Gasp Prices and Inflation

Author: Double_R

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Double_R
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@CoolApe
However, I concede that the immediate inflation is not caused by Biden's policies. 
But that's my point. We can debate the future of energy and what we should be doing about it, I'm responding to those who are claiming that gas prices are high because of Joe Biden, which is why we should have voted for Donald Trump.

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@ILikePie5
You clearly don’t know how the oil market works. It runs on futures. As soon as Biden got into office everyone knows the costs to transport that oil will increase. To recoop the losses they would face, they have to increase the prices now.
So your argument is that gas prices are high because investors saw Biden get elected and went into a frenzy, and if we elect Trump the investors will calm down and gas prices will return to normal. Is that right?

Supply and Demand? Don’t decrease supply and prices won’t go high. Basic economics really 
How has Biden decreased supply? Be specific and quantify how much it's decreased as well as how much this had driven up today's oil prices. I'll wait.
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@Double_R
and the US isn't experiencing inflation any higher than the rest of the world
Provably false. Why would you say this?

You and others claim these high gas prices is because of Biden. Not because of inflation (a global issue), not because of the supply chain and COVID's complete disruption to it (also a global issue) and you do this whole ignoring that the entire world is dealing with had prices just as high as us.
That's not at all what we are claiming. We are saying Biden is making an already bad problem worse with shit energy policies.

What do you think Biden can do right now to stimulate oil production? If your answer is a predictable "nothing", then put someone else in charge that can do something.
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@Double_R
How has Biden decreased supply? Be specific and quantify how much it's decreased as well as how much this had driven up today's oil prices. I'll wait.
Coal pointed to more than 5 specific things and you rebutted none of them. Guess I will wait too.
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@Greyparrot
Economic neophytes don't equate high prices with high production, labor, and transport costs which also translates to a lack of investor funding.
None of which is under the control of the president of the United States of America. 
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@secularmerlin
None of which is under the control of the president of the United States of America. 
Do you know what an Executive order is?
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@Double_R
So your argument is that gas prices are high because investors saw Biden get elected and went into a frenzy, and if we elect Trump the investors will calm down and gas prices will return to normal. Is that right?
That’s how supply and demand shocks work, yes. Basic economics.

How has Biden decreased supply? Be specific and quantify how much it's decreased as well as how much this had driven up today's oil prices. I'll wait.
His policies? Coal does a great job talking about some of them.

And again, you fail to understand the fundamentals of a prospective market, which is what oil is. There is no “specific quantity” people predict oil supply is going to drop by, but people sure as hell know it’s going to drop because it will become far more expensive to drill because of regulation and Biden policies that he promised during his campaign. 


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@secularmerlin
Perhaps... or perhaps there are in excess of 9000 drilling permits already not being used amd the industry is simply always willing to take advantage of any shortage (or supposed shortage) to aquire more permits to hoard against the future.
Again, as stated throughout this OP. Oil relies on futures. A vast portion of those permits were already there under Trump. Regulation is still there, threat of killing subsidies is still there. Pandering to Iranians and Venezuelans is still there. 
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@Greyparrot
What do you think Biden can do right now to stimulate oil production? If your answer is a predictable "nothing", then put someone else in charge that can do something.
Imagine Trump in office. He probably would’ve fixed the supply chain crisis by now by threatening the Chinese to get their act together and banning vaccine mandates so truckers don’t quit en masse
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@ILikePie5
Trump sure as hell isn't perfect, but at least he didn't promise to decrease oil production and then followed through on that campaign promise with hundreds of executive orders.
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@Greyparrot
If the president of the United States of America cannot simply make the oil companies lower their prices why would he be more able to lower a whole host of other services? Clearly these are all dictated by supply and demand too. Surely you don't want the government to force other industries to lower their rates for the oil companies any more than you want him to order the oil companies to lower their prices for us. 
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@secularmerlin
If the president of the United States of America cannot simply make the oil companies lower their prices.
A president can. Go research former president Carter's policies.

Clearly these are all dictated by supply and demand too. 
And supply is clearly restricted by Executive orders. From NEPA regulations to excise charges.
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@ILikePie5
Futures are a way to protect corperate interests from the market. The ultra wealthy are shielded fro the consequences of their actions in ways that we quite frankly can hardly imagine. An unregulated economy would not deal in futures. Futures are an attempt to subvert the natural ebb and flow of the market. 

