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@Reece101
“They both look white to me, simple as”
Whoopi Goldberg is right about the holocaust
Posts
Total:
121
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@thett3
A nonanswer. Or do you think racism is only to do with skin pigmentation? You don’t have to hide behind quotes by the way.
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@Reece101
I don’t know, haven’t really thought about it that deeply since I don’t care. Since that’s what “race” overwhelmingly refers to in America an American saying they don’t view two groups of white people killing each other as racism doesn’t seem like such a faux pas to me
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@Reece101
What are you doing? This is very simple and you seem to be obfuscating
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@thett3
Eh, I understand the rational,
I still think it's an incorrect perspective.
Doesn't matter if it's a Roman and a Gaul,
A Hutu and a Tutsi,
Or an Italian American and an Irish American.
Many of those people thought of each other as different races,
And some conflicts big and small have been related to perceived race.
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@Lemming
I wouldn’t say calling it racism would be ridiculous, I may call it that myself. I just don’t get the outrage that someone thinks of it in a slightly different way. It’s just such an odd thing to be offended by…something can be wrong without being “racist”
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@thett3
I don’t know, haven’t really thought about it that deeply since I don’t care. Since that’s what “race” overwhelmingly refers to in America an American saying they don’t view two groups of white people killing each other as racism doesn’t seem like such a faux pas to me
I don’t know why you’re trying to justify ignorance. You don’t think race/racism is to do with perceived cultural divides as well?
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@Incel-chud
What are you doing? This is very simple and you seem to be obfuscating
How am I obfuscating? Do you also believe antisemitism doesn’t fall under racism?
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@Reece101
I don’t know why you’re trying to justify ignorance. You don’t think race/racism is to do with perceived cultural divides?
Why do you care so much about this lol
Of course it has to do with that. A reasonable, well meaning person could also think “racism” refers more specifically to discrimination based on race, and a reasonable, well meaning person might consider ethnic Germans and German Jews to be the same race. Someone else might disagree. Who cares?
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@Reece101
This is about what Whoopi believes. You are obfuscating. Whether her views are accurate or not, how would it make her racist to say a great atrocity happened to jews, but that it wasn't motivated by racism.
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@thett3
Why do you care so much about this lol
I care about truth.
Of course it has to do with that. A reasonable, well meaning person could also think “racism” refers more specifically to discrimination based on race, and a reasonable, well meaning person might consider ethnic Germans and German Jews to be the same race. Someone else might disagree. Who cares?
Look, I’m not giving you an inch. Like I said, race/racism is to do with perceived cultural divides, which you agreed with. But then in the next sentence you used a third person as a front for beliefs you’re trying to cling on to. A reasonable, well meaning person my ass. What an intellectual coward.
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@Reece101
Look, I’m not giving you an inch. Like I said, race/racism is to do with perceived cultural divides, which you agreed with, but then in the next sentence you used a third person as a front for beliefs your trying to cling on to. A reasonable, well meaning person my ass. What an intellectual coward.
Calm down lol. Isn’t this entire thread about a third person? If I agree with anyone I would say I agree more with Whoopi because I think race as a concept is more complex than simply culture, and does have a lot to do with appearance and historical geography instead of just culture. But I also couldn’t care less. If you disagree that’s totally fine, and if you called a British person calling an Irish person a slur racism I wouldn’t object. Piece of work though she is, Whoopi shouldn’t have been punished for having a different view that isn’t even that unreasonable
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@Incel-chud
This is about what Whoopi believes. You are obfuscating. Whether her views are accurate or not, how would it make her racist to say a great atrocity happened to jews, but that it wasn't motivated by racism.
I didn’t claim she’s racist. She just doesn’t know what racism is holistically.
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@thett3
Calm down lol. Isn’t this entire thread about a third person? If I agree with anyone I would say I agree more with Whoopi because I think race as a concept is more complex than simply culture, and does have a lot to do with appearance and historical geography instead of just culture. But I also couldn’t care less. If you disagree that’s totally fine, and if you called a British person calling an Irish person a slur racism I wouldn’t object. Piece of work though she is, Whoopi shouldn’t have been punished for having a different view that isn’t even that unreasonable
Don’t perpetuate false-hoods.
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@Reece101
1. The perspectives contradict how?
Because they’re all inconsistent narratives, historically a lot of people were misinformed/ignorant regarding race (one drop rule is a perfect example of this) Hitler included, if he cared about science at all in that regard he would know that the Jews he killed has European ancestry/DNA similar to his, as for linguistically that’s the least fundamental of all when you take into account the spectrum of varying differences in language of the past and present due to popular bias.
