Where do you see the US in a 100 years?

Author: Yassine

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#31
Incel-chud
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@Yassine
You're claiming US morals are worse than China's. It's absurd. Maybe you are dumb enough to believe American self depreciating behavior.  I don't know. 

If you has lived in China, you would know it is an extremely repressive regime. 

Had you lived in America and China, you would definitely prefer America. Anyone stupid enough to believe something different is a Chinese shill or a retard. There is no in between
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#32
Yassine
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@Incel-chud
You're claiming US morals are worse than China's. It's absurd. Maybe you are dumb enough to believe American self depreciating behavior.  I don't know. 
- Not that I care either way, but indeed that is objectively the case. You've just been indoctrinated ad nauseam to accept BS behavior as something to be proud of.


If you has lived in China, you would know it is an extremely repressive regime. 
- I really believe you're not that stupid to believe such nonsense. Visit China, it's a gorgeous & warm country. Lots of history & tech. We're not living in the Cold War era anymore, this type of language will just make people laugh at you.


Had you lived in America and China, you would definitely prefer America. Anyone stupid enough to believe something different is a Chinese shill or a retard. There is no in between
- You must not travel around the world much! Who told you this bunch of drivel? 
#33
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@Yassine
I think 100 years is probably too far out for useful speculation.  Sci-Fi writers in 1930's-50's mostly thought we'd have robots and automated vehicles and colonies on Mars by now.  At the present rate of change, I think we'd need to establish some assumptions before speculating.  Climate is going to be a massive wildcard likely driving radical shifts in geopolitics.

#34
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Make no mistake, the Chinese are ahead technologically—and way ahead in some quarters. ... China is also pursuing research in artificial intelligence and quantum computing at a pace that is difficult to measure, but could render the U.S. and its allies anemic in cybersecurity wars in coming years.
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#35
Yassine
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@FLRW
Make no mistake, the Chinese are ahead technologically—and way ahead in some quarters. ... China is also pursuing research in artificial intelligence and quantum computing at a pace that is difficult to measure, but could render the U.S. and its allies anemic in cybersecurity wars in coming years.
- So, what's your take on the subject, where do you the future of the US in global stage?

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#36
Yassine
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@oromagi
I think 100 years is probably too far out for useful speculation.  Sci-Fi writers in 1930's-50's mostly thought we'd have robots and automated vehicles and colonies on Mars by now.  At the present rate of change, I think we'd need to establish some assumptions before speculating. 
- Thoughts on the next 10 years? By 2050? By the end of the century?


Climate is going to be a massive wildcard likely driving radical shifts in geopolitics.
- 21st century Climate Change is 20th century Overpopulation. Political tools to be used as leverage for political dominion. 

#37
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@Yassine
- This is already ongoing. Where do you see the US in 2050 & in 2100?
In 30 years I would say they’re in the same position, just with less influence and less military presence abroad. 
In 80 years I have no idea. More of the same with less influence and a drastic decrease of military presence in Asia. 

Internal politics is way harder to predict. 

- Why not 100 years or less? Africa's current average income is around $5k, which is about Europe's average post-WWII, & China's income 20 years ago. It will also have the largest & youngest population of any region or race by the end of the century.
I wouldn’t say 100 years. Africa is very diverse with a lot of moving parts and lot of corruption. There’s a lot of institutional development that needs to happen. I think it will take time. 
#38
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@Reece101
Wait 400 years.....Give or take 100.


One reads these threads.

And certain things just jump out at you.


Plus or minus 25%.......Is that a reasonable margin of error?
#39
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@Yassine
There is nothing I posted that is racist or ignorant.

Arabs invented algebra and the number zero. They didnt do much for science beyond that. I have no idea who you think you are fooling.

They rivalled greeks on trigonometry.
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#40
Yassine
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@RationalMadman
There is nothing I posted that is racist or ignorant.
- No racist admits he is... Everything you posted is *factually* false, as proven.


