MMA Mafia DP2

Author: Lunatic

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@That2User
I think the biggest slip ever is that Mharman and Whiteflame clearly got lost during their mafia chat and forgot I'd outed with a clear on Earth, there is absolutley no way they had the same slip this close to each other without outside communication, I would believe. Do you notice how Mharman hasn't said shit to me since that slip to justify it?
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@Mharman
Wow. I did not even see that post. But why those two? How can I even trust that?
Neither did whiteflame. :)
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@Mharman
I replied to you later specifying it again, asking you to elaborate.


Page 1 - missed
Page 3 - missed
both @ing you, both replied to by you.

Sure, you're 'town'.
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@Mharman
I suspected Wylted and figured it would be crucial either way. I also was 90% sure I was dead or roleblocked after Aikido was gone with such a strong role to protect like that.
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@Mharman
Later on, which you also missed, Earth strongly recommended what Pie did to me D1, which is to clarify with the game mod/host if lawyer/framer/godfather can trick me or not. To my surprise, they couldn't, since I did ask on PM when told to.
That2User
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@RationalMadman
I think the biggest slip ever is that Mharman and Whiteflame clearly got lost during their mafia chat and forgot I'd outed with a clear on Earth, there is absolutley no way they had the same slip this close to each other without outside communication, I would believe. Do you notice how Mharman hasn't said shit to me since that slip to justify it?
I see WF knowing Earth is town, Earth being WF's  100% town, I haven't seen Mha make notice of Earth being fully town tho
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@That2User
Erm, he literlaly slipped one page ago, Whiteflame literally said he didn't know if Earth was town until I corrected him even at the top of this page.
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@That2User
Mharman and Whiteflame had the same slip within one page of each other. The exact same error in game knowledge.
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@RationalMadman
I think the biggest slip ever is that Mharman and Whiteflame clearly got lost during their mafia chat and forgot I'd outed with a clear on Earth, there is absolutley no way they had the same slip this close to each other without outside communication, I would believe. Do you notice how Mharman hasn't said shit to me since that slip to justify it?
If you believe this, then it is seriously incredible how many of my posts you haven't read, probably because you are so stuck on lynching me that you haven't cared what I had to say. I forgot that you claimed to have used your Justice role and cleared Earth? I've mentioned it several times, including on this very page.


Anyway, it's late, and frankly I'm just not interested in continuing this back-and-forth, particularly if you're just going to blatantly lie about what I've said before. You want to harangue Mharman for forgetting what you said back at the beginning of the DP? Go ahead, I don't really care, but I've acknowledged it multiple times and stated elsewhere that Earth is basically confirmed town at this point.

 Whiteflame literally said he didn't know if Earth was town until I corrected him even at the top of this page.
Who's making stuff up now? In which post did I say that I didn't know if Earth was town? I'm seriously lost.
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Also, let's be clear about something: seeing RM as sus means you do not trust his Justice result. I've said, now multiple times, why I believe Earth is town independent of that result because I think that RM is scum and therefore have little reason to trust the results he gave. Nonetheless, and I've said this multiple times too, his Justice results town confirm Earth, if you believe them.
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If we have to lynch between the investigation claims, we're lynching WF. RM constantly was softing Parity Cop and I can look in my PM to see I am town. 
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Going to try to hash out the theme. Would like someone to repost the claims list.
That2User
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@Earth
WF-Boxing-Cop
RM-Kung Fu-Justice
Earth-Judo-Tracker/Watcher
Mhar-Sambo-Vanilla
Supa-Capoiera-Vanilla
That2-Karate-BP
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@Earth
@Vader
@Mharman
@That2User
Alright, I'm not interested in fighting this out with RM anymore at this point. You guys are the ones who will decide this, and I'll try to condense my thoughts down to one post.

The more I keep looking back through the previous two DPs, the more I'm finding I dismissed offhand as "normal" for RM.

He dragged out his claim in DP1, using the opportunity to push for as many character claims as possible and push for other investigative roles to CC him. I wasn't going to CC him and paint a target on my back. Earth made the same choice. This was just straight up anti-town since it was all based on a misconstrued theme split anyway, which itself was built on the premise that Luna had given him information that none of the rest of us had. Still, I could respect that if he had just explained himself up front and full-claimed, but instead he dragged things out and when he made his claim, he said Justice. That's a peculiar claim in any instance and impossible to verify. 

Since then, he has spent the vast majority of DP2 saying that there is absolutely no way that there is a Cop and a Justice. He paints these two as though they directly CC each other, but noted himself that a Justice is unaffected by lawyering, framing or a Godfather, and that's not to mention how different the two of them work in general. When that argument wasn't getting traction, he suddenly became aware that the Justice role was called a Parity Cop in some games and has been harping on that ever since.

