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@Lemming
@#113On a case by case basis.
give me some kind of "best case" example
that (hopefully) doesn't involve throwing the woman in a jail cell
Supreme Court Votes to overturn Roe v Wade Draft Shows.
Posts
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324
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@Lemming
Do we also have right, as Washington did, to treat our slaves as we like?
The 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments resolved this question, so you should read the US Constitution. (spoiler alert- the answer is no)
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@3RU7AL
If a woman was a meth addict, it might not be 'jail quite,
But she 'would end up somewhere where she was under watch.
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@Lemming
Parents who burn their children with their cigarettes, or break their babies legs for crying, ought not have custody.
non-infant orphans are extremely unlikely to be adopted
the rates of abuse and neglect in the foster-care system are astronomical
and siblings are purposefully and intentionally separated from each other
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@Lemming
But she 'would end up somewhere where she was under watch.
like where ?
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@Polytheist-Witch
@3RU7AL
@oromagi
@Self
Ahh! So many Replies.
And I've met people in a past job of my own, who abused their children.
Likely such experiences influence 'both our individual perceptions of life,
I do not mean to say in a bad way, just that the experiences exist.
It's the choosing to harm another, that bothers me most.
And still think it's our perceptions of the unborn, that influence our end conclusions most.
I understand new amendments have been added to the constitution,
But I'd argue that amendments 'effect one another.
Privacy is not considered unlimited, is my point.
A place similar to a hospital, or a prison, or an asylum, I suppose.
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@Lemming
Privacy is not considered unlimited, is my point.
All rights are limited by the rights of others, privacy included. We are fools not to demand substantially increased protections from government and corporate interests in our private lives.
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@Polytheist-Witch
unborn do not ever outweigh the living. Whatever reason a person chooses to not carry their pregnancy to term is none of my business.[...]My view on it is is that a woman is the life support for her unborn and if at any point she chooses to terminate that life support it's up to her. And this completely psychotic off the wall that means you think women should be allowed to hurt neglect or abuse their born children is complete and utter psychotic b*******
Oh braindeath, let us embrace you! For there can never be a comparison between starving a newborn of nutrients and starving an unborn of nutrients, as doing so would require us to forgo our braindeath! Let us not acknowledge the nature of relationships and the nature of duty of care, for doing so might lead us away from braindeath! Whatever reason one has for starving their child of the nutrients needed for life, whether that child be unborn or newborn, let it be the case that it is up to the mother and leave it at that! It is no business of ours! For an unborn shall never have rights, so sayeth the braindead one, and so, for example, a more developed unborn child is worth less than the prematurely born newborn that is less developed! Not because of any rational justification, but due solely to braindeath! Hail braindeath, embrace braindeath! Praise be the braindead prophet for giving us this enlightenment!
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@Lemming
A place similar to a hospital, or a prison, or an asylum, I suppose.
and what do you think would be an ideal selection process ?
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@oromagi
We are fools not to demand substantially increased protections
well stated
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@3RU7AL
Would you support the overturn of Roe V Wade, then?
As it'd put the power more in the states hand, and you think it'd go way of some other laws, such as gay marriage or marijuana?
Perhaps something similar in the way individuals are deemed flight risks, and prevented from leaving prison,
Deemed suicide risks, and prevented from leaving a short term inpatient psych ward,
Deemed of unsound mind, and prevented from leaving a hospital.
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@Lemming
Perhaps something similar in the way individuals are deemed flight risks, and prevented from leaving prison,Deemed suicide risks, and prevented from leaving a short term inpatient psych ward,Deemed of unsound mind, and prevented from leaving a hospital.
so, if i happen to hear a woman mention that she thinks she might be pregnant and she plans on continuing to engage in otherwise perfectly legal activities that are known to be potentially harmful to the development of the unborn (including restricted diet and or exercise), i should call the police ?
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@3RU7AL
Does the law say anything about pregnant women engaging in "activities that are known to be potentially harmful to the development of the unborn"?
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@Lemming
Does the law say anything about pregnant women engaging in "activities that are known to be potentially harmful to the development of the unborn"?
not currently
but (IFF) the unborn are determined to have a "right to life" (THEN) there must be some legal mechanism to enforce the protection of the unborn
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@3RU7AL
Well then, in response to #132, I reply,
If you 'thought 'maybe you saw someone being mugged, should you call the police?
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@Lemming
If you 'thought 'maybe you saw someone being mugged, should you call the police?
it's more like, "if you thought that maybe someone might get mugged by someone at some unspecified point, should you call the police ?"
and if you're asking me, it would seem to be none of my business (and a complete waste of police investigative resources)
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@3RU7AL
The individual mugged,
Or individual born deformed,
'Might disagree.
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@3RU7AL
Oh glory be to the wise fool for showing us that neglect laws never limit otherwise perfectly legal activities! For the duty of care is no duty at all! Praise be for us to hear the wisdom of the fools! Praise the wise fool for sharing with us such wonderful insight!
