MAGA Martyr

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#1
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With Ashli Babbitt, Donald Trump and the GOP have found a perfect martyr to rationalize their perpetual victimhood and inspire future “freedom fighters” to assist in their full-scale assault on democracy.

Trump is a big baby who is is always claiming to be a victim. People are treating him very unfairly!

He is using that same language to gin up support for MAGA nut job Ashli Babbitt who was shot and killed by Capital police as she was breaching a broken window during the assault on January 6.

Trump was on TV today speaking by phone to Babbitt’s parents who were attending a rally in support of 1-6 mob members who are being held in jail.

MAGA Republicans are a disgrace trying to claim the police officer murdered Babbitt.


#2
ADreamOfLiberty
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in support of 1-6 mob members who are being held in jail.
Without conviction or even charges. You know like a banana republic.... or fascist state.


MAGA Republicans are a disgrace trying to claim the police officer murdered Babbitt.
A lesser disgrace than those who claim George Floyd was murdered. He wasn't even killed by the police. Babbitt definitely died from the bullet.
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#3
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Without conviction or even charges. You know like a banana republic.... or fascist state.
That’s a lie. America has always held some accused criminals without bail to await trial. They have been charged with crimes. You’re a liar.

George Floyd wasn’t  murdered. He wasn't even killed by the police.
Another lie. You’re a habitual liar just like Trump.
#4
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America has always held some accused criminals without bail to await trial.
Never before (excluding the civil war) without bail, without charges, without trial dates, on misdemeanors, for over a year, for political reasons.

They have been charged with crimes.
Not all. Some have been charged, but the prosecutors refuse to schedule a trial. The judges in DC lack... wait let me get the approved DART language right: the tender ministrations of a judicial apparatus willing to punch an 8mm hole in their skull.

Apparently that's not a threat around here.

That’s a lie.

You’re a liar.

Another lie. You’re a habitual liar just like Trump.
Search your feelings, you know it to be true!
#5
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@ADreamOfLiberty
America has always held some accused criminals without bail to await trial.
Never before (excluding the civil war) without bail, without charges, without trial dates, on misdemeanors, for over a year, for political reasons.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
All it took was a bullet to start the Boston Massacre and the Storming of the Bastille.

Democrats should really get their fingers off the triggers if they don't want history to repeat.
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Well technically fighting with al-Qaeda would not be a misdemeanor but I take your point.

All unjust incarceration must have consequences for those who made the decision to imprison or continue imprisonment.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Imagine being that downs kid siding with the Kent State National Guard mowing down American citizens.
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#9
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Never before (excluding the civil war) without bail, without charges, without trial dates, on misdemeanors, for over a year, for political reasons.
Bullshit. They have been charged and they were charged with felonies and they were charged because they broke the law.

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#10
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Search your feelings, you know it to be true!
feelings? Are they being treated unfairly? Is it not fair? Trump and these losers sound like a child.

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@ADreamOfLiberty
“Statistics provided by the District of Columbia US Attorney’s office reveal that more than a quarter of those arrested — 255 defendants — have been charged with “assaulting, resisting, or impeding officers or employees”. Of those 255, 85 have been charged with using “deadly or dangerous” weapons or causing injury to law enforcement officers.
The DC US Attorney’s office also said approximately 280 people have pleaded guilty to charges that will carry sentences of incarceration. Seven of those have been sentenced to prison terms as long as 63 months.
An additional number of defendants — around 40, according to a report by two Republican members of Congress released in December — are housed in a facility at the District of Columbia jail because they have been determined to be too dangerous to release or have violated their release conditions. 

So far, roughly 165 of the 800+ cases brought as a result of the January 6 attack have been fully adjudicated, with a total of 65 defendants receiving sentences to either jail or prison terms. Another 50 have been sentenced to home detention”



STOP WATCHING FOX NEWS! IT JUST MAKES YOU DUMBER!

#12
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Bullshit.
Truth

They have been charged and they were charged with felonies and they were charged because they broke the law.
Not all have been charged.