2. doesn’t it make perfect sense to say antisemitism falls under racism?
No, because Jewish is a religion not a race, that’s like calling Antichrist people racist, the two are non sequiturs. Even if you wanted to argue from a Jewish bloodline perspective that doesn’t negate the fact that race is still a non sequitur, maybe that more falls under the lines of for lack of a better term xenophobia (don’t quote me on that one), it’s important to know the differences between race, ethnicity, and nationality.
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@Tarik
Because they’re all inconsistent narratives, historically a lot of people were misinformed/ignorant regarding race (one drop rule is a perfect example of this) Hitler included.
Obviously logical positions rule out illogical positions when it comes to defining race/racism in their entirety.
No, because Jewish is a religion not a race, that’s like calling Antichrist people racist, the two are non sequiturs.
Jewish refers to both genealogical and cultural properties which are racial. Are you saying because Nazi’s had false perceptions about Jewish people, that meant they weren’t racist? We’re still talking about bigotry towards a racial group, right?
Even if you wanted to argue from a Jewish bloodline perspective that doesn’t negate the fact that race is still a non sequitur, that more falls under the lines of xenophobia, it’s important to know the differences between race, ethnicity, and nationality.
Xenophobia still falls under racism just like antisemitism.
let’s do a thought experiment.
If I tell you there’s a race of people with advanced technology, would you consider that statement illogical in and of itself in a purely racial sense?
And how so? To me advanced technology is the only indicator I need to know that they are a separate race. Ancestry is irrelevant.
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@Reece101
Obviously logical positions rule out illogical positions when it comes to defining race/racism in their entirety.
Well historically many of the positions were illogical, my point exactly.
Xenophobia still falls under racism just like antisemitism.
No it doesn’t, they’re different terms for a reason. Race isn’t that broad of a category where you can take two unrelated subjects and chalk them up to race related, a xenophobic comment is saying I don’t like Americans, well contrary to many beliefs Americans are composed of many different races of people so your not saying anything pertaining to race just culture and lifestyle. The word I was tripping on was tribalism BTW not xenophobia but that’s not the here nor there, do you know the differences between race, ethnicity, and nationality or not? Because the only way this discussion can be productive is if you acknowledge that question.
Ancestry is irrelevant.
Your ancestors make up your racial background so if the narrative is race then it’s very relevant, the only thing that’s irrelevant is calling white cruelty against white people racist, I mean seriously dude are homophobes racist too if they consider gay people an inferior race? Give me a break.
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@Tarik
Well historically many of the positions were illogical, my point exactly.
Hence racism.
No it doesn’t, they’re different terms for a reason. Race isn’t that broad of a category where you can take two unrelated subjects and chalk them up to race related
Are you seriously trying to say xenophobia isn’t related to racism when you’re the one who brought up xenophobia out of the blue when we were originally talking about racism. Obviously they’re related or else you wouldn’t be trying to defend it.
, a xenophobic comment is saying I don’t like Americans, well contrary to many beliefs Americans are composed of many different races of people so your not saying anything pertaining to race just culture and lifestyle.
Are you sure they’re races and not ethnicities? That was sarcasm by the way. Look at race holistically and you’ll see many positions aren’t mutually exclusive.
The word I was tripping on was tribalism BTW not xenophobia but that’s not the here nor there, do you know the differences between race, ethnicity
I see little to no difference apart from colloquial practicalities.
Your ancestors make up your racial background so if the narrative is race then it’s very relevant, the only thing that’s irrelevant is calling white cruelty against white people racist, I mean seriously dude are homophobes racist too if they consider gay people an inferior race? Give me a break.
Can you please reply to my arguments in full, and not cherry pick little segments of what I say.
Let’s say our race of people splits in half, my side goes into the dark ages while your side goes on a 1000 year technological journey. Would you say we are still the same race? I would say we’re different races of people
Homosexuality is a sexual orientation. Sexual orientation does not equate to race. I confine race to genealogy and culture.
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@Reece101
Obviously they’re related or else you wouldn’t be trying to defend it.
I also brought up homosexuality, is that related?
Look at race holistically and you’ll see many positions aren’t mutually exclusive.
Just because you choose to add more unrelated variables into the equation doesn’t make your view anymore holistic then mine.
