NFL Mafia [DP1]

Author: Mharman
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#391
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@ILikePie5
Whiteflame - Tilt Scum - I don’t like the fact that at the beginning, WF said: “Pie is engaging in some light scum hunting and giving some reasonable reads.” The only read I had provided was Oro being inactive and hating being scum. Not really a read tbh. His pursuance of GP also doesn’t make sense. He’s been in games where GP has role claimed after he’s character claimed. It’s not affiliation indicative. Or all of this is overthinking and I can’t read WF to save my life lol
Fair enough. I saw that as a read on Oro, or at least a reasonable perspective on. I will say that I've justified why I'm sussing GP beyond just claiming his role after his character, as you can see in #139. It's more of a behavioral read based on what he has said since he claimed.

As for Barney, much as I agree that he's been pretty inactive and his contributions have largely been repetitive, I don't see this as likely scum play. I think he would have stayed more up-to-date if he had a scum partner instead of focusing on posts he made earlier in the DP. I'd be good with getting a full claim in this DP, perhaps even from him, but like I said earlier, I don't want too many claims this DP and I want to make the most of what we get. I'm not convinced that he's the best one to push for a full claim, though I have to read back through the DP and see if that changes.
#392
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@Earth
Made up my mind. Oro is scum.

VTL Oro
I'm honestly just trying to understand how you're coming to this and it feels like I'm missing something. You dismissed his inactivity as a reason to sus him, and you've been pushing a theme dealing with losses and the split being teams that have never won a Super Bowl. I'm unclear what makes you think that the theme is losses, given that we only have one full claim. You could be right, but assuming that you are, it's likely that scum knows the theme and we know they have access to a pool of fake claims. Are you suggesting that Oro as scum chose a fake claim that also put him on the wrong side of the theme split, or that he just straight up claimed his actual character in hopes that we wouldn't figure out the split? Strikes me that either scenario doesn't really fit Oro's style of play.

Note that I'm not defending him. I'm personally on the fence about Oro, but you seem to have a strong reason to sus him that you're not telling us.

Don't like WF's first few posts.
Again, vague. What don't you like about them?

Oro, Mister, WF, Badger for scum?
Now we're just getting random. This is the first time I can see that you've mentioned MC and Badger. You've heaped us all together as possible scum with Oro, who you are actively sussing, though none of the rest of us have gotten anywhere near the same attention from you. That's not to mention that you have 4 people listed here, which is too many for a scum team. Do you have any reasons why any of these people come off as being on a team together, myself included?
#393
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@ILikePie5
As a townie, if you have scum reads, you say them and pursue them. Barney has done neither. He has asked a question to GP and didn’t follow up on it till I pointed it out. Me he’s straight up just OMGUS. No mention of why I was scummy earlier in the game. And me wanting to lynch him for pressuring GP is just straight up false.

This is what I said: “Barney - Lean Scum - Dude’s a moderator and is inactive. He’s obviously lurking. The only contributory thing he’s done is the dashboard, but that’s all he does. He asked a question to GP. Idr if GP answered, but if he hasn’t, why hasn’t Barney followed up on it. It seems like an attempt to be scum hunting but not really.”


Not only that but he admits he hasn’t followed up on GP, cause he asked him to answer the question again.  
Didn't see this before I made the above post. I can see your point. I also just saw Barney's most recent posts and they come off pretty defensively, especially since your VTL has more to do with how he's acting against GP than with his choice to target GP at all. I'm still going to read through the DP, but at least right now, I'd be good with pursuing a full claim from Barney.
#394
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@ILikePie5
still no reason why I was at the bottom of the list early in the game

That was explained literally in the same post when I moved you to the bottom. You had claimed to be VTLing me to put pressure on me, but being stupidly stealthy about it (not tagging me). While it's a common mistake, I was modifying dashboard anyways.
#395
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@Barney
Curious, why did your answer for the hated town explanation change?

Who likes the Falcons?

My team is hated for choking in critical games.
 This is pressure? This is an explanation change?
GP is saying implicitly the Falcons are disliked/hated for losing the Superbowl 
#396
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@whiteflame
Oro, Mister, WF, Badger for scum?
Now we're just getting random.
Earth be wild
#397
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@That2User
He initially had a very weak justification of hated for "Who likes the Falcons?"

I could buy the later justification of losing games, but the change is pretty severe.

...

Well, I'm off to work.
#398
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@Barney
@whiteflame
@SirAnonymous
That was explained literally in the same post when I moved you to the bottom. You had claimed to be VTLing me to put pressure on me, but being stupidly stealthy about it (not tagging me). While it's a common mistake, I was modifying dashboard anyways.