Recessions, inflation, unemployment, these are all features of capitalism not bugs.
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@secularmerlin
Futures are a way to protect cooperate interests from the market.
Lol. If that was the case, everyone's 401K retirement package would ONLY consist of investments in futures.

(hint: they are not)
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@Greyparrot
The gas prices were never going down. It would be foolish to expect that. In any case the real cost of fossil fuels isn't even in money it is the human cost. The cost to the planet. No president can resolve this issue by adjusting the monetary cost even if that is within their purview. 


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@Greyparrot
I did not say it was the only thing just one of them. 
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@secularmerlin
I did not say it was the only thing just one of them. 
What have you chosen to invest your 401k into? Surely you have some expert economic advice into safe investments for the common folk if you know what is safe for rich people to invest in.
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@Double_R
 It's a vague outline on how the US should approach green energy and inequality. How is this relevant?
Maybe you missed the voluminous explanation I provided.  Read it and get back to me.

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@secularmerlin
@Greyparrot
Futures are a way to protect corperate interests from the market. The ultra wealthy are shielded fro the consequences of their actions in ways that we quite frankly can hardly imagine. An unregulated economy would not deal in futures. Futures are an attempt to subvert the natural ebb and flow of the market. 
Believe it or not, oil doesn’t grow on trees. It takes months if not years to get a permit, make the rig, drill, transport, refine. It’s supposed to run on futures.

Recessions, inflation, unemployment, these are all features of capitalism not bugs.
And death is the feature of socialism
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@coal
Maybe you missed the voluminous explanation I provided.  Read it and get back to me.
He still doesn’t understand the concept of futures and Supply/Demand. I know in Texas, economics is required to graduate high school
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@Greyparrot
Trump sure as hell isn't perfect, but at least he didn't promise to decrease oil production and then followed through on that campaign promise with hundreds of executive orders.
The obfuscation to avoid blaming Biden for anything really is amazing. The same thing happened several months ago in a thread about the ongoing border crisis. The quarter million a month illegals pouring in can’t have anything to do with Biden de facto legalizing it by simply releasing them en masse and flying them to their place of choice in the country…no siree, nothing to see here, definitely would have been the exact same under Trump who would’ve made asylum seekers remain in Mexico 

Gas prices would have gone up if Trump had won but there’s no doubt that Biden being openly unfriendly to the energy industry has obviously hurt a lot. Coal put forward a good synopsis. There was a very funny article in I think the NYT a few weeks ago about how Biden feels like his hands are tied with oil prices and then the last paragraph listed a bunch of stuff he had ruled out like permitting more drilling in federal land or easing certain regulations lol 

As an aside the dumbest policy thing I had ever seen was when Trump wanted to refill the strategic oil reserve with dirt cheap oil during the beginning of Covid and democrats blocked it, then bragged about blocking it. Would’ve come in handy right about now…not that I approve of releasing oil that’s stockpiled for a national emergency in order to win political points

The fact is that Biden has been dealt a shit hand but he has been playing it worse than I thought possible. He’s easily one of the worst presidents in a very long time—trying to be objective I can’t think of a single thing he has done right. It’s okay to admit this. Trump was dealt an amazing hand and he fumbled it 
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@thett3
What exactly has Biden done 'wrong' in your eyes to a significant degree?
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@coal
It turns out that the buck stops with the guy at the top.  So, the default assumption is that if you're in charge, you're responsible for what happens on your watch.
I made this same argument when I was arguing with the site liberals about Biden’s disastrous and treasonous border policy. All they were arguing was “well it’s due to factors outside of his control” as if even if that were true (and it isn’t) sitting around and doing fuck all to stop a growing crisis is not acceptable from a leader just because “I didn’t start it!!!” 