I see little to no difference apart from colloquial practicalities.
Well that’s the issue here, hence why your chalking everything up to racism when it’s not, and maybe you should be a little more concerned with truth and technicalities before you deem anyone as illogical when you subscribe to that same line of thinking, just saying.
Let’s say our race of people splits in half, my side goes into the dark ages while your side goes on a 1000 year technological journey. Would you say we are still the same race? I would say we’re different races of people
…Seriously dude you can’t base the intrinsic nature of this subject on a ridiculous/impossible hypothetical like that, again give me a break.
I confine race to genealogy and culture.
Interesting how you say that because if I were to look at this through a “holistic” lens then genealogy falls under ancestry, the term you happened to deem as irrelevant. As for culture, society very well promotes a certain culture for a homosexual lifestyle so miss me with that.
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@Tarik
I also brought up homosexuality, is that related?
I don’t know why you would being up homosexuality when I’ve been concise about how I define race.
Why did you bring it up?
Just because you choose to add more unrelated variables into the equation doesn’t make your view anymore holistic then mine.
Can you tell me all the unrelated variables? Culture, genealogy, what else? Explain to me how they’re unrelated?
Well that’s the issue here, hence why your chalking everything up to racism when it’s not, and maybe you should be a little more concerned with truth and technicalities before you deem anyone as illogical when you subscribe to that same line of thinking, just saying.
What is the “everything”?
context of what you said:
Because they’re all inconsistent narratives, historically a lot of people were misinformed/ignorant regarding race (one drop rule is a perfect example of this) Hitler included, if he cared about science at all in that regard he would know that the Jews he killed has European ancestry/DNA similar to his, as for linguistically that’s the least fundamental of all when you take into account the spectrum of varying differences in language of the past and present due to popular bias.
…
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@Reece101
Why did you bring it up?
As for culture, society very well promotes a certain culture for a homosexual lifestyle so miss me with that.
Explain to me how they’re unrelated?
I think my homosexuality example answers that one.
What is the “everything”?
Antisemitism, Xenophobia, and Tribalism. Your trying to categorize all those narratives into one when the only common denominator is prejudice not racism, and let me make something clear in case you ask me, prejudice is a broad branch and racism falls under it so what is racist is always prejudice but what is prejudice isn’t necessarily always racism. Almost like fruits, all apples are fruits but not all fruits are apples, same applies to discrimination they come in many forms just like fruits do.
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@Tarik
That doesn’t answer why. I’m assuming you’re just quoting yourself.
I think my homosexuality example answers that one.
How?
Antisemitism, Xenophobia, and Tribalism. Your trying to categorize all those narratives into one when the only common denominator is prejudice not racism,
That’s like saying the only common denominator between trains, planes and cars are wheels. That’s not the best way too look at it if you want the full scope. They are words that describe a variety of beliefs and circumstances which often overlap.
and let me make something clear in case you ask me prejudice is a broad branch and racism falls under it so what is racist is always prejudice what is is prejudice isn’t necessarily always racism. Almost like fruits, all apples are fruits but not all fruits are apples, same applies to discrimination they come in many forms just like fruits do.
Originally it was antisemitism, but then you inserted xenophobia and tribalism into the argument uncalled for. I know what you’re trying to do. Did I say xenophobia and tribalism fall under racism? No. Did I say xenophobia and racism are related? Yes, specifically due to you throwing it into the conversation out of no where.
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@Reece101
That doesn’t answer why. I’m assuming you’re just quoting yourself.
That’s because my quote covers it, your definition is predicated on culture is it not? My quote addresses culture.
They are words that describe a variety of beliefs and circumstances which often overlap.
Yes, and I already said that word, Whoopi said inhumanity and I said prejudice.
Did I say xenophobia and tribalism fall under racism?
Not explicitly, but you definitely implied the sort with this rhetorical line of questioning
2. doesn’t it make perfect sense to say antisemitism falls under racism?
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@Tarik
That’s because my quote covers it, your definition is predicated on culture is it not? My quote addresses culture.
*sigh* You think homosexuality is a lifestyle (culture) right?
Yes, and I already said that word, Whoopi said inhumanity and I said prejudice.
You already said what word? It’s good you’re learning that words overlap with one another at times
Not explicitly, but you definitely implied the sort with this rhetorical line of questioning:2. doesn’t it make perfect sense to say antisemitism falls under racism?
By definition it does. Are you saying antisemitism, tribalism, and xenophobia are all exactly the same.
