-->
@Tarik
is it possible for a judge to "objectively" enforce the law ?Depends on the narrative.
that sounds a lot like a "NO"
Atheism and humanism are completely contradictory
Posts
Total:
1,052
-->
@3RU7AL
that sounds a lot like a "NO"
If that’s your take then you have comprehension issues.
-->
@3RU7AL
--> @Tarikis it possible for a judge to "objectively" enforce the law ?Depends on the narrative.that sounds a lot like a "NO"
Depends on who hears it.
-->
@3RU7AL
Atheism: there is no god, therefore there is no afterlife, therefore nothing you do or think matters at all. There is no moral standpoint, only what you like matters.ATHEISM is simply "not a theist"it has absolutely nothing to do with "afterlife" or AXIOLOGY or any other ONTOLOGICAL and or EPISTEMOLOGICAL questions
Apparently, you don't know what epistemological means.
-->
@Sidewalker
--> @3RU7ALAtheism: there is no god, therefore there is no afterlife, therefore nothing you do or think matters at all. There is no moral standpoint, only what you like matters.ATHEISM is simply "not a theist"it has absolutely nothing to do with "afterlife" or AXIOLOGY or any other ONTOLOGICAL and or EPISTEMOLOGICAL questionsApparently, you don't know what epistemological means.
If one is an atheist, there is little reason to believe in an afterlife
-->
@Shila
it has absolutely nothing to do with "afterlife" or AXIOLOGY or any other ONTOLOGICAL and or EPISTEMOLOGICAL questionsApparently, you don't know what epistemological means.If one is an atheist, there is little reason to believe in an afterlife
OK, and that also isn't what epistemological means.
-->
@Stephen
-> @3RU7ALAtheism: there is no god, therefore there is no afterlife, therefore nothing you do or think matters at all. There is no moral standpoint, only what you like matters.ATHEISM is simply "not a theist"it has absolutely nothing to do with "afterlife" or AXIOLOGY or any other ONTOLOGICAL and or EPISTEMOLOGICAL questionsApparently, you don't know what epistemological means.
If one is an atheist, there is little reason to believe in an afterlife
OK, and that also isn't what epistemological means.
You should be looking up what atheists means.
-->
@Shila
is it possible for a judge to "objectively" enforce the law ?Depends on the narrative.that sounds a lot like a "NO"Depends on who hears it.
please explain if you intend this to be a "yes" or a "no" or a "maybe sometimes"
-->
@Sidewalker
ATHEISM is simply "not a theist"it has absolutely nothing to do with "afterlife" or AXIOLOGY or any other ONTOLOGICAL and or EPISTEMOLOGICAL questionsApparently, you don't know what epistemological means.
there are many self-identified "atheists" who have no idea what epistemological limits are
-->
@3RU7AL
--> @Shilais it possible for a judge to "objectively" enforce the law ?Depends on the narrative.that sounds a lot like a "NO"Depends on who hears it.please explain if you intend this to be a "yes" or a "no" or a "maybe sometimes"
Already answered. Depends on who hears it.
-->
@Shila
If one is an atheist, there is little reason to believe in an afterlife
have you ever met a GNOSTIC ?
-->
@Shila
please explain if you intend this to be a "yes" or a "no" or a "maybe sometimes"Already answered. Depends on who hears it.
purely subjective
-->
@3RU7AL
-> @ShilaIf one is an atheist, there is little reason to believe in an afterlifehave you ever met a GNOSTIC ?
Yes, on religious forums.
-->
@Tarik
Because it doesn’t matter if two individuals agree on a “moral” standard, if it doesn’t align with God’s then they both will have to deal with the objective result of going to hell
Recall what this conversation is about; it began when you claimed that morality could only make sense of it were objective. I have been responding ever since to point out that not only is that statement wrong, but that morality is inherently subjective.
After all this time you have finally made your position clear; your only conception of morality is that which aligns with god.