Search your feelings, you know it to be true!
feelings?
It's a star wars reference.


Are they being treated unfairly? Is it not fair? Trump and these losers sound like a child.
Those babies want their rights under the purported social contract, losers!


STOP WATCHING FOX NEWS! IT JUST MAKES YOU DUMBER!
I have not directly or intentionally watched fox news since they censored Trump. That marked them as a propaganda organization. News doesn't censor matters of public interest.

As for making me dumber, I haven't yet degraded to the point where I cannot recognize that 1/4 < 1, or 25% is less than 100%. Let it be noted that "all" and "100%" are synonyms.

Unlike you:
“Statistics provided by the District of Columbia US Attorney’s office reveal that more than a quarter of those arrested

280 people have pleaded guilty


255 defendants — have been charged
<EXTREME sarcasm> More people plead guilty than were charged... that's sounds like a typical day in a fair and equitable justice system. </EXTREME sarcasm>

An additional number of defendants — around 40, according to a report by two Republican members of Congress released in December — are housed in a facility at the District of Columbia jail because they have been determined to be too dangerous to release
Additional to what? To the 255 charged, so 40 uncharged, held for over a year, because some filthy fascist scum judge put in power by some filthy fascist scum politician thinks they're too dangerous.

I think those fascist scum are too dangerous to be walking free. This level of disregard for the very foundation of the nation is treasonous.

or have violated their release conditions. 
Yes, I've seen some of those release conditions; signing letters of suplication and self-abasement stating that the election was legitimate.

WHAT LAW GIVES A JUDGE THE FUCKING POWER TO HOLD SOMEONE UNTIL THEY RECANT 1ST AMENDMENT PROTECTED SPEECH!?

Oh what I would love to see, ever so dearly is for each and every person who supports this to be treated exactly the same. The Golden Rule has a flip side, an eye for an eye. You call Trump a liar? How about two years in solitary unless you sign a letter stating he is "the most honest person in history... ever... he's just stupendous."

Ah and you have to make sure not to complain about it either, lest someone call you a baby. Take your 600 days of political incarceration on the chin you loser.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Well technically fighting with al-Qaeda would not be a misdemeanor but I take your point.

All unjust incarceration must have consequences for those who made the decision to imprison or continue imprisonment.
i believe they were being held "pending charges"
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#14
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I have not directly or intentionally watched fox news since they censored Trump. That marked them as a propaganda organization. News doesn't censor matters of public interest.
You are a full blown MAGA whack job. Supporting Trump most likely because you are a white man who is afraid of what equal rights for all might mean for you. 

This level of disregard for the very foundation of the nation is treasonous.
I bet you have no concern for any black Americans held without bail.

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@3RU7AL
Well technically fighting with al-Qaeda would not be a misdemeanor but I take your point.

All unjust incarceration must have consequences for those who made the decision to imprison or continue imprisonment.
i believe they were being held "pending charges"
Well that's nice, but it's semantics isn't it. It doesn't matter who hands who what paper. Justice delayed is justice denied.


I have not directly or intentionally watched fox news since they censored Trump. That marked them as a propaganda organization. News doesn't censor matters of public interest.
You are a full blown MAGA whack job. Supporting Trump most likely because you are a white man who is afraid of what equal rights for all might mean for you. 
You haven't been keeping up with the rhetoric, equal rights stands in the way of "equity", the only solution for past discrimination is future discrimination.

I'm not afraid of what equal rights might mean, I'm afraid of what's going to happen when that level of equality under the law that we had achieved is taken away; and if you were a philosopher historian to the degree that every citizen of a democracy should be you would be too.


This level of disregard for the very foundation of the nation is treasonous.
I bet you have no concern for any black Americans held without bail.
I have concern for unjustified detainment of any kind.

If someone is held without bail for a true crime (not a victimless crime), a truly impartial jury finds them guilty, and the time they were incarcerated is less than the punishment for the crime no I don't have any concern.

If they were detained or incarcerated without charge, with charge, whatever; and the charges are dropped (or never filed), or a jury considers the evidence so weak that even suspicion was unwarranted; then I am concerned.

