breast augmentation surgery?
With therapy consultations and parental consent maybe. Teens permanently altar their body with tattoos and all kinds of plastic surgery.
What age should children be allowed to purchase alcohol? Join the military? Purchase a firearm? Adopt a child?
I don't disagree that age regulations can be a good idea. The subject didn't imply this thread was only about kids though.
My problem is with children who were very clearly groomed and manipulated into doing irreversible harm to their body.
I have a huge problem with children being groomed into organized religion but I have no say in how other people parent. I'm not trying to be facetious with this comment either. The brainwashing people instill in their kids from birth is horrifying. Have you ever seen Jesus Camp? The only thing creepier than watching a cult pray or speak in tongues is watching little kids do it.
The “mind your own business” line of thought ends when it comes to children.
It's very hard to legally override parents and it should be.
Again, the “so what” is that we are talking about literal children who are making a mistake
Says YOU.
I care about vulnerable people. I feel really bad for someone who destroys their body before they’re even in their 20s.
I care about vulnerable people too! I don't want anyone to "destroy" their body but I also don't think outsiders should be able to dictate what anyone does with their body. I feel bad for those who don't have the option to transition in accordance with their deepest desires (especially adults). And something tells me if people really "cared" about trans folk it would translate to some behavior other than standing in legal and social opposition to each and every thing they stand for. I never see conservatives sticking up for those suffering or being tormented and bullied. Instead they mock trans people relentlessly and accuse them of being mentally ill groomers who deserve to be shamed and suppressed. How kind! Thanks for caring!
Do you honestly believe that 2% of a sexually dimorphic species are people born in the “wrong” body? Because that’s the current percentage of youth that identify as transgender.
I'm not sure but I doubt it. I think gender is such a convoluted and complicated social construct that there is bound to be confusion. There are probably a lot of people who are just more masculine and more feminine now believing they are "born in the wrong body" as opposed to accepting that they're just different from the norm. A lot of gay people probably fall into this.
That’s why we shouldn’t encourage unhealthy fixations, especially in children.
People said this about homosexuality for the longest time (and still do) which is one reason I find it to be such a shitty argument. Ignorance is not a virtue. Just because something is completely foreign to you and you have never experienced it or can't understand it or don't like it doesn't mean other people's experience of it is unhealthy or invalid.
What especially grinds my gears about it is the big stigma about telling the truth, which is that they will never be the gender they wish to be and will never pass.
Trans people are WELL AWARE they're not the gender they wish to be, so why would you feel the need to reiterate that to them -- because you care about them so much? I have a few trans friends and most pass, some don't. But the biggest factor is that the individual feels better presenting themselves to the world a certain way whether they pass or not. I mean this is like saying a woman shouldn't wear make-up because she doesn't pass for pretty anyway. Maybe the world still sees her as unattractive but SHE the make-up wearer feels better about herself.
There isn’t really much of any evidence on post transition outcomes for children since this began in earnest very very recently. Like the past five years.
So then how can you sit here and talk about the long-term damage and massive regret if you say there's no research?
There actually is research but I acknowledge it's fairly new. All research is new until it's not. There are studies that have looked at thousands of trans people and the overwhelming majority of those that transition have no regrets and live happier, healthier lives after transitioning. Have you found research that says otherwise?
These drugs and surgeries have long term irreversible effects. Where is the harm in discouraging minors from transitioning before they can make decisions? Don’t you remember what it was like to be a teen?
Yes! I was a sexually confused closet case with depression! Once I left Catholic school and my Catholic family to go to college where my sexuality was embraced and not condemned, I became happier and healthier than ever before. Crazy, right?
I don't think there is harm in discouraging a kid from transitioning but there could be harm in preventing it depending on the person. There should be long, tough conversations with parents, doctors and therapists to ensure a minor (if we're talking about minors only now for some reason) has a good understanding of what they're getting into. It obviously should not be taken lightly. But I truly don't believe a kid is going to be manipulated or persuaded into transitioning unless it's something they REALLY think is necessary for their well-being. Being trans is not cool. Being trans is not hip. Trans people struggle to find partners (and peers and friends and jobs). They deal with discrimination all the time.
Unless humanity and teenagers have done a sociological 180 I'm not aware of, kids are not going to be clamoring to desperately try and join an Outgroup that is notoriously rejected, bullied and shamed. So if someone tells me they're trans I'm not going to presume it's because the libtards put a trans character on TV.
But it’s true that I have a bias because I have a philosophical objection to the entire idea. If a male patient is fixated on being a woman, has his healthy penis removed and replaced with what will be a festering wound the rest of his life, I don’t think that’s a positive outcome just because he reports that he’s glad it happened. Not any more than I would think it’s a positive outcome that someone who wanted their healthy legs removed got their wish. In both cases I view their decision making capacity to be stunted by mental illness.
I'm glad you recognize your bias. We all have bias. The fact that I'm gay which straight people can't understand or experience makes it easier for me to accept that there could be other elements of gender or sexuality that is foreign to me but equally valid.
I think the difference between the penis and leg example is that the penis is affiliated with gender whereas your leg is not. If someone wanted to chop off their penis to align more with societal expectations of "femaleness," that makes sense to me though it's really sad. This is one reason people should stop putting so much emphasis on sexual organs when it comes to gender. Gender is a social construct. You don't need to chop your dick off to dress or behave a certain way. But let's not pretend that conservatives are fine with men walking around in makeup and heels. The reality is ya'll are going to ridicule and condemn people for being different no matter what. That's why if I were trans I couldn't find a fuck to give about someone else's opinion if they paid me. All of this nonsense about "concern for the well being" of trans people is such horse shit. It's not caring, it's controlling.
Not accusing you of anything and I’m not about to get on a social justice high horse but how is that not insanely sexist to say that a part of a woman’s body is so much a sexual object that who cares if it’s damaged or destroyed in the pursuit of looks
There are a few fallacies at play here. I never said breasts were a sexual object. I said I don't care if someone gets a mastectomy or "destroys" their breasts because the people doing so have no desire or expectation to breast feed. Your desire for a someone to use their breasts to feed babies (or the evolutionary function of breasts) should have no bearing on what someone chooses to do with their own bodies.
I was also flippant about getting new implants (in the case someone did have regrets) to highlight that any plastic surgery is preferable to suicide and debilitating depression. So if the choice is between having breasts added/removed or killing myself, then yes "who cares" about top surgery if the alternative is death.