Arabs invented algebra and the number zero. They didnt do much for science beyond that.
- Except Natural Science itself, Modern Medicine, Social Science, Engineering & Classical Physics. I literally listed a bunch of things they did, yet here you are sticking your head in the sand & pretending nothing exists. 


I have no idea who you think you are fooling.
- Was that a monologue? Let's have a debate on the subject, we'll see who's the fooler then. 


They rivalled greeks on trigonometry.
- Why do you love making shit up? Muslim invented Trigonometry as well, Calculus too.

#41
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@zedvictor4
Wait 400 years.....Give or take 100.


One reads these threads.

And certain things just jump out at you.


Plus or minus 25%.......Is that a reasonable margin of error?
I have no idea. Why would it matter? 
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#42
Yassine
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@Reece101
In 30 years I would say they’re in the same position, just with less influence and less military presence abroad.
- How do you predict that will play out without the technological, economic, & fiscal advantage? – By 2050, China would've grown to at least twice the size of US economy (it already outputs 3 times its industry & 7 times its agricultural production), that also means at least twice the military budget of the US, while having the technological advantage. 


In 80 years I have no idea. More of the same with less influence and a drastic decrease of military presence in Asia. 
Internal politics is way harder to predict. 
- Are you a civil war believer?


I wouldn’t say 100 years. Africa is very diverse with a lot of moving parts and lot of corruption. There’s a lot of institutional development that needs to happen. I think it will take time. 
- I don't disagree about the process, but a 100 years is a very long time. Today's Nigeria's economy is larger than 100 years ago US economy. 

#43
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@Yassine
- How do you predict that will play out without the technological, economic, & fiscal advantage? – By 2050, China would've grown to at least twice the size of US economy (it already outputs 3 times its industry & 7 times its agricultural production), that also means at least twice the military budget of the US, while having the technological advantage. 
By “same position” I mean continued decline of projected power. There will still be CIA espionage, etc. 

- Are you a civil war believer?
Not really. 

- I don't disagree about the process, but a 100 years is a very long time. Today's Nigeria's economy is larger than 100 years ago US economy. 
There are way more variables than just Nigeria and how well it’s done. 
#44
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@Reece101
Just saying.

Amongst all else,

It was a comment that just stood out.

Not quite like carbon dating or something, whereby one might say 10000 years, plus or minus a hundred years.


But for sure,

It doesn't matter at all.
#45
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@zedvictor4
Not quite like carbon dating or something, whereby one might say 10000 years, plus or minus a hundred years.
Predicting future societies in/past 100 years is a bit more complicated than carbon dating something 10,000 years old.

One is an actual science, the other is me just sitting in an armchair. Though you could do it with a supercomputer and heaps of data. It would probably be more accurate than an individual. I’m sure this form of research already exists. 
#46
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@Reece101
I like the armchair option.
#47
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Don't know where the US will be. But I know where I'll be.

I'd be 118 in 100 years.

That means I'll either be 6 feet in the ground or knocking on deaths doors
#48
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@Yassine
So, in terms of physics, chemistry, biology, psychology and technology what did the Middle East contribute in the past five centuries?

#49
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@Yassine
Sp did Greeks, pythagorean theorum was made by a greek. Trigonometry was Greek influenced, not just Arab.
#50
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dead in the grave where it belongs
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#51
Yassine
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@Vader
Don't know where the US will be. But I know where I'll be.
I'd be 118 in 100 years.
That means I'll either be 6 feet in the ground or knocking on deaths doors
- Maybe they'll invent brain transplant by then... Or not! Where do you see Greece in a 100 years?

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#52
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@Dr.Franklin
dead in the grave where it belongs
- Ouch! You don't seem as optimistic about the future as the others. It is because of the decadence you mentioned in your other post?