In fact I think it's a fundamental flaw in the system that anyone is given authority to use force on others and even when it is determined that there was insufficient justification they say "oops better luck next time"

There needs to be consequences, things turn to shit when people are not personally motivated to do the right thing. To produce, to not fuck each other over. Cops, prosecutors, even judges must be subject to punishment to the degree that their choices to use force on others prove to be unjustified.

I'm saying that when a cop arrests someone for not giving their name, a prosecutor charges with insufficient evidence, a judge approves a warrant and these actions are proven to be against an innocent person or cruel and unusual those cops, prosecutors, and judges who exercised power against innocence must suffer a portion of the penalty they tried to inflict.

It need not be 1:1 in all cases, but it needs to be proportional or exponential up to 1:1. The only way people stop abusing power is when it hurts them to abuse power. The only way people produce is when they are rewarded for producing. This is the difference between naive idealism and sound political philosophy, trust in self-interest and craft every system so that self-interest and group-interest align.

I know it will make some reluctant to arrest, charge, etc... that's the price we need to pay just as we have paid the price through the due process that has existed for hundreds of years.

As for race, I will not engage in even pretending I give a shit about it. I'm color blind for philosophical reasons of the deepest kind.
#16
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@ADreamOfLiberty
A lesser disgrace than those who claim George Floyd was murdered. He wasn't even killed by the police.
If only we had video footage of the officer suffocating him for 9 minutes as he lay defenseless on the ground till he stopped breathing…
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@Double_R

A lesser disgrace than those who claim George Floyd was murdered. He wasn't even killed by the police.
If only we had video footage of the officer suffocating him for 9 minutes as he lay defenseless on the ground till he stopped breathing…
It would have to be from an alternate reality because we have footage of Floyd suffocating from his own drugs for over 9 minutes. A man can't die twice in the same universe.

I'm not surprised you didn't realize that though, it is the same error as in the Biden corruption case; you put more faith in AP opinion than the order of events limiting the possible chain of causality.

Glorified blogging vs the most fundamental logic of our universe.... tough choice.

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IwantRooseveltagain
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@ADreamOfLiberty
It would have to be from an alternate reality because we have footage of Floyd suffocating from his own drugs for over 9 minutes. A man can't die twice in the same universe.
That’s a lie. You are disgusting.

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#20
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@ADreamOfLiberty
we have footage of Floyd suffocating from his own drugs for over 9 minutes.
I’ve never witnessed someone suffocating from their own drugs so I didn’t know what that looks like. Imagine my surprise to learn that the visual of this occurrence includes a police officers knee to the throat.

you put more faith in AP opinion than the order of events limiting the possible chain of causality.
The projection is astounding. Imagine being so reliant on being told what to believe by others that one cannot recognize the logical connection between someone dying of suffocation, and that same person having a knee to their throat for 9 minutes at the time of their death.

And then there’s this…

#21
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@Double_R
we have footage of Floyd suffocating from his own drugs for over 9 minutes.
I’ve never witnessed someone suffocating from their own drugs so I didn’t know what that looks like. Imagine my surprise to learn that the visual of this occurrence includes a police officers knee to the throat.
You may be interested to know that the throat is behind the spinal column when looking from the back.



you put more faith in AP opinion than the order of events limiting the possible chain of causality.
The projection is astounding. Imagine being so reliant on being told what to believe by others that one cannot recognize the logical connection between someone dying of suffocation, and that same person having a knee to their throat for 9 minutes at the time of their death.
Imagine a physical constriction so intense that it travels backwards in time and causes someone to not be able to breathe before force is applied.


Yea I watched the whole trial and read all the documents already. I'm afraid science, common experience, and the full video record outweigh politically motivated opinions regardless of the source. But please explain how the authority of credentialed assertions pierce space and time it would be interesting.
#22
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Yea I watched the whole trial and read all the documents already. I'm afraid science, common experience, and the full video record outweigh politically motivated opinions regardless of the source
So now the coroner performing an autopsy and issuing his findings as to the cause of death… is a politically motivated opinion.

