Atheists are hypocrites

Since you don't even claim to be conscious, why would I ask you anything?

i am functionally indistinguishable from an artificially conscious computer program

you're going to have just as much luck measuring "consciousness" as anyone has had trying to measure "free-will"

--> @3RU7AL

Since you don't even claim to be conscious, why would I ask you anything?

i am functionally indistinguishable from an artificially conscious computer program

you're going to have just as much luck measuring "consciousness" as anyone has had trying to measure "free-will"

Oh, ok, so I suppose this means that whatever drivel you post, the burden of proof is on me, LOL.

Pavlovian all the way, and oh so clever...you guys are really good at this philosophy thing

so, you're actually asking about ONTOLOGICAL AXIOMS

You see the sun, moon, stars, air, sky, earth, ocean, and different natural elements of life, that are already placed in the universe.

You see the cosmic universe, along with the physical manifestation of life created by humans. It’s all are part of the external reality.

of course, it is logically impossible to interact with or observe anything that is fundamentally separate from us

therefore, we are merely aspects of a much larger organism

kinda like cells in a body

--> @3RU7AL

so, you're actually asking about ONTOLOGICAL AXIOMS

You see the sun, moon, stars, air, sky, earth, ocean, and different natural elements of life, that are already placed in the universe.

You see the cosmic universe, along with the physical manifestation of life created by humans. It’s all are part of the external reality.

of course, it is logically impossible to interact with or observe anything that is fundamentally separate from us

therefore, we are merely aspects of a much larger organism

kinda like cells in a body

You have made an assertion here, the burdon of proof is on you.

"think of it as someone simply asking why they should care what you claim"

"why do you think this should be important to me"

I keep asking two questions:

1) Do you believe in the existence of an external reality?

2) Do you believe you are conscious?

None of the BOP crowd will anwer either question, they won't admit to having any belief in anything whatsoever. That's because you know the BOP game applies to anything and everything, you like to pitch it but you know you can't catch it,  playing your BOP game might feel good, but it's meaningless and all of you BOPers know it.

I will ask again, are you conscious?  If you want to be taken seriously, if you want anyone to believe  you are thinking, if you want anyone to believe anything you say, then you have to be contending that you are conscious, and then according to the BOP game you guys like to play, meet the burden of proof?

Prove to me that you are conscious?

I keep asking two questions:

1) Do you believe in the existence of an external reality?

Insofar as I appear to observe one - yes. But I can’t know for sure, and wouldn’t qualify it as a “belief” as much as an observation I have no basis to question.

2) Do you believe you are conscious?

Insofar as what I appear share what we all collectively define as consciousness. I neither know what it is, or whether it’s real though.

None of the BOP crowd will anwer either question, they won't admit to having any belief in anything whatsoever. That's because you know the BOP game applies to anything and everything, you like to pitch it but you know you can't catch it,  playing your BOP game might feel good, but it's meaningless and all of you BOPers know it.

I will ask again, are you conscious?  If you want to be taken seriously, if you want anyone to believe  you are thinking, if you want anyone to believe anything you say, then you have to be contending that you are conscious, and then according to the BOP game you guys like to play, meet the burden of proof?

Prove to me that you are conscious?

So here’s a point of view from a ‘BoPer’ we all collectively have a description of consciousness; self awareness, being able to understand and self regulate our own thoughts - etc. I know what that feels like, but I don’t know what it actually is.

Is it real? Or is it just what being a largely autonomous brain operating by physics feels like: I don’t know, I can’t measure or derive any test to tell the difference. No one can.

Being able to tell doesn’t functionally change the conversation, because whatever consciousness really is, it still appears the same to, say, people engaging in conversation. For example - if a complex AI was able to completely mimic every aspect of a human response to all questions some day - on what basis could we really conclude it wasn’t conscious other than our say-so?

Fundamentally though, a big part of your issue about other peoples beliefs is not that Atheists aren’t willing to answer questions, as much as you not liking the answer.

I’m normally more than happy to answer anything, but a lot of the answers you will get are like the above - I don’t know, because I don’t know. I don’t have beliefs about what happened before the Big Bang because I don’t know. The process of abiogenesis, I have a some idea based on experimental evidence, but I don’t know exactly.

This is obviously dissatisfying for many theists who have been fed a diet of stories about atheists, that it’s a religion, of that we believe all sorts of silly things; and that when confronted - we just say we don’t know when we don’t know, and it sort-of preempts the thread of the argument you had prepared.

But I’ll issue you (or anyone for that matter) an open AMA - feel free to ask me literally anything about my atheism, worldview, opioid, epistemology - you name it; I’ll offer my opinion in it.

but when they tell you that a zircon fragment is 4.375 billion years old

you sort of have to take their word for it

are you suggesting that you can only have "justified & true" "knowledge" of physical objects ?

Nope, I want to question your beliefs, but as I pointed out, all of you BOPers know it's a meaningless game, you are willing to serve, but you won't step up to the plate.