I would scoff at “leadership” like that from middle management at some no name company let alone the President. Course when it comes to the border thing the reality is that he’s allowing it to happen because it’s what he wants, but I don’t think people would be willing to admit that
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@RationalMadman
What exactly has Biden done 'wrong' in your eyes to a significant degree?
He reversed Trump era policies designed to deter the planet sized “asylum” loophole in American immigration laws causing an unprecedented border crisis. There has been far more illegal immigration than legal immigration under Biden

He failed to withdraw from Afghanistan without significant loss of life even though he had seven months of prep time 

He sicced the FBI on parents who were concerned that a mentally ill male had raped several female students in their local school districts 

He has threatened to cut off funding for programs such as school lunches for poor students if schools don’t allow biological males into female safe spaces 

His anti energy policies have hampered American production (see Coals write up) 

He pushed through an absolutely massive Covid spending bill even when it was clear that it wasn’t necessary and would cause huge inflation, and wanted 3.5 trillion in additional spending that was thankfully blocked by Manchin 

He attempted to make tens of millions of people unemployed and unemployable for not wanting to take a vaccine 

He chose a Supreme Court nominee solely on the basis of race and sex 

I came up with all of this off the top of my head 

And also just incompetence even if you support his agenda. For example they had a signed agreement with Senator Manchin on what he would accept in a potential Build Back Better bill and they went back on the deal, causing Manchin to shut the whole thing down 
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@thett3
He failed to withdraw from Afghanistan without significant loss of life even though he had seven months of prep time 
Do you even know what absolute moron is largely responsible for the entire escalation and then deterioration of Taliban activity in Afghanistan? Does 'mother of all bombs' ring a bell? Save the US from Islamic Extremists was it?

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@thett3
Totally agree.  If you're in charge, the buck stops with you.  You can't turn around and pass the blame off to someone else, specifically any subordinate.  

And let's not forget the idiocy, degeneracy and overall mindfucked self-gaslighting nonsense.  On the one hand, leftist types pretend like gas prices are the president's fault when they're bad and a republican is in office, but not the president's fault when they're bad and a democrat is in office.  Likewise, when gas prices are good and a republican is in office, it's got nothing to do with him; but everything to do with him, if that person is a democrat. 

Obviously none of this matters for the ultimate question of how responsible the president is for gas prices, but to pretend like this conversation is anything other than complete partisan hackery? Beneath frivolity.  

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@RationalMadman
Do you even know what absolute moron is largely responsible for the entire escalation and then deterioration of Taliban activity in Afghanistan? Does 'mother of all bombs' ring a bell? Save the US from Islamic Extremists was it?

It hasn’t escaped me that Trump repeatedly backed off of leaving Afghanistan and eventually set a deadline that would happen after the election that he undoubtedly knew (in his heart of hearts) that he was almost certain to lose. If you want to argue that Biden was tasked with the job of cleaning up Trumps mess on several issues I would agree…but he HASNT cleaned the mess up, he’s made it all worse
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@thett3
Exactly. Every apologist is blaming Trump for not giving Biden room to mess up knowing full well that Biden was absolutely going to make the country worse.

The amount of people that think Biden is doing a great job is a terribly small minority.
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@Greyparrot
That's not at all what we are claiming. We are saying Biden is making an already bad problem worse with shit energy policies.
I started a thread on the January 6th hearings where the committee is showing piece by piece how the  former president of the United States and current Republican party front runner for 2024 tried to end the American experiment by seizing control of the US government against the will of the voters, and all you wanted to talk about was gas prices.

Now you seem to be suggesting that when though Biden made things worse, we all know it still would have been bad anyway.

This is why I have a problem taking you and your cohorts here seriously.

Coal pointed to more than 5 specific things and you rebutted none of them. Guess I will wait too.
I started this thread asking specifically for anyone rambling on about Biden and gas prices to explain what they take issue with and explain *what impact these actions have had*. That last part is the part that actually matters. It's also the part Coal and everyone else here left out. Address the OP and I'll respond.

I'm not interested in your Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. You guys are the ones using gas prices as the end all be all reason to vote out Biden to the point where we should ignore the fact that the opposition is trying to end democracy. Make sense of you're BS.
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@coal
Maybe you missed the voluminous explanation I provided.  Read it and get back to me.
I also missed the part where you attempted to quantify any of it. That was kind of the point.

The main reason for gas prices is well understood; COVID completely disrupted the market by making oil so cheap the price was negative, putting oil companies out of business and nearly stopping production world wide. Now that demand has returned, supply is no where near able to keep up. This is why the pain is being felt world wide

Russia is also a big reason, but what we should as a result of them trying to commit genocide on Ukraine is a far more nuanced conversation than "gas high therefore Biden bad".

I'm not claiming Biden's policies have had no impact, I don't know anyone who is. This thread is a response to those pretending that their fixation on gas prices, which they then use to dismiss any argument against what the current GOP is defending and propogating, is anything more than blatant partisan hackery.