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@Reece101
*sigh* You think homosexuality is a lifestyle (culture) right?
No, but it’s promoted as such, kinda like how Hitler propagandized Jews as separate from whites, catch my drift yet? If not my point is culture has no bearing on race or sexuality, only society puts those stereotypes in the weak minded peoples heads, don’t be a sucker and fall for it.
You already said what word? It’s good you’re learning that words overlap with one another.
Maybe it’s about time you know that finding a common denominator between two different subjects doesn’t make those subjects overlap holistically, I can do this all day.
By definition it does.
Seriously dude your contradicting yourself all over the place, the two quotes I cited of you are proof of this.
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@Tarik
No, but it’s promoted as such, kinda like how Hitler propagandized Jews as separate from whites, catch my drift yet? If not my point is has no bearing on race or sexuality only society puts those stereotypes in the weak minded peoples heads, don’t be a sucker and fall for it.
Wait, let me get this straight. Homosexuality is promoted the same way Hitler propagandised Jews as separate from whites and that these stereotypes are placed in weak minded people? Seriously?
Maybe it’s about time you know that finding a common denominator between two different subjects doesn’t make those subjects overlap holistically, I can do this all day.
You’re conflating my arguments. Key words overlap and holistic.
Overlap: I was referring to antisemitism, xenophobia, tribalism when it comes to overlapping beliefs and circumstances.
Holistic: I was referring to both culture and genealogy when it comes to race.
Yeah I know you can do this all day.
Seriously dude your contradicting yourself all over the place, the two quotes I cited of you are proof of this.
It’s a shit opinion.
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@Reece101
Seriously?
Not an argument.
It’s a shit opinion.
It’s not an opinion it’s a fact, which I proved when I cited the two quotes.
Now it’s my turn to ask seriously (for the utmost time) because as far as I’m concerned your just going around in circles with nothing new to add to the discussion, so please lmk if/when you do.
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@Tarik
Seriously?Not an argument.
“Wait, let me get this straight. Homosexuality is promoted the same way Hitler propagandised Jews as separate from whites and that these stereotypes are placed in weak minded people? Seriously?“
You seriously consider what you claim as an argument? It’s wrong on multiple levels. You don’t give any reason, so why should I? Do you actually believe what you’re saying?
It’s not an opinion it’s a fact, which I proved when I cited the two quotes.
Your thoughts about antisemitism, xenophobia, and tribalism having exactly the same meaning when it comes to my position, are baseless.
I’ve only argued that antisemitism falls under racism, although all the above have overlap. Reread what I’ve said. You only brought up xenophobia and tribalism to throw me off.
Now it’s my turn to ask seriously (for the utmost time) because as far as I’m concerned your just going around in circles with nothing new to add to the discussion, so please lmk if/when you do.
Do you still think antisemitism is not racism?
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@Reece101
You seriously consider what you claim as an argument?
Well that’s what a claim is, an argument.
It’s wrong on multiple levels.
So gender roles, masculinity, femininity, and flamboyancy aren’t relevant terms? You think I just made those concepts up out of thin air? Dude read a book.
You don’t give any reason, so why should I?
I don’t need to provide reason because I’m not arguing for either side but to dismiss these concepts as facts of life is just flat out ignorance.
Do you still think antisemitism is not racism?
Seriously? What’s transpired between now and then for you to revisit that question?
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@Tarik
You seriously consider what you claim as an argument?Well that’s what a claim is, an argument
Claims upon claims without argumentation. What a coward.
So gender roles, masculinity, femininity, and flamboyancy aren’t relevant terms? You think I just made those concepts up out of thin air? Dude read a book
Okay now tell me to what extent are they relevant to what you claim?
Claim:
No, but it’s promoted as such, kinda like how Hitler propagandized Jews as separate from whites, catch my drift yet? If not my point is has no bearing on race or sexuality only society puts those stereotypes in the weak minded peoples heads, don’t be a sucker and fall for it.
If you’re saying gender roles, masculinity, femininity, and flamboyancy are propagandised stereotypes for the weak minded, I disagree.
BTW, the way you’ve set this up is really weird.
I don’t need to provide reason because I’m not arguing for either side but to dismiss these concepts as facts of life is just flat out ignorance.
You haven’t concluded any facts yet because you don’t want to hold any position to account.
Seriously? What’s transpired between now and then for you to revisit that question?
You didn’t answer my question why you don’t consider antisemitism racist.