And this is being alleged by someone who, despite having no relevant medical expertise, has “read all of the documents” and “watched the whole trial” to arrive at his own conclusion as to the cause of death.

But it’s the coroner who’s politically motivated here.

This reminds me very much of arguing with 9/11 truthers who, despite having no expertise in physics or structural engineering, would spend untold hours reading the National Institute of Science and Technology’s report and refuting it by explaining how the mechanics of building collapses don’t work the way they claimed.
#23
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@Double_R
A press release document isn't an official coroner's report.
#24
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@Double_R
Yea I watched the whole trial and read all the documents already. I'm afraid science, common experience, and the full video record outweigh politically motivated opinions regardless of the source
So now the coroner performing an autopsy and issuing his findings as to the cause of death… is a politically motivated opinion.
That is what I said.


And this is being alleged by someone who, despite having no relevant medical expertise, has “read all of the documents” and “watched the whole trial” to arrive at his own conclusion as to the cause of death.
Well I have had relevant medical experience, I've wrestled; and there is no way to accidentally cut off someone's air supply from the back. You can cause all kinds of pain and sores, perhaps even blood clots, but not suffocation. Also a defense expert referenced a study which I confirmed.

He couldn't breathe because of the fentanyl. Cause comes before effect. Effect does not come before cause.


But it’s the coroner who’s politically motivated here.
You got it.


This reminds me very much of arguing with 9/11 truthers who, despite having no expertise in physics or structural engineering, would spend untold hours reading the National Institute of Science and Technology’s report and refuting it by explaining how the mechanics of building collapses don’t work the way they claimed.
I bet you couldn't keep up with those truthers and just relied on what you've been told. You remind me of our new supreme court justice, who "couldn't" define a woman without the help of a "biologist".

It's an excuse, a religion living in the skin of science; and you the faithful, want all the prestige of science while knowing nothing (or refusing to apply your knowledge) and I will not give you that prestige. I hope many others join me.

[Greyparrot] A press release document isn't an official coroner's report.
The report actually said "complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression....", that was the politically motivated part. It was unconnected to any medical findings (like say bruising of the windpipe or something).

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@ADreamOfLiberty
Correct. Nothing in the actual autopsy indicated any external trauma to the windpipe or throat
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As per standardized medical examination, Floyd’s underlying health conditions and toxicology screen were documented during the autopsy. These are ordinary findings that do not suggest causation of death. The May 29 criminal complaint against Chauvin and ensuing headlines falsely overstated the role of Floyd’s coronary artery disease and hypertension, which increase the risk of stroke and heart attack over years, not minutes. Asphyxia—suffocation—does not always demonstrate physical signs, as other physician groups have noted.
Without this important medical context, however, the public was left to reconcile manipulated medical language with the evidence they had personally witnessed. Ultimately the charging document overstated and misrepresented the role of chronic medical conditions, inappropriately alluded to intoxicants, and failed to acknowledge the stark reality that but for the defendant’s knee on George Floyd’s neck, he would not be dead today.


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@ADreamOfLiberty
Floyd himself testified that he could not breathe before he was put on the ground. 

He would not have said that if the drug overdose was not causing breathing problems. I don't think Floyd was lying about that.
#28
Public-Choice
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I think I hold a minority view here on this issue, but I'm going to say it anyway:

Most of the cop killings CNN showed were legitimate killings. They weren't coonhunting cops on the prowl. Black people actually attacked in most of them. But CNN and the Democrats didn't care. They continued to fucking gaslight the American public, tell them to hate the police, and now, around the country, police are quitting and communities, particularly black communities, are having a crisis of safety.

Then enter Ashlii Babbit. She deserved it too. The area was barricaded, the policeman had U.S. Senators passing behind him and had his gun drawn. This was clear as day it was not an entry point. And she tries to enter to do what, exactly? Shake the cop's hand? Come on people. 