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@TheMorningsStar
that neglect laws never limit otherwise perfectly legal activities
do you perhaps have some working theory and or some general moral principle that guides your decision making in such cases ?
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@Lemming
If a teleporter malfunctioned,And I was half transported into your body, that we share it,It doesn't feel quite fair to me, that you should be able to kill me for that.'Especially when in time, we can be separated.
Well, first there is no such thing as a transporter so this scenario is implausible. Secondly, this wouldn't be analogous. It would be more like I disallowed you the benefit of my body. Whether you think that is fair or not doesn't really matter - you have no right to use my body.
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@Lemming
The individual mugged,Or individual born deformed,'Might disagree.
perhaps, but, my lack of motivation (and or zeal) to protect strangers from potential harm does not magically make me morally culpable for that potential harm
in-fact
police officers are NOT legally obligated to respond to calls for assistance and or investigate reported crimes
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@SkepticalOne
@3RU7AL
Two strangers, Walking upon the mud road, Stumble into one another, Becoming intertwined.
Says The First, "I see you are a small fellow, Not matching my girth, Additionally the cloth you wear is of less value of mine, Shove off my fine fellow from myself, I've no time for you."
Says The Second, "Pray wait a moment or ten, And we can disentangle ourselves without violence, It's a ruin to my clothes, My day, If I fall, Splattered in mud, Just wait a moment and together we'll both 'clean, Continue on our ways. "
Says the First "No Sir! I say, The longer we're together, The more a 'chance exists we may 'stumble together, Any can see plain, That two unbalancing one another together are a risk, More than one by themself calmly righting themself, 'off I say. "
I've thought about inaction for a time,
And myself 'do think it makes one morally culpable.
Whether it makes one 'legally culpable, is a different story.
Or whether action at a certain point, simply becomes 'beyond a humans capability or what one ought expect from them to respond.
Hospitals at any rate,
Regarding possible child abuse,
I'd say have a duty to ask probing questions, or flag investigators.
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@Lemming
Hospitals at any rate,Regarding possible child abuse,I'd say have a duty to ask probing questions, or flag investigators.
should priests and psychologists have a similar obligation ?
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@3RU7AL
He's too busy being a butt hurt d****** that doesn't understand the difference between saving a living child and treating a living child with like it has rights compared to an unborn child. Whatever bitterness he has to his mother he can get over it I don't want to hear about it his case is in everyone's case.
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@Lemming
Hospitals at any rate,Regarding possible child abuse,I'd say have a duty to ask probing questions, or flag investigators.
It is almost like even medical privacy also has limitations... Or could it be that every time that a child is seen with even a bruise the parents are investigated for abuse or neglect? No, that isn't it.... is it credible reporting? Of course, credible reporting! But let's not use a comparable standard when assessing how miscarriages should be handled in a pro-life society, any loss of a child should be the death penalty! Wait.... no, that isn't right either....
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@3RU7AL
I vaguely remember a chaplain in the military,
Regarding individuals giving off suicidal indications, as I recall the chaplain would get into contact with said individuals higher chain of command,
Not so much 'saying anything, as giving a wink wink, nudge nudge, that they thought they should check up on X, make sure he was doing okay.
Or maybe it was the chaplain wouldn't leave a suicidal individual alone until they got help, or he was sure they weren't a risk.
I forget, might have been two different chaplains,
Or maybe I'm remembering a conversation 'about someone else's experiences? I forget.
Point though, is that even people in privacy minded occupations,
Often act according to their conscious or groups instruction per the situation.
Different people, different organizations, different nations, different laws.
If you asked me how I would form my 'own society,
I'd probably 'eventually put a framework into place,
Would take a while though.
But when you ask me exactly what this person or that person should or does,
I don't know, as I'm not well read enough.
I'm 'sure churches and the profession of psychology have considered the question, and have arrived at different answers in different places, different points in time.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Oh yes, how idiotic of me! Sure, I developed a sound position to hold based on a duty of care model but didn't ever consider such a thing! Maybe the braindeath is truly working! And bitterness with my mother? I never considered that I had bitterness towards my mother, as we get along and see each other quite often, but as the braindead prophet has so declared, so it is! Hail to the braindead one!
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@TheMorningsStar
Axioms in life 'do seem to run into trouble at times, when put into practice.
Often needing to mesh with other axioms, bend, or allow other axioms precedence.
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@TheMorningsStar
But let's not use a comparable standard when assessing how miscarriages should be handled in a pro-life society, any loss of a child should be the death penalty!
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@3RU7AL
Oh yes wise fool, how could I forget, that one just because one finds the pro-life position to be rational that that means that we must agree with all the actions done by others of our kind! Let us rejoice from this wisdom, that if anyone that holds a position we ascribe to does something that that means we must agree with it! Praise be to the wisdom of the fools!