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#53
Yassine
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@RationalMadman
So, in terms of physics, chemistry, biology, psychology and technology what did the Middle East contribute in the past five centuries?
- The right question is what didn't they contribute. It's understandable why European revisionism gained such momentum & acceptance in late 19th century & early 20th century Europe, powerful colonial industrialized states with deeply racist ideologies to whom gratitude or recognition to Muslims was unthinkable. Though, we can't generalize. A great number of intellectuals, especially those sincere among them, stood against this nonsense, such as LeBon & Briffault. The History of knowledge & sciences thus becoming: something basic by the Greeks, then a reiteration by the Romans, then 1000 years of absolutely nothing, then an extraordinary invention by a European prophet. I also understand why they teach you this dumb childish narrative, it's part of your national myth, which every nation has. What I don't understand is why you expect others to subscribe to your myths!!! We have our own History.

- As to your question, although the Muslim world started declining mid-18th century, slowly abandoning much of their sciences, the collection, translation & studying of Islamic works continued in Europe until late 19th century. Muslim ideas permeated Renaissance & Enlightenment Europe, in everything. Just from what little we know about that period, the influence is huge. Of the +120,000 Islamic manuscripts collected during Enlightenment & prior in historic European institutions, only few hundreds are accessible today, mostly about literature & religious related topics. In astronomy, for instance, only a few of the +10,000 available manuscripts may be accessible in European institutions. Also, a very limited number of the +3 million manuscripts across the Muslim world, few dozens of thousands; even much less are in print, in the thousands. Despite that, we can already see huge influence of Muslim ideas on Europeans. From major paradigm shifts in Science, such as Evolution, where Mu'tazilite ideas about increasing complexity of life (from minerals to plants to corals to jellyfish to vertebrates to mammals to monkeys & finally humans) to natural selection, adaptive traits, survival of the fittest, camouflage, prey & predator... gained popularity in 19th century Europe, this constituted one of the arguments against the Church then for not adopting Evolution as Muslims already have (they mistakenly thought this was mainstream belief among Muslims, it wasn't) – or Set Theory, which was founded on one-to-one correspondence, quantifying the object & infinity nature, first brought up by Hamilton then Cantor (who is credited with it), although these ideas were widely studied & taught by Muslims for centuries. [I was actually shocked to learn that these ideas were "invented" by Europeans, since I learned them prior, such as from Sunusi's work (Jumal, from 15th century) who describes 112 rules of sets, about bijection, inclusion...] – The Ash'ari atomic & cosmic theory of matter & the universe (then mainstream in the Muslim world), that efficient causation is inductive, not necessary, that events are isolated & discrete, that nature is uniform by habit ('ada), dimensions are relative contingent on perception, such as time & space, that matter is quantized, accidents (motion/stillness, combination/separation) are probable until actualized, that time & space are quantized, that velocity is bounded.... which were adopted by the anti-Newtonian movement in Europe (by Berkley, Hume & others) to culminate into Relativity & Quantum Physics. To groundbreaking technologies, such as: firearms & the various weapons we are familiar today, which made the Ottomans & the Mughals so dominant, including canons, torpedoes use to sink ships, tanks used to bring down gates, rockets, rapid-fire guns... acquired by Europeans who developed these even further – the steam engine, used in by the Ottomans to carry loads but also for cooking & other mundane practices, then adopted by Europeans for more arduous tasks once coal was discovered (much denser in energy than firewood) – the mechanical clock (with hour hand, minute & seconds) invented by Taqi-deen Dimashqi in the 16th century – the variety of textile mills which made its way from the bay of Bengal to England, instigating the Industrial Revolution therein. To everyday practices, such as in Dentistry: dental restoration, implants, gold teeth, dental alignment...etc – Vaccination, adopted by Europeans from the Ottomans...etc. To even the most subtle things, such as Cancer categorization into 4 phases based on tumor size. We'll be here all day if I continue.


Sp did Greeks, pythagorean theorum was made by a greek.
- Pythagorean theorem existed a 1000 years before Greeks even existed. But same as everything else, Europeans love to credit it closer to home. 


