Whoopi Goldberg is right about the holocaust

Was Whoopi Goldberg right about the holocaust not being about race? Whoopi says that racism is typically about dehumanizing people for convenient purposes, such as thinking of blacks as inferior, so people will turn a blind eye to slavery. Is racism just a way to stir up the masses, so those in power can commit atrocities, like whoopi goldberg explains. https://www.foxnews.com/media/whoopi-goldberg-stephen-colbert-holocaust-remarks

If you think the root cause of the holocaust was racism, please debate me here.


I am debating the topic here. https://www.debateart.com/debates/3311-the-holocaust-was-not-about-race

What's there to debate?

I am really going to mostly leave this topic to people not in the debate I issued. Once I have an opponent, I will chime in more.

I can't tell if you're trolling here or like genuinely upholding that view but how was Hitler not racist to Jews?

If Whoopi is saying that some Jews are too close to Caucasian to be considered a separate race then perhaps her dispute is more a technicality than a genuine Kritik.

In 19th century America, Jews were generally believed to be a distinct race within a broad category of white people.  Jews who wanted to maintain their distinct traditions self-described as both racially Jewish and white.  This was a common way of viewing race at the time; immigrant groups like the Germans, the Irish, and Jews were seen as distinct races, but they could still all be seen as white.  Some of these groups—like the Irish—were sometimes grouped with African Americans and struggled to gain inclusion into white society, but 19th century Jews were largely considered to be just another sub-group in the US’s majority white population.

It's mostly a semantic argument stemming from the rapidly shifting meaning of "race" over the 20th century.  Hitler thought of Germans as an Aryan race of people whose members could be found across Central and Eastern Europe while ironically, simultaneously murdering hundreds of thousands of the most  Aryan people in Europe- the Roma.  Germans of the 1940s generally thought of Jews and Roma (and French, Spanish, Italians, Russians, Serbs, Czechs, and English) as separate and inferior races.  Modern genetics tell us that the German were entirely wrong about Aryanism or a distinctly German gene pool but the Germans who attacked Europe certainly used explicitly racist rhetoric to justify their many invasions and genocides.

Exactly, the closest race to Aryans are Persians in Iran and some Indians (especially Punjabs).

Hitler thought the aryan race was lost, and hid itself in many races. This is why he was so interested in India, he thought a lot of Indians were aryans

He was trying to replicate the lost Aryan race and thought that Germany had a lot of Aryan blood, but also suspected some escaped to India.  Probably one of the reasons, in India he is so popular to this day that they have named ice-cream shops after him, you'll see a lot of people wearing t shirts with his image openly. He is still very loved in India. His second book was unreleased, but it showed he had a lot of concern that America would win the war, and he wanted to keep them out if it, because they had more Aryans. 

There was a magical attribute of the Aryan bloodline. Where he thought Aryans had a strong will to power and if exercised, it would fuck over anyone who opposed it. He thought that America entering the war would mean there were more Aryan against him than for him. 

Him wanting to create a strong race, my speculation is he cared less about purity than he did giving people a reason higher than themselves to live. Cult leaders have an easier time recruiting by making people feel special "You are aryans" and by giving them a cause to believe in "you will be Nietxche's overman" 

It's easy to be a populat leader when you blow smoke up people's asses 

The ideal Aryan had pale skin, blond hair and blue eyes. Non-Aryans came to be seen as impure and even evil. Hitler believed that Aryan superiority was being threatened particularly by the Jews.

That's the dumbed down version you had gotten in school. The nazi scientists were measuring skulls and feeling around for head bumps and what not to see who was Aryan.  

Here is an article you guys might find interesting, from somebody who Can speak more intelligently on this than I can

Hitler's popularity in india talked about in more detail.here https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/hitlers-hindus-indias-nazi-loving-nationalists-on-the-rise-1.5628532

Cyrus the Great, a great white king and Christian Prophet!

This is true btw, he was Mediterranean.

No, he very much loved the English.

No they were not grouped with African Americans. They were only hated because they were Catholic and perceived as a threat to religious liberty. The US was culturally low church Anglican. But, everyone considered them "white".

From what I know, they believed the ancient North Indians and the Indus River Valley Civilization were whites, and that the Hindu caste system included Aryans at the top. After islamic invasions and mixing with south indians, the race got lost. Whether that's historically accurate, nobody can really tell especially with lost knowledge at the time but sanskrit is an indo-european language so :/

I was referring to contents of Hitler's second book which was unreleased.  I was talking about Americans. The switching of subject matter so close together can be confusing. I forgive you. It was probably my fault for writing in a stream of consciousness anyway

The 2nd book is titled Zweites Buch. The contents of it are widely known, but not so much in popular culture

Was that before or after he killed half a million English, bombed Westminster Abbey and the British Museum and declared England the "Jew of Europe"?

American Indians were also sub-humans to Hitler-  to be enslaved on sight and exterminated in the short term

Hitler frequently cited the American's use of Manifest Destiny to crush Native American nations as a model for the NAZI lebensraum.   Americans had “gunned down the millions of Redskins to a few hundred thousand, and now keep the modest remnant under observation in a cage ...” said Hitler admiringly in 1928.  Ten years in advance, Hitler openly promised to do to Europe what Europeans did to the people who they found living in the Western Hemisphere- maximum genocide.

I stand with Whoopi, white people be crazy 

There is some miscommunication here. Part of what I said was referring to Indians, not native Americans. I will split it with lines so you can see the difference easier. 

Hitler thought the aryans who came from Atlantis found themselves in India. At least some of them found themselves in India. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-58466528

I mentioned that Hitler was very popular in India, perhaps because of this. https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/hitlers-hindus-indias-nazi-loving-nationalists-on-the-rise-1.5628532

You posited a different theory, about the British occupying India and Indians perhaps being sympathetic to Hitler because of that. I think you raise a good point. Perhaps both of us can be correct here and both things are influences.

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After that I changed subjects. I went on a tangent that was very loosely related to that point about Americans in general,  and his theories in that regard mentioned in his 2nd book Zweites Buch. 

Granted, I never read his second book and my understanding is based on an early 2000s history Channel documentary called something catchy like "Hitler's lost book", but they did interview ww2 historians in the episode. 

Just listened to the actual clip, Whoopi was right and she shouldn’t have apologized. It makes sense that a black woman living in 21st century America would think of German Jews and German Christians almost 100 years ago as two different groups of white people. What’s the big deal?

Racism was the driving force for the atrocities. Race isn’t just skin colour, it’s cultural. Nazi’s saw Jews as an out-group to put it mildly. 

Racism is a collective term for a 101 other things that might  lead us to conclude, that someone else is perceivably and therefore unagreeably different.

Basically the analysis of data, that is contrary to our own established database.

So I prefer to define the inappropriate epithet "racism"...... As acquired intolerance based upon perceivable differences.

And contrary to what we might be expected to accept these days, intolerance is always a two way issue.

It's just that those who are/were seen as coming of worse are always remember as the poor victims, and those that are/were successful are remembered as the evil oppressors. 

Unless we are taught tolerance and equality, there is a strong chance that we won't think tolerance and equality.

And the tolerant will suppress the intolerant....Because the tolerant, are not tolerant of the intolerant.

Or similarly..... Because the intolerant tolerant are intolerant of the intolerant who are not tolerant.

Social evolution is a slow process.

I don’t understand the purpose of your reply. Are you just trying to bounce ideas off me? 

I was discussing racism and the holocaust.

What were you discussing?.....Swimming lessons.

I agree.