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@3RU7AL
Omnis est cogitatio.
Dubitatio est cogitatio.
Define a universe in your own words
Posts
Total:
106
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@3RU7AL
I know, it is insane and mind boggling how it quantum physics works. Especially the back propagation of reality caused by observation. The wave form potential is still a thing with or without us, even if it collapses into a single state when we observe it.
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@Kritikal
The wave form potential is still a thing with or without us,
the amorphous quantum blob "exists"
but not the specific object and or event
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@Conservallectual
I thought this was a philosophical question that needed some attention. I want to see what you define what a universe is.I know this may seem unimportant but think about it. There are many questions inside this one question - such as:* Are the worlds inside thoughts and dreams part of our universe or outside of it?* Are fictional worlds part of our universe?* Are numbers and abstract objects part of our universe?* Do other universes exist?* I can go on and onhere are some common definitions:* All of time, space, and matter* all of totality* all of space
It would depend on which definition you use. So let's go through each one individually:
"All of time, space, and matter."
Are the worlds inside thoughts and dreams part of our universe or outside of it? No and Not Defined. Thoughts aren't material, and there does not satisfy the description. Whether they're outside of the universe depends on how "outside the universe" is defined.
Are fictional worlds part of our universe? No. Fiction is not material and therefore does not satisfy the description.
Are numbers and abstract objects part of our universe? No. Same reasons as above.
Do other universes exist? No. Undermines the modifier, "All," used in this definition.
"all of space"
Are the worlds inside thoughts and dreams part of our universe or outside of it? Not Defined. Thoughts and space would have to be defined. The same is true for the next two questions.
Do other universes exist? No.
* all of totality
Are the worlds inside thoughts and dreams part of our universe or outside of it? Yes. Thoughts are part of everything/totality.
Are fictional worlds part of our universe? Yes, fictional worlds are part of everything/totality.
Are numbers and abstract objects part of our universe? Yes, numbers and abstract objects are part of everything/totality.
Do other universes exist? No.
The one thing consistent with these three set of responses is that the definition on which they are based excludes other universes.
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@3RU7AL
exactly
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@Athias
Are fictional universes a part of our universe? Yes, fictional universes are part of everything/totality.
Within the context of everything and totality, when is a part, fictional/simulated or otherwise, not a fact?
Is not internal data manipulation and simulation, in fact the extent of an organisms totality?
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@zedvictor4
when is a part, fictional/simulated or otherwise, not a fact?
imagine the difference between "concrete nouns" and "abstract nouns"
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@zedvictor4
when is a part, fictional/simulated or otherwise, not a fact?
some things are PROVABLY TRUE
some things are PROVABLY FALSE
these two categories cover less than 1% of human knowledge
Are fictional universes a part of our universe? Yes, fictional universes are part of everything/totality.Within the context of everything and totality, when is a part, fictional/simulated or otherwise, not a fact?
Define "fact."
Is not internal data manipulation and simulation, in fact the extent of an organisms totality?
Why would "totality" be expanded beyond the internal data manipulation and simulations of said organisms?
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@Athias
Why would "totality" be expanded beyond the internal data manipulations and simulations of said organisms?
I think that is what I was asking you.
Though I think that is what we think we do.
It's a perplexing dilemma......To be reasonably certain that we do actually participate in a universe.....Whilst at the same time being aware that the outcomes of sensory perception only provides us with a simulated account of what we are certain is real.
Define "fact".
Good point.
One might suggest that within the above context, at best a fact is something we are reasonably certain of, relative to awareness of our existence and our ability to presumably simulate an accurate account of external messaging.
For example.....One looks and one sees, and one is reasonably certain that what one sees is accurate and real.
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@zedvictor4
there is no clear logical pathway out of SOLIPSISM
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@3RU7AL
there is no clear logical pathway out of SOLIPSISM
I thought about this question the other day.
What is the “self”? Is it just your mind, or is it everything else as well.
I don’t know what’s beyond totality.
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@Reece101
What is the “self”? Is it just your mind, or is it everything else as well.