RM has also been all over the place, often contradicting himself and the basic facts in an attempt to find "scum slips." On the previous page alone, he's repeatedly accused me of having suddenly forgotten about his claimed Justice result, despite my having mentioned it directly in several posts. He has now pointed several times to my first post in this DP where I mistakenly put the count at 5-2, despite his initially failing to notice that Pie was already dead during the NP to the point that he cast his first VTL against him. He completely ignores every theme split that contradicts his vision of who must be scum in this game while touting his own on the basis that he's the one with the "airtight logic," simultaneously accepting that BJJ must be in this game and excluding it from his own theme split analyses. He keeps pushing different versions of who must be the strongman and/or ninja and/or roleblocker on arbitrary bases, and pushes the false claim that there will be any uncertainty in the next DP if I'm still alive, since I have outright said that everyone should vote for me if I'm still alive when we get there. I'll be the first.


As far as I'm concerned, RM is the obvious choice, but part of that comes from knowing what my PM says, having strong reason to believe that there are not 3 investigative roles in this game, and strongly townreading Earth. We all agree that Earth is town, regardless of whether we buy RM's results. Much as I don't want to make it a me or him situation, that's what it has become, with the sole other option being the VTNL. I'm still fine with that because there is at least some chance that we'll be able to narrow down the options for who his scum partner is, if not in this NP than the next, on the basis of PoE alone. My vote's staying there for now because I think it's the smartest move we can make at the moment. Still, if you guys decide to lynch me here and now, I'll hammer and end this. There's only so much I can say and we've been going for long enough already that I'm not going to drag this out any further.
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@Earth
@Vader
@Mharman
@That2User
I think I fpund a theme. This is going to sound absolutely ridiculpus but if I am right it makes it bery clear that Sambo and Boxing are the theme.

Sambo and Boxing not only were primarily designed to vs themselves but the figjters wear protective gear in the authentic version.

Bare knuckle boxing has become a variant, not the default.

While Sambo and BJJ are based on boxing, the protective gear they wear is not worn in authentic boxing

If wrong, capoiera deals with leg attacks while boxing deals with arm attacks, it could be some odd duo.

In Karate the strikes of punching are there but Karate experts rarely utilise it because palm-strikes and kicks are much safer fight-wise. In Karate one of the only punches is a straight chest-aimed punch. This means if the opponent kicks, pushes, grabs, strikes etc back you are getting directly.hit if their limbs have the range of yours (or greater range). Furthermore it opens the arm up to locks and opens the stomach up to all sorts of attack if the opponent is nimble enough to handle the punch well.

Karate and boxing are only similar in that they exclusively strike but if that really is the theme, why would Kung Fu and Muay Thai, which are so strike-heavy be Town while BJJ is not even in the game?
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@Earth
@RationalMadman
@Vader
@whiteflame
@That2User
All I can say at this point is, take the test and see what happens. You all have some level of uncertainty, and that all can be answered with the test. I don’t have anything else to say other than what I have already said.
Earth
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@Mharman
What test?
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@Earth
…. The one Whiteflame outlined.

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@Earth
Did you miss the whole discussion?
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@Earth
Or parts of it?
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@Earth
Last paragraph in #113
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@Earth
As for what to do at this stage, if the goal is to gain info, I think it's risky to lynch. A mislynch at this point ends the game. I don't necessarily like a VTNL, but as the Cop, I necessarily should be killed off during the NP. If I'm not dead during the NP, I'm the easy lynch during the next DP, and it strikes me that with these investigative roles, we could do a lot with even one NP even if someone is faking their claim. I think that information is more valuable than the potential of getting another crack at figuring out the theme split in a game where it's pretty likely that at least one scum is fake claiming their martial art anyway. Hell, if we're looking to be even more certain, we all agree that Earth is basically confirmed town at this point. He could Watch me during the NP, or, if RM doesn't trust those results, he already said that his Justice role wouldn't be compromised by framing, lawyering or a godfather. Confirm me that way, or have each of you confirm someone else and have the game sorted in a single NP since I will be confirmed scum if I survive this NP. All we do is go from MYLO to LYLO. Nothing substantive changes. We don't need my Cop or to keep theorizing about possible theme splits to win this.

It seems straightforward to me. VTNL.
-WF #113
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@Earth
There is no test. They are desperate for a NL as they autolose otherwise, which tells me that WF will do the kill tonight and sac himself for his partner to kill you.
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Btw after I am dead, if that2 ejds up lynched, I will not forgive whatever person does so. If I  not dead and instead I am roleblocked, Sambo is the roleblocker by logic of the grappling involved.
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@Earth
@Vader
If we NL here, I want ypur ecplicit loyalty to a read:

That2user is Town.

If you rethink this or back out, you are the singular point of failure in Town. I am that sure due to several things WF slipped and did or didnt do. I won't specify it, it is many small things.
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Sambo and boxing both have a B in them btw. At this point I am open to theme splits as stupid as that. LUNATIC HAD NO INTELLIGENT THEME SPLIT, that is for sure.

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"I want to outlive my children"

Whiteflame- 2 /4- RM, That2User
VTNL- 1 /4- Whiteflame

35 hours remaining
RationalMadman
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Btw for theme analysis if Supa is scum, his martial art is to be negeted in reasoning, he had the easiest fakeclaim opportunity.

I want his reasoning that capoiera is vanilla, he said he'd provide it.
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@Vader
Activity bump
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@Earth
Going to try to hash out the theme
You have a theme?