But here is what I saw that few others noticed. SUDDENLY, the police became national heroes who protect the vulnerable on CNN and elsewhere. The idea of police killings was basically forgotten about. The police were no longer pigs or evil murdering racists. They were heroes who defended the country.

But I also saw something change on the right, too. Rather than backing the blue, they broke from their bullshit and began to become the new CNN. Suddenly cops are evil people who shoot innocent civilians and have a conspiracy to hurt people. 

And this is the crux of my argument here. Most Americans are so fucking devoid of critical thinking abilities that they magically switched sides on the issue and kept debating it, not realizing they suddenly became the position they demonized just a few months before.

To roughly quote George Carlin "Nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. The IQ of the country slips a few points and things move on."

Most Americans are so fucking lost that they just wake up in the morning and get told what to think, and they don't care if it is completely different than what they heard just a few weeks or months or even 12 hours ago. They just unflappably accept whatever bullshit they are told and then go debate it with others without going "hey. Wait a fucking minute here. Last week it was the opposite. Why is that? Let me look into it."

"Nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care."
#29
Public-Choice
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Now, before IWantRooseveltAgain decides to create his straw mans and his middle school insults, as is in character for him when someone disagrees with his cultish orthodoxy to whatever the left says is truth today:

There is structural racism in the judicial system and there are racist cops in the leadership at many police departments. This affects policing and minority communities, particularly black communities. I think there is ample evidence of this.

But we also must agree that most cops are not racists. Some are. But most of the racism is in selective community policing, police policy, and in the leadership at police departments, not the average cop on the street.

This must be addressed, but it doesn't change the fact that a black woman can run at a police officer with a knife and the left makes her a martyr of cop killing, and then turns around and villainizes Ashlii Babbit. The situation is the fucking same. In both a person rushes a cop and is a clear and present danger to others around them. But Ashlii Babbit is somehow a horrible person and the cop is a hero while the other black girl is a hero and the cop is a horrible person. It makes no sense.

That disconnect is what is wrong here. Most Americans have abandoned objectivity in favor of cult mentalities and group consensus. This is dangerous for the country.
#30
ADreamOfLiberty
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[Greyparrot] Floyd himself testified that he could not breathe before he was put on the ground. 

He would not have said that if the drug overdose was not causing breathing problems. I don't think Floyd was lying about that.
Oh I know that quite well, that was what I was referring to in each of these quotes:

[ADOL] the order of events limiting the possible chain of causality.

Imagine a physical constriction so intense that it travels backwards in time and causes someone to not be able to breathe before force is applied.

He couldn't breathe because of the fentanyl. Cause comes before effect. Effect does not come before cause.
I was wondering if Double_R would ever catch on. Perhaps he knew about that fact and was ignoring it, or he had so much confidence in the leftstream narrative that he wasn't curious.

No number of coincidences phase Double_R. He will continue to suggest the simple solution is in fact a conspiracy theory:

Biden just happened to take actions that resulted in his son's promises coming true out of all the countries in the world, out of all the prosecutors in the country, out of all the companies that prosecutor could seize the assets of.

Floyd just happened to take a drug known to kill people by heart attack before dying of a heart attack, just happened to report symptoms of that kind of overdose before being pinned to the ground.

[Public-Choice] And this is the crux of my argument here. Most Americans are so fucking devoid of critical thinking abilities that they magically switched sides on the issue and kept debating it, not realizing they suddenly became the position they demonized just a few months before.
This pattern of behavior is not indicative of switching sides on an issue, it's indicative of the issue being a front, an excuse.

Logic would tell anyone the same thing after a moment of honest questioning. Nobody really supports people with guns doing whatever they want so long as they have a uniform, (almost) nobody really wants anarchy. They want their own vision of justice to be backed by military power.

The excuses form because people are not consciously aware of the reasons behind their vision of justice, they have no rational philosophy but as thinking beings they act out the sometimes self-contradicting philosophy at their core regardless.

Another striking example of this (to me) is animal rights. It's all gut emotion. Gut empathy vs normalized lack of empathy; but people will still throw out theories and principles like confetti to paper mache over their purely emotional stances.