PHANERON
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@3RU7AL
PHANERON
What about the subconscious? And could you elaborate on your said view?
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@Reece101
A phaneron is the existence as it is filtered by the perceptive senses and/or by the reasoning of an entity. A phaneron is merely a perception of what exists. No one knows what exists outside of their own perception. To you, what you see and believe to be true, is true; at least to you.
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@3RU7AL
A phaneron is the existence as it is filtered by the perceptive senses and/or by the reasoning of an entity. A phaneron is merely a perception of what exists. No one knows what exists outside of their own perception. To you, what you see and believe to be true, is true; at least to you.
Does the subconscious exist?
What’s this link without context? A way to make cheap shots at me? If only I had the same lack of self-awareness.
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@Reece101
What’s this link without context? A way to make cheap shots at me? If only I had the same lack of self-awareness.
it's a 53 minute short film that explains the phaneron
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@Reece101
Does the subconscious exist?
when you move your arm
can you tell me how many individual muscles you activated ?
can you tell me what percentage of your available energy you utilized ?
most of our activity and even most of our thought processing is NOT "conscious thought"
some call it "intuition"
some call it "common sense"
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@3RU7AL
it's a 53 minute short film that explains the phaneron
He finds himself in a box with pre-existent notions, ideas, concepts, etc. Would you consider that a flaw?
when you move your armcan you tell me how many individual muscles you activated ?can you tell me what percentage of your available energy you utilized ?most of our activity and even most of our thought processing is NOT "conscious thought"some call it "intuition"some call it "common sense"
Alright, how does phaneronism address the subconscious? Or does it skip it altogether?
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@Reece101
He finds himself in a box with pre-existent notions, ideas, concepts, etc. Would you consider that a flaw?
No.
But the desire to "escape" the phaneron is somewhat misguided
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@Reece101
Alright, how does phaneronism address the subconscious? Or does it skip it altogether?
the "subconscious" is the apophatic phaneron (NOUMENON)
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@3RU7AL
No.But the desire to "escape" the phaneron is somewhat misguided
Well you could say he’s wanting to find a greater reality / truth.
the "subconscious" is the apophatic phaneron (NOUMENON)
Does the subconscious equally exist? If so, why bother with phaneronism in the first place when it comes to solipsism?
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@Reece101
Does the subconscious equally exist?
it exists as a logical necessity
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@Reece101
why bother with phaneronism in the first place when it comes to solipsism?
because the phaneron is everything that you KNOW and everything you will ever KNOW
words and philosophical concepts can only exist in the stratum of CONSCIOUS THOUGHT
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@Reece101
Well you could say he’s wanting to find a greater reality / truth.
good point
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@zedvictor4
I think that is what I was asking you.
What in my response led you to ask me this?
It's a perplexing dilemma......To be reasonably certain that we do actually participate in a universe.....Whilst at the same time being aware that the outcomes of sensory perception only provides us with a simulated account of what we are certain is real.
Simulation necessarily suggests a manipulated imitation. A manipulated imitation of what? On what basis are you identifying this simulation, much less identifying distinctions from a claimed "non-simulation"?
One might suggest that within the above context, at best a fact is something we are reasonably certain of, relative to awareness of our existence and our ability to presumably simulate an accurate account of external messaging.
Why is "external" messaging relevant? How is it even rational, let alone capable of qualifying the determination of fact?
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@3RU7AL
there is no clear logical pathway out of SOLIPSISM
Exactly.
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@3RU7AL
because the phaneron is everything that you KNOW and everything you will ever KNOWwords and philosophical concepts can only exist in the stratum of CONSCIOUS THOUGHT
Only the known exists?
boy this thread got really popular fast.
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@Conservallectual
The entirety of my experience and experiential knowledge as limited by human epistemology. I presume and operate under the assumption that this experience represents an actual physical universe which is to the best of my understanding a sparce collection of physical bodies puncuating the vast silent vacuum of turbulent energy fluctuations that is expanding at relativistic speeds. Expanding into what (or if that is even more than a nonsense notion) is unknown not only to me but also to the brightest and best informed minds on the frontiers of cosmological research.