So he’s scum reading me for making a mistake…
I’ve VTLed a bunch of people in the past without tagging them. Hell, a lot of people have done it this game. Interestingly, he only had a problem when I do it. It’s scummy if I do it him, but when someone else does it to someone else it’s not scummy.
#399
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@ILikePie5
It’s scummy if I do it him, but when someone else does it to someone else it’s not scummy.
This is purely defensive play, it's scummy when you vote and don't tag him to claim, it's scummy when you VTL him, is playing defensively known play?
(I initially thought I was being called out because I didn't tag Chris when voting to claim, though I tagged him a few posts in)
#400
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*is playing this defensively known play?
#401
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@ILikePie5
Interestingly, he only had a problem when I do it. 
Solely focusing on self-preservation and being heavily defensive, based on his posts of not sleeping, I see why this is being pursued to this level

#402
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What is a "dashboard" post? 
#403
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@That2User
This is purely defensive play, it's scummy when you vote and don't tag him to claim, it's scummy when you VTL him, is playing defensively known play?
(I initially thought I was being called out because I didn't tag Chris when voting to claim, though I tagged him a few posts in)
I’m confused. Can you resay this 
#404
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@That2User
Solely focusing on self-preservation and being heavily defensive, based on his posts of not sleeping, I see why this is being pursued to this level
Are you calling me out or calling Barney out lmfaooo
#405
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At this point I'm fine getting a claim from oromagi, Barney, Speedrace or whiteflame in that order.

Oromagi was slow to be active (which is fine) but has since only focused on documenting claims and posting about his theme analysis. He has no idea whether his theme guess is correct, and I really suspect it isn't, so to focus solely on that and nothing else seems like a waste of time and way to look active without really contributing anything. He hasn't even told us what his theme guess is nor used it to pressure anyone. Even if we presume it has something to do with Superbowl wins and losses which he made a post about, he failed to explain how he can guess which team we are based on that theme. For instance he guessed I was the Jaguars or Titans... why? His posts are just rubbing me the wrong way and I'd like a claim from him ASAP, so I'm probs gonna vote for him. 

Barney seems a bit defensive vs. Pie, though to be fair I'd react that way too if someone accused me of being online when I wasn't. I dunno who he is though or if he's always online or what. It does seem a little sus he is harping on Greyparrot whom I still have no town read on by the way. GP could be an easy target. Even if Barney is town though he seems like a fair person to pressure for a claim at the moment. 

Speedrace and whiteflame are just unfortunately very hard to read and it couldn't hurt to get a claim from them early on, especially given Speedrace's little activity on DP1. I could see him swooping in on DP2 as scum and being like "Hey guys I'm here - now let me just take over the game now that I'm around" but unless we're going for role claims right off the bat (and I don't think we are), it could be useless to pressure these two since scum has a pool of fake character claims. With about ~26 hours left in the DP I'd say let's get a full claim from oromagi, Barney or both for now. VTL oromagi. 




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#406
Mharman
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Official Vote Count
Barney (2/7) - Greyparrot, Pie
Greyparrot (2/7) - Speedrace, Barney
Oromagi (2/7) - Earth, Danielle
Whiteflame (1/7) - That2
Danielle (1/7) - Badger
Speedrace (1/7) - Oromagi


#407
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@Barney
He initially had a very weak justification of hated for "Who likes the Falcons?"

Do you have a problem parsing an interrogatory statement?

Regardless of this ridiculous attack over an honest question that I asked to try to root out scum, you clearly reacted to pie's post about you being inactive and not following up, Now you just seem to be going through the motions to get pie off of your back. That alone makes you hella sus in my eyes.
#408
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@whiteflame
I don't remember dismissing his inactivity as Scum, but maybe I said something along the lines of waiting for him to pop in or whatever. I remember Oro being serious about analysis and using crypto and shit, and while the latter seems to be frowned upon on DART, I still think he was rather aggressive as town. Seems mellow this game. Also, post #291(?) he seemed to misinterpreted my post. Secondly, I doubt mafia has access to any substantial pool of fake claims. Maybe what they have is something along the lines of 'type'. Mhar did say that some pools were better than others. Little odd but w/e.

I don't really like your post where you wonder why the Falcons would be hated. I'm not a football guy, but after hearing about LI, that would come straight to mind if Falcons were a Hated Townie. 

I'll admit I am mostly gut reading Mister and Badger. 

This is Day 1. We have a ML. We can lynch someone I think is likely town, or we can either prove or disprove my theory. Not really rocket science which one I want lynched.

Since it needs to be bolded, Town are teams that made it to the Superbowl, but lost. The theme IS NOT teams that never won a superbowl. There is a difference.