Nope, I want to question your beliefs, but as I pointed out, all of you BOPers know it's a meaningless game, you are willing to serve, but you won't step up to the plate.

If that is the case, then perhaps you should start with asking about my beliefs rather than getting upset because I don't believe what you (dubiously) think I should. 

but the point is, you don't have to

Christianity is the belief that all of your sins, all of your mistakes, all of your regrets, and all of your pain can be given into the hands of The One who created you and loves you.

Christianity is a relationship with a friend who sticks closer than a brother. A God who loves you so much He took the punishment for you. A mighty fortress in the midst of attack. A loving Father who seeks the best good things for his children. And a God who is all-powerful and self-sufficient. A God who does not need you, for He is not in need, but wants you, because He loves you very much.

https://www.debateart.com/profiles/Public-Choice

 I can't get any of you to say what you believe.

Looks more like sidestepping and less like Sidewalking.

but the point is, you don't have to

Can you, right now, prove a zircon fragment is 4.3 billion years old?

Nope, I want to question your beliefs, but as I pointed out, all of you BOPers know it's a meaningless game, you are willing to serve, but you won't step up to the plate.

It's a Pavlovian game played unconsciously, prove me wrong.

of course, it is logically impossible to interact with or observe anything that is fundamentally separate from us

therefore, we are merely aspects of a much larger organism

kinda like cells in a body

That explains why separating external reality and being conscious of inner reality is so important.

Nope, I want to question your beliefs, but as I pointed out, all of you BOPers know it's a meaningless game, you are willing to serve, but you won't step up to the plate.

It's a Pavlovian game played unconsciously, prove me wrong.

PROVE ME WRONG = BURDEN OF PROOF GAME

Since you don't even claim to be conscious, why would I ask you anything?

i am functionally indistinguishable from an artificially conscious computer program

you're going to have just as much luck measuring "consciousness" as anyone has had trying to measure "free-will"

Oh, ok, so I suppose this means that whatever drivel you post, the burden of proof is on me, LOL.

of course, it is logically impossible to interact with or observe anything that is fundamentally separate from us

therefore, we are merely aspects of a much larger organism

kinda like cells in a body

You have made an assertion here, the burdon of proof is on you.

"think of it as someone simply asking why they should care what you claim"

"why do you think this should be important to me"

I keep asking two questions:

1) Do you believe in the existence of an external reality?

Insofar as I appear to observe one - yes. But I can’t know for sure, and wouldn’t qualify it as a “belief” as much as an observation I have no basis to question.

2) Do you believe you are conscious?

Insofar as what I appear share what we all collectively define as consciousness. I neither know what it is, or whether it’s real though.

My point is that the BOP game is pointless, no belief can meet the BOP

I made the point earlier that our state of conscious awareness is a feature that trumps all others in the matter of epistemic authority.  The only thing we know in an unmediated manner is that we are conscious, Descartes’ “I think therefore I am” comes to mind.  Regarding external reality, all we can know are phenomena: things as they present themselves to us; things as they appear to us, not things as they are.  The world in its own right, the noumenal world, can only be inferred.

You answered both questions with reference to experiential evidence such as “I appear to observe” and “I know what that feels like”, at the same time acknowledging that you can’t meet the so-called burden of proof, which validates my point about the BOP game.  You can’t meet the BOP for belief in the existence of external reality or internal reality, what exactly is the point of the BOP game, what does it have to day about the existence of anything?

BTW, it is the same with my Theism, the basis of my faith is not an inferred God whose existence depends on the strength and validity of the arguments that philosophers devise for proving or disproving his likely existence. The basis of faith is not inferential reason, it is personal encounter, and it is validated by the resulting personal experience of liberation.  The fact is, reality is always going to be ambiguous regarding the questions being raised here, belief is not logically coercive, it’s a matter of faith, but for me it does provide an intellectually satisfying way of making sense of the broadest possible band of human experience, of uniting in a single account, the rich and many layered encounter that we have with a reality that is experienced as full of value, meaning, and purpose. 

Your constant assertion that you have no beliefs is in fact a statement that you do not have any knowledge whatsoever. To profess complete ignorance about the subject matters you spend so much time discussing just seems pointless.

LOL, if your thought process is so incoherent that you cannot connect the dots, then perhaps you should stop with the constantly declaring yourself to be more logical and rational, it’s got to be embarrassing.

Let me try to dumb it down for you, try to follow along…

The number of gumballs is either odd or even, that is not absurd reasoning.

The three basic laws of thought are considered to be the basis of rational thought, they are 1) the law of identity, 2) the law of non-contradiction, and 3) the law of the excluded middle.  The law of the excluded middle says for every proposition, either this proposition or its negation is true.  

You think that basic logic is absurd reasoning?

Nope, not at all, you are the first BOPer to answer, and you have pretty much acknowledged that you can’t hit the BOP pitch either, nobody can, so the question becomes, what is the point of pitching the BOP when there is no ball to hit, why do you guys think it somehow makes a relevant point about Theism.

we’re actually talking about is epistemology.