Trigonometry was Greek influenced, not just Arab.
- You mean geometric trigonometry. I didn't deny Greeks influenced Muslim in Geometry, who themselves influenced by Egyptians & Babylonians. I was referring to analytical trigonometry. In fact, it is Muslims who invented analytical Mathematics, where world problems were first modelized into general statements & equations, then solved deductively with deductive general solutions & proofs, instead of case-based solutions. This was later adopted in Physics as well, especially with Ibn Haytham & Biruni, to infer mathematical & analytical theories from observation & experimentation. 
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#54
Yassine
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@RationalMadman
So, in terms of physics, chemistry, biology, psychology and technology what did the Middle East contribute in the past five centuries?
- Add to all the above, all the moral, legal & political influence, which are greater than any other, in liberty, equality, religious freedom, women's rights, commercial law, contracts, animal rights... & everything else.

#55
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@Yassine
- Ouch! You don't seem as optimistic about the future as the others. It is because of the decadence you mentioned in your other post?
Do you have any opinions on it? What things do you consider decadent? Would your belief on decadence hold up across time?
There have been many things throughout history that have been considered decadent by older generations.
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#56
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@Reece101

Do you have any opinions on it?
- As I just said: Decadence is a human condition that all civilizations inevitably reach after long periods of prosperity, yet it is their last stop. As Ibn Khaldun explains, Stability leads to saving, which drive consumption, which initiates demand for luxury, which drives innovation, which leads to prosperity, & then further luxury, resulting in indulgence, from there decadence, decadence induces corruption, & corruption leads to oppression, hence death.


What things do you consider decadent?
- Self-gratification & self-indulgence. Civilizations start with barbaric lifestyles, & end in them too. For instance, immodesty has always been associated with crude uncivilized cultures, commoner/rural/nomadic/barbaric culture, while modesty is associated with the noble & civilized. Civilizations start in immodesty, then modesty, then succumb back to immodesty.


Would your belief on decadence hold up across time?
- You mean, decadence kills nations? Absolutely. It's just math.


There have been many things throughout history that have been considered decadent by older generations.
- & those things were the sign that those societies have failed. The West today reached levels of decadence never heard of before, naturally, since they also reached levels of stability, prosperity & wealth never heard of before. Decadence happens at the height of prosperity, it doesn't give the impression that the end is near. On the contrary, the prosperity & success only warrants more of it because the people believe they must be doing something right, otherwise how come they are prosperous. But that doesn't last, for corrupt societies are failed societies. You're no different from Greeks, or Romans, or even the Arabs. In Andalusia, long periods of prosperity & stability made the Muslims of the country indulgent: music, parties, obsession with luxuries...etc, they couldn't hold up against their resolved enemies with it counted. 

#57
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@Yassine
I assume you’re talking about decadents from a conservative Islamic lens. 

- As I just said: Decadence is a human condition that all civilizations inevitably reach after long periods of prosperity, yet it is their last stop. As Ibn Khaldun explains, Stability leads to saving, which drive consumption, which initiates demand for luxury, which drives innovation, which leads to prosperity, & then further luxury, resulting in indulgence, from there decadence, decadence induces corruption, & corruption leads to oppression, hence death.
Decadence leads to corruption which leads to oppression equaling death? Can you be more specific? 

- Self-gratification & self-indulgence. Civilizations start with barbaric lifestyles, & end in them too. For instance, immodesty has always been associated with crude uncivilized cultures, commoner/rural/nomadic/barbaric culture, while modesty is associated with the noble & civilized. Civilizations start in immodesty, then modesty, then succumb back to immodesty.
Self-gratification, self-indulgence, immodesty are all vague concepts.  

Would you consider them more internally detrimental to a civilisation rather than externally?
(Note: after reading your last paragraph I think I know where you stand for the most part.)

For example public beheadings for witchcraft and other such things. In meany ways public executions are self-gratifying, self-indulgent, and immodest. Though you might claim otherwise, many conservatives in the West wouldn’t mind invading said society. 

- Self-gratification & self-indulgence. Civilizations start with barbaric lifestyles, & end in them too. For instance, immodesty has always been associated with crude uncivilized cultures, commoner/rural/nomadic/barbaric culture, while modesty is associated with the noble & civilized. Civilizations start in immodesty, then modesty, then succumb back to immodesty.
Some try to cling onto barbaric teachings which stagnate their societies. 