#409
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@Barney
I put pressure on GP for never replying to an important question, and this is your reaction. Fantastic scum slip.
It's the timing I felt was very sus. You only reacted to Pie's prompting, something a scum clearly would do to deflect attention. I just assumed you were town up to that point by answering my question with a question and maybe fishing for scum like I was, but this is just far too much.
#410
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@Danielle
Speedrace and whiteflame are just unfortunately very hard to read and it couldn't hurt to get a claim from them early on, especially given Speedrace's little activity on DP1. I could see him swooping in on DP2 as scum and being like "Hey guys I'm here - now let me just take over the game now that I'm around" but unless we're going for role claims right off the bat (and I don't think we are), it could be useless to pressure these two since scum has a pool of fake character claims. With about ~26 hours left in the DP I'd say let's get a full claim from oromagi, Barney or both for now. VTL oromagi. 
I’d prefer WF over Oro just because he’s harder to read. Oro is null for me tho so I would be fine with getting his claim along with Barney/Ragnar
#411
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@That2User
GP is saying implicitly the Falcons are disliked/hated for losing the Superbowl 
I thought that was absolutely clear to anyone following my posts, that the mod specifically used the Falcoln's Superbowl loss as my justification.
#412
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@Barney
I put pressure on GP for never replying to an important question, and this is your reaction. Fantastic scum slip.
Ik, and I was the one to point it out. You didn’t follow up on it. So did you really want an answer or were you trying to seem like scum hunting. I think it’s the latter. Scum slip by you for sure
#413
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@Barney
@oromagi
You both need to full claim ASAP
#414
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Since it needs to be bolded, Town are teams that made it to the Superbowl, but lost. 
No it isn't. 
#415
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@Earth
I don't remember dismissing his inactivity as Scum, but maybe I said something along the lines of waiting for him to pop in or whatever. I remember Oro being serious about analysis and using crypto and shit, and while the latter seems to be frowned upon on DART, I still think he was rather aggressive as town. Seems mellow this game. Also, post #291(?) he seemed to misinterpreted my post. Secondly, I doubt mafia has access to any substantial pool of fake claims. Maybe what they have is something along the lines of 'type'. Mhar did say that some pools were better than others. Little odd but w/e.
You said that you thought it would "lead to nowhere" pursuing his activity, but fine, now you're interested. I've seen Oro go through phases when it comes to being more or less aggressive, even within the same game, so being a bit more mellow so far doesn't really throw me. He was a bit slower to run with the theme analysis, but my experience with him has been that he tends to explore themes early and I'm seeing that. He can be aggressive along those lines, though I don't think the lack of aggression sticks out to me in the same way it does for you.

As for the misinterpretation, you've actually presented two different themes in different places. Right now, your theme is "teams that made it to the Superbowl, but lost." Your theme in post #362 was exactly what you're saying it isn't now: 

I predict the theme is something like Teams that never made it to the Superbowl (Mafia) vs everyone else.
So that misinterpretation seems at least somewhat valid, even though this post came after his response to you. As for the pool of claims, the only information we have about that pool is that some claims are better than others, so whether it's substantial or not is a guess. Maybe I'm doing too much WIFOM here, but given that we know scum have a pool of some amount, I doubt that they would actively select teams that set them on the scum side of an obvious theme split. I'd say that this theme split would be obvious to a scum team who knows their own characters up front.

I don't really like your post where you wonder why the Falcons would be hated. I'm not a football guy, but after hearing about LI, that would come straight to mind if Falcons were a Hated Townie. 
Not sure why you're calling me out on this, but ignoring everyone else who also found the link between the role and character claims suspicious. Danielle called it out in post #39 and in great detail in #243 and That2 called it out in post #80, but they're not on your sus list. Beyond that, asking for the person to provide their justification is the obvious response when someone makes a full claim. Just because it seems obvious to you doesn't mean that it should be treated as obvious from the get-go.

I'll admit I am mostly gut reading Mister and Badger. 
Alright.

This is Day 1. We have a ML. We can lynch someone I think is likely town, or we can either prove or disprove my theory. Not really rocket science which one I want lynched.
I agree that we need information, but the goal shouldn't be to just prove or disprove your theory. You seem really focused on testing this specific assumption as to what the theme split is, and frankly, I think it's too early to claim that any given theory has substantial merit. If we're going to lynch someone, it should be based on behavior first and theme second, preferably testing multiple theories on the theme with a single lynch if possible.


#416
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There's less than 24 hours in the DP, so we need to move forward with claims. Barney and oromagi have the most votes right now with 2 each. Can the people voting for others or not voting at all either cast a vote for oro/Barney instead? If you prefer not to, vote for someone else and explain why that person over the others. We need to get the game moving. 

#417
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@oromagi
Unvote
VTL oro
Full claim
#418
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@badger
Will you join us in voting oro/Barney to full claim?
#419
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@whiteflame
You willing to full claim vote oro/Barney?
#420
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Alright, I do feel more strongly about Barney's behavior than Oro's at this point. I can't say anyone else really stands out beyond GP, and we already have a full claim from him.

VTL Barney