This does not support your original statement. Morality is about how we judge right from wrong, and as I’ve pointed out and you apparently agree, we judge by comparing actions to a standard and you believe god to be this standard.
So first of all, you have yet to explain why god is objectively, the moral standard. Even if he does exist and even if we will end up in hell for defying him, all that does is make god a tyrant. The fact that you fear hell is irrelevant to this conversation. Unless you are going to argue “might equals right”, this does nothing to rationally justify accepting him as your moral standard. It is nothing more than self preservation.
You also ignore the fact that if God is an all powerful mind, then he can change his mind so even if you get past my first objection, the fact that he can change what is moral on a whim still makes it subjective.
-->
@Double_R
This does not support your original statement.
What do you think my original statement was?
So first of all, you have yet to explain why god is objectively, the moral standard.
I did that already and all you did was reject my reasoning with no explanation as to why, no point of that a second time, only difference is I said heaven was the standard https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/7916/post-links/344564
You also ignore the fact that if God is an all powerful mind, then he can change his mind so even if you get past my first objection, the fact that he can change what is moral on a whim still makes it subjective.
What He can do doesn’t and shouldn’t overrule what He will do, therefore it remains objective.
-->
@3RU7AL
ATHEISM is simply "not a theist"it has absolutely nothing to do with "afterlife" or AXIOLOGY or any other ONTOLOGICAL and or EPISTEMOLOGICAL questionsApparently, you don't know what epistemological means.there are many self-identified "atheists" who have no idea what epistemological limits are
I know that, there are plenty of people who don't know what the words "ONTOLOGICAL" and "EPISTEMOLOGICAL" mean, but you don't usually see people like that using them in a sentence.
-->
@Sidewalker
Added 09.27.22 09:23PM--> @3RU7ALATHEISM is simply "not a theist"it has absolutely nothing to do with "afterlife" or AXIOLOGY or any other ONTOLOGICAL and or EPISTEMOLOGICAL questionsApparently, you don't know what epistemological means.there are many self-identified "atheists" who have no idea what epistemological limits areI know that, there are plenty of people who don't know what the words "ONTOLOGICAL" and "EPISTEMOLOGICAL" mean, but you don't usually see people like that using them in a sentence.
By giving them the definitions, at least they will know what they mean.
Ontological definition: relating to the branch of metaphysics dealing with the nature of being.
Epistemological definition: relating to the theory of knowledge, especially with regard to its methods, validity, and scope, and the distinction between justified belief and opinion.
-->
@Double_R
After all this time you have finally made your position clear; your only conception of morality is that which aligns with god.
even if we accept this as 100% TRUE
how the heck do we know exactly what god wants us to do ?
-->
@Shila
By giving them the definitions, at least they will know what they mean.Ontological definition: relating to the branch of metaphysics dealing with the nature of being.Epistemological definition: relating to the theory of knowledge, especially with regard to its methods, validity, and scope, and the distinction between justified belief and opinion.
none of these have anything at all to do with "being a christian"
in the exact same way
none of these have anything at all to do with "being NOT a christian" (NOT a theist)
-->
@Sidewalker
I know that, there are plenty of people who don't know what the words "ONTOLOGICAL" and "EPISTEMOLOGICAL" mean, but you don't usually see people like that using them in a sentence.
what is your specific claim ?
-->
@3RU7AL
-> @ShilaBy giving them the definitions, at least they will know what they mean.Ontological definition: relating to the branch of metaphysics dealing with the nature of being.Epistemological definition: relating to the theory of knowledge, especially with regard to its methods, validity, and scope, and the distinction between justified belief and opinion.none of these have anything at all to do with "being a christian"in the exact same waynone of these have anything at all to do with "being NOT a christian" (NOT a theist)
Even Christian’s need to know what their metaphysical beliefs are.
Even Christian’s need to know the distinction between knowledge and beliefs.