- You mean, decadence kills nations? Absolutely. It's just math. 
 We’re not just talking about nations.

Do you think the Aztec Empire died out due to too many human sacrifices to their gods? 
I don’t think you understand how vague you’re being when talking about decadence.
Though you will probably think Allah gave them smallpox.

Can you give me estimates after you properly define what you mean by decadence?

- & those things were the sign that those societies have failed. The West today reached levels of decadence never heard of before, naturally, since they also reached levels of stability, prosperity & wealth never heard of before. Decadence happens at the height of prosperity, it doesn't give the impression that the end is near. On the contrary, the prosperity & success only warrants more of it because the people believe they must be doing something right, otherwise how come they are prosperous. But that doesn't last, for corrupt societies are failed societies. You're no different from Greeks, or Romans, or even the Arabs. In Andalusia, long periods of prosperity & stability made the Muslims of the country indulgent: music, parties, obsession with luxuries...etc, they couldn't hold up against their resolved enemies with it counted. 
Okay so mainly due to war and conquest then. Does that make war and conquest justifiable on that count? Do you think it’s justifiable in the modern era?
Wouldn’t you also consider the ones conducting said wars are partaking in self-gratification, self-indulgence, and immodesty? In other words, decadence. 
#58
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@Yassine
- Ouch! You don't seem as optimistic about the future as the others. It is because of the decadence you mentioned in your other post?
Yes I am not hopeful. The writing is on the wall and there is not a single significant trend that suggests improvement. The decadence I spoke of is the main reason.
#59
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@Yassine
@RationalMadman
So, in terms of physics, chemistry, biology, psychology and technology what did the Middle East contribute in the past five centuries?
- Add to all the above, all the moral, legal & political influence, which are greater than any other, in liberty, equality, religious freedom, women's rights, commercial law, contracts, animal rights... & everything else.
I'll take that as a concession to them not contributing much (if anything) at all to science in the past 5 centuries.

Now, let me also get this straight, you honestly believe that the Middle East and Islamic cultures in general pioneered liberty, equality, religious freedom, women's rights, commercial law, contracts, animal rights... & everything else.

To reiterate, you are under the impression that the Middle East pioneered the world's women's rights, religious freedoms, equality, liberty, commercial law, contracts and animal rights... oh and everything else too?
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#60
Yassine
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@RationalMadman
I'll take that as a concession to them not contributing much (if anything) at all to science in the past 5 centuries.
- I'll take this as you going full blown ostrich, burying your head in the sand does not mean the lion isn't there. Very convenient of you to omit my previous post just to say this dumb shit again. 

>>> I'm gunna put this in bold so you don't "miss" it again:

So, in terms of physics, chemistry, biology, psychology and technology what did the Middle East contribute in the past five centuries?
- The right question is what didn't they contribute. It's understandable why European revisionism gained such momentum & acceptance in late 19th century & early 20th century Europe, powerful colonial industrialized states with deeply racist ideologies to whom gratitude or recognition to Muslims was unthinkable. Though, we can't generalize. A great number of intellectuals, especially those sincere among them, stood against this nonsense, such as LeBon & Briffault. The History of knowledge & sciences thus becoming: something basic by the Greeks, then a reiteration by the Romans, then 1000 years of absolutely nothing, then an extraordinary invention by a European prophet. I also understand why they teach you this dumb childish narrative, it's part of your national myth, which every nation has. What I don't understand is why you expect others to subscribe to your myths!!! We have our own History.

