Atheists are hypocrites

Author: Ehyeh

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@SkepticalOne
The atomic mass of Sodium is 22.989769 u.
in addition,

have you yourself measured the atomic mass of Sodium ?

or do you merely trust some authority on the subject that you personally find credible ?
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@3RU7AL
Because something is defined by measurement does not mean it is true by definition - it is true by observation.  The definition is dependent on evidence not the other way around. It seems to me you are suggesting anything with a definition cannot be knowledge.
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@3RU7AL
have you yourself measured the atomic mass of Sodium ?
Irrelevant. The collective knowledge of humanity isn't null and void if I personally haven't verified all of it. If evidence warrants a true belief, it is knowledge. 


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@SkepticalOne
Because something is defined by measurement does not mean it is true by definition - it is true by observation.  The definition is dependent on evidence not the other way around. It seems to me you are suggesting anything with a definition cannot be knowledge.
no, i'm suggesting that "justified & true" is probably the worst possible definition of "knowledge"

is it impossible to KNOW "unjustified and untrue" information ?
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@SkepticalOne
Irrelevant. The collective knowledge of humanity isn't null and void if I personally haven't verified all of it. If evidence warrants a true belief, it is knowledge. 
it sounds like you have FAITH in the modern priesthood
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@SkepticalOne
Because something is defined by measurement does not mean it is true by definition - it is true by observation.
do you maybe have another example of "knowledge"

perhaps something that doesn't require specialized equipment in order to verify ?
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@3RU7AL
1 + 1 = 2

is a tautology

because it is true by definition
Adding numbers is not a  tautology. A mathematical formula is a tautology.
Eg.  X=Y.
i could just as easily say something like

BREGRU + SENDROK = KRENDO

and this could also be considered true by definition

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@3RU7AL
Faith, by definition, does not carry a burden of proof, and no matter how many times you repeat, it will not become valid.  
very good, just don't expect anyone else to believe you

My state of conscious awareness is a feature that trumps all others in the matter of epistemic authority, I know that I have faith, I really don't need anyone to believe what I say about it.  On what basis would you challenge my belief that I have faith? 
 
faith is personal
Yean, of course it is, the contents of our consciousness is personal, that's the only thing any of us knows directly, what you know as the external world is the "presumed" cause of your sensations.  If you believe in the existence of anything outside of your own consciousness, then you have a belief with a burden of proof that you cannot provide.

This nonsense burden of proof game applies to anything whatsoever, that's why everyone that blathers on about it, won't admit to believing in anything. 

I keep asking two questions:
1) Do you believe in the existence of an external reality?
2) Do you believe you are conscious?

None of the BOP crowd will anwer either question, they won't admit to having any belief in anything whatsoever. That's because you know the BOP game applies to anything and everything, you like to pitch it but you know you can't catch it,  playing your BOP game might feel good, but it's meaningless and all of you BOPers know it.

You can say you think I'm wrong, but as you said above, "just don't expect anyone else to believe you",.

I will ask again, are you conscious?  If you want to be taken seriously, if you want anyone to believe  you are thinking, if you want anyone to believe anything you say, then you have to be contending that you are conscious, and then according to the BOP game you guys like to play, meet the burden of proof?

Prove to me that you are conscious?






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@Sidewalker

I keep asking two questions:
1) Do you believe in the existence of an external reality?
2) Do you believe you are conscious?
1. Yes,  You see the sun, moon, stars, air, sky, earth, ocean, and different natural elements of life, that are already placed in the universe.
You see the cosmic universe, along with the physical manifestation of life created by humans. It’s all are part of the external reality.

2. Yes, I am conscious of Self and others.
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@Sidewalker
think of the "burdenofproof" as someone simply asking why they should care what you claim

why do you think this should be important to me
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Regards
DL
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@GnosticChristianBishop

The majority of countries listed are Muslim countries. Muslims are not atheists. They worship the Abrahamic God. 
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@3RU7AL
think of the "burdenofproof" as someone simply asking why they should care what you claim

why do you think this should be important to me
I was already thinking of it as asking why they should care what you claim, and as someone who does not even claim to be conscious, I don't see why anyone would care what you claim.  

If you aren't conscious, then nothing is important to you, and there is no reason to play the BOP game.

I will logically conclude that the BOP game is played unconsciously, which explains why in practice, it appears to be so Pavlovian.
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@Shila

I keep asking two questions:
1) Do you believe in the existence of an external reality?
2) Do you believe you are conscious?
1. Yes,  You see the sun, moon, stars, air, sky, earth, ocean, and different natural elements of life, that are already placed in the universe.
You see the cosmic universe, along with the physical manifestation of life created by humans. It’s all are part of the external reality.

2. Yes, I am conscious of Self and others.
OK, and how would you go about achieving the burden of proof?
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@3RU7AL
--> @Sidewalker
think of the "burdenofproof" as someone simply asking why they should care what you claim

why do you think this should be important to me

You have a few options when dealing with having the  burdenofproof. 
Here is a good place to start.

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@Sidewalker
think of the "burdenofproof" as someone simply asking why they should care what you claim

why do you think this should be important to me
I was already thinking of it as asking why they should care what you claim, and as someone who does not even claim to be conscious, I don't see why anyone would care what you claim.  

If you aren't conscious, then nothing is important to you, and there is no reason to play the BOP game.