-->
@Shila
Even Christian’s need to know what their metaphysical beliefs are.Even Christian’s need to know the distinction between knowledge and beliefs.
maybe, but it is not a PREREQUISITE
-->
@3RU7AL
I know that, there are plenty of people who don't know what the words "ONTOLOGICAL" and "EPISTEMOLOGICAL" mean, but you don't usually see people like that using them in a sentence.what is your specific claim ?
It's not really that complicated, pay attention.
If you think ATHEISM has absolutely nothing to do with ONTOLOGICAL and or EPISTEMOLOGICAL questions then you don't know what the words ONTOLOGICAL and EPISTEMOLOGICAL mean.
-->
@Sidewalker
If you think ATHEISM has absolutely nothing to do with ONTOLOGICAL and or EPISTEMOLOGICAL questions then you don't know what the words ONTOLOGICAL and EPISTEMOLOGICAL mean.
please explain
-->
@3RU7AL
--> @ShilaEven Christian’s need to know what their metaphysical beliefs are.Even Christian’s need to know the distinction between knowledge and beliefs.maybe, but it is not a PREREQUISITE
If you think ATHEISM has absolutely nothing to do with ONTOLOGICAL and or EPISTEMOLOGICAL questions then you don't know what the words ONTOLOGICAL and EPISTEMOLOGICAL mean.
If it applies to Atheists it also applies to Christians.
-->
@3RU7AL
If you think ATHEISM has absolutely nothing to do with ONTOLOGICAL and or EPISTEMOLOGICAL questions then you don't know what the words ONTOLOGICAL and EPISTEMOLOGICAL mean.please explain
Oh pulease, just get a dictionary, look up all three words, try to understand the definition of all three words and you will see that the statement "ATHEISM has absolutely nothing to do with ONTOLOGICAL and or EPISTEMOLOGICAL questions" is simply an innane statement.
-->
@Tarik
What do you think my original statement was?
That morality can only make sense of it is objective.
So first of all, you have yet to explain why god is objectively, the moral standard.I did that already and all you did was reject my reasoning with no explanation as to why
A logically invalid explanation is not an explanation, and I’ve explained why it is invalid multiple times.
Once again, might =/= right. Your argument hinges on the idea that if we don’t obey God’s moral code we will be sent to hell, but the “objective result” of going to hell is irrelevant to the question of whether said repercussions are moral.
This is the exact same thing as arguing that something is wrong because it’s illegal. In that example, according to your logic, the state would be the “objective standard” for morality.
What He can do doesn’t and shouldn’t overrule what He will do, therefore it remains objective.
Whether his word can be overruled is irrelevant to the concept of objectivity.
-->
@Shila
If you think ATHEISM has absolutely nothing to do with ONTOLOGICAL and or EPISTEMOLOGICAL questions then you don't know what the words ONTOLOGICAL and EPISTEMOLOGICAL mean.If it applies to Atheists it also applies to Christians.
Yep, words have the same meaning whether you are an Atheist or a Christian, they are spelled the same too.
-->
@3RU7AL
After all this time you have finally made your position clear; your only conception of morality is that which aligns with god.even if we accept this as 100% TRUEhow the heck do we know exactly what god wants us to do?
It’s all nonsense but I don’t even feel the need to go that far since his position on what morality is contradicts his own statement that morality has to be objective to make any sense. Even in his scenario where God is the standard for morality, the fact that god can change his mind makes morality by definition, subjective, which according to him means morality makes no sense.
-->
@Sidewalker
.--> @ShilaIf you think ATHEISM has absolutely nothing to do with ONTOLOGICAL and or EPISTEMOLOGICAL questions then you don't know what the words ONTOLOGICAL and EPISTEMOLOGICAL mean.If it applies to Atheists it also applies to Christians.Yep, words have the same meaning whether you are an Atheist or a Christian, they are spelled the same too.
It should also be the same with Taoism which is what he follows.