- As to your question, although the Muslim world started declining mid-18th century, slowly abandoning much of their sciences, the collection, translation & studying of Islamic works continued in Europe until late 19th century. Muslim ideas permeated Renaissance & Enlightenment Europe, in everything. Just from what little we know about that period, the influence is huge. Of the +120,000 Islamic manuscripts collected during Enlightenment & prior in historic European institutions, only few hundreds are accessible today, mostly about literature & religious related topics. In astronomy, for instance, only a few of the +10,000 available manuscripts may be accessible in European institutions. Also, a very limited number of the +3 million manuscripts across the Muslim world, few dozens of thousands; even much less are in print, in the thousands. Despite that, we can already see huge influence of Muslim ideas on Europeans. From major paradigm shifts in Science, such as Evolution, where Mu'tazilite ideas about increasing complexity of life (from minerals to plants to corals to jellyfish to vertebrates to mammals to monkeys & finally humans) to natural selection, adaptive traits, survival of the fittest, camouflage, prey & predator... gained popularity in 19th century Europe, this constituted one of the arguments against the Church then for not adopting Evolution as Muslims already have (they mistakenly thought this was mainstream belief among Muslims, it wasn't) – or Set Theory, which was founded on one-to-one correspondence, quantifying the object & infinity nature, first brought up by Hamilton then Cantor (who is credited with it), although these ideas were widely studied & taught by Muslims for centuries. [I was actually shocked to learn that these ideas were "invented" by Europeans, since I learned them prior, such as from Sunusi's work (Jumal, from 15th century) who describes 112 rules of sets, about bijection, inclusion...] – The Ash'ari atomic & cosmic theory of matter & the universe (then mainstream in the Muslim world), that efficient causation is inductive, not necessary, that events are isolated & discrete, that nature is uniform by habit ('ada), dimensions are relative contingent on perception, such as time & space, that matter is quantized, accidents (motion/stillness, combination/separation) are probable until actualized, that time & space are quantized, that velocity is bounded.... which were adopted by the anti-Newtonian movement in Europe (by Berkley, Hume & others) to culminate into Relativity & Quantum Physics. To groundbreaking technologies, such as: firearms & the various weapons we are familiar today, which made the Ottomans & the Mughals so dominant, including canons, torpedoes use to sink ships, tanks used to bring down gates, rockets, rapid-fire guns... acquired by Europeans who developed these even further – the steam engine, used in by the Ottomans to carry loads but also for cooking & other mundane practices, then adopted by Europeans for more arduous tasks once coal was discovered (much denser in energy than firewood) – the mechanical clock (with hour hand, minute & seconds) invented by Taqi-deen Dimashqi in the 16th century – the variety of textile mills which made its way from the bay of Bengal to England, instigating the Industrial Revolution therein. To everyday practices, such as in Dentistry: dental restoration, implants, gold teeth, dental alignment...etc – Vaccination, adopted by Europeans from the Ottomans...etc. To even the most subtle things, such as Cancer categorization into 4 phases based on tumor size. We'll be here all day if I continue.


Sp did Greeks, pythagorean theorum was made by a greek.
- Pythagorean theorem existed a 1000 years before Greeks even existed. But same as everything else, Europeans love to credit it closer to home. 


Trigonometry was Greek influenced, not just Arab.
- You mean geometric trigonometry. I didn't deny Greeks influenced Muslim in Geometry, who themselves influenced by Egyptians & Babylonians. I was referring to analytical trigonometry. In fact, it is Muslims who invented analytical Mathematics, where world problems were first modelized into general statements & equations, then solved deductively with deductive general solutions & proofs, instead of case-based solutions. This was later adopted in Physics as well, especially with Ibn Haytham & Biruni, to infer mathematical & analytical theories from observation & experimentation. 


Now, let me also get this straight, you honestly believe that the Middle East and Islamic cultures in general pioneered liberty, equality, religious freedom, women's rights, commercial law, contracts, animal rights... & everything else.
To reiterate, you are under the impression that the Middle East pioneered the world's women's rights, religious freedoms, equality, liberty, commercial law, contracts and animal rights... oh and everything else too?
- If I'm not wrong, you seem to be under the impression that the above isn't true... If you so disagree with me, you can always debate me on the subject. You can also bring proof (which don't exist) to show that this is, in fact, not true. If you're just asking because you're curious, then I'll be glad to give you all the information you seek, you need just ask.