I will logically conclude that the BOP game is played unconsciously, which explains why in practice, it appears to be so Pavlovian.
you can't prove or disprove anyone is truly conscious unless you are able to quantify consciousness

you can't prove or disprove anything is "external" to you

so, you're actually asking about ONTOLOGICAL AXIOMS
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@3RU7AL
you can't prove or disprove anyone is truly conscious unless you are able to quantify consciousness

you can't prove or disprove anything is "external" to you

so, you're actually asking about ONTOLOGICAL AXIOMS


You see the sun, moon, stars, air, sky, earth, ocean, and different natural elements of life, that are already placed in the universe.
You see the cosmic universe, along with the physical manifestation of life created by humans. It’s all are part of the external reality.


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@Sidewalker
so, you're actually asking about ONTOLOGICAL AXIOMS
I guess he would rather question reality than his beliefs. 😆

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@Shila
so, you're actually asking about ONTOLOGICAL AXIOMS
You see the sun, moon, stars, air, sky, earth, ocean, and different natural elements of life, that are already placed in the universe.
You see the cosmic universe, along with the physical manifestation of life created by humans. It’s all are part of the external reality.
of course, it is logically impossible to interact with or observe anything that is fundamentally separate from us

therefore, we are merely aspects of a much larger organism

kinda like cells in a body
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@SkepticalOne
so, you're actually asking about ONTOLOGICAL AXIOMS
I guess he would rather question reality than his beliefs. 😆
at some point we'll find the same page
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@3RU7AL
Irrelevant. The collective knowledge of humanity isn't null and void if I personally haven't verified all of it. If evidence warrants a true belief, it is knowledge. 
it sounds like you have FAITH in the modern priesthood
You give actual priests too much credit. Preists cannot justify their core beliefs or show them true. That is not true of, say, geologists.
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@3RU7AL
do you maybe have another example of "knowledge"

perhaps something that doesn't require specialized equipment in order to verify ?
I've provided 2 examples. One requires no specialized equipment. 
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@SkepticalOne
You give actual priests too much credit. Preists cannot justify their core beliefs or show them true. That is not true of, say, geologists.
look, i love science and empiricism as much as the next person

but i've never seen a geologist demonstrate anything

they talk a lot

and explain things in a way that makes sense

but when they tell you that a zircon fragment is 4.375 billion years old

you sort of have to take their word for it
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@3RU7AL
think of the "burdenofproof" as someone simply asking why they should care what you claim

why do you think this should be important to me
I was already thinking of it as asking why they should care what you claim, and as someone who does not even claim to be conscious, I don't see why anyone would care what you claim.  

If you aren't conscious, then nothing is important to you, and there is no reason to play the BOP game.

I will logically conclude that the BOP game is played unconsciously, which explains why in practice, it appears to be so Pavlovian.
you can't prove or disprove anyone is truly conscious unless you are able to quantify consciousness

you can't prove or disprove anything is "external" to you

so, you're actually asking about ONTOLOGICAL AXIOMS
No, I'm actually pointing out the fact that the BOP game that you BOPers play is meaningless, pay attention.

Since you don't even claim to be conscious, why would I ask you anything?
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@SkepticalOne
I've provided 2 examples. One requires no specialized equipment. 
what, the bible knowledge example ?

you are pretty certain there is such a thing as a physical bible with words written in it

ok, that's like saying "rocks are real"

are you suggesting that you can only have "justified & true" "knowledge" of physical objects ?
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@Sidewalker
No, I'm actually pointing out the fact that the BOP game that you BOPers play is meaningless, pay attention.
hold on, are you suggesting YOU are not asking for counter-evidence (which is shifting the burden of proof) ?
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@Sidewalker
Since you don't even claim to be conscious, why would I ask you anything?
i am functionally indistinguishable from an artificially conscious computer program

you're going to have just as much luck measuring "consciousness" as anyone has had trying to measure "free-will"
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@SkepticalOne
so, you're actually asking about ONTOLOGICAL AXIOMS
I guess he would rather question reality than his beliefs. 😆
Nope, I want to question your beliefs, but as I pointed out, all of you BOPers know it's a meaningless game, you are willing to serve, but you won't step up to the plate.

It's a Pavlovian game played unconsciously, prove me wrong.
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@3RU7AL
No, I'm actually pointing out the fact that the BOP game that you BOPers play is meaningless, pay attention.
hold on, are you suggesting YOU are not asking for counter-evidence (which is shifting the burden of proof) ?
LOL, I know how the nonsense game is played, but no, I'm not asking for counter evidence, I'm asking if you are conscious, andlike all BOPers, you aren;t going to answer the question because you know your BOP game is meaningless drivel, so you will never step into the batters box because you know there is no ball to hit.

The big mystery is why you guys think it's clever. 
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@3RU7AL
-> @Shila
so, you're actually asking about ONTOLOGICAL AXIOMS
You see the sun, moon, stars, air, sky, earth, ocean, and different natural elements of life, that are already placed in the universe.
You see the cosmic universe, along with the physical manifestation of life created by humans. It’s all are part of the external reality.
of course, it is logically impossible to interact with or observe anything that is fundamentally separate from us

therefore, we are merely aspects of a much larger organism

kinda like cells in a body
That explains why separating external reality and being conscious of inner reality is so important.