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@Reece101
I don’t understand the purpose of your reply. Are you just trying to bounce ideas off me?
He is quite literally insane.
Whoopi Goldberg is right about the holocaust
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@Reece101
Racism was the driving force for the atrocities. Race isn’t just skin colour, it’s cultural. Nazi’s saw Jews as an out-group to put it mildly.
Does it really matter? Its the same impulse as what drives contemporary racism and ethnic conflict, which was her entire point. She’s not white, she’s not German, and she didn’t grow up in the 1930s. I understand why a modern day black person would think of it as a problem between two groups of white people is a reasonable belief even if the Nazis themselves thought the Jews were a different “race.”
Interesting look into Americas civic religion. I guess Americans no longer understand that something other than “racism” can be bad. If you think the holocaust (an event in a different country almost 100 years ago) was evil but not “racist” CANCELLED!
Humans are much too diverse to be easily categorized into three or four different “race.” Are Jews white? Are Turks white? Are Khazaks Asian? Because of the stark physical differences between Europeans and Africans and the desire to retain a hierarchy this is the approach generally taken by Americans throughout history. Are Romanians white? Well, they are kind of swarthy…but they sure aren’t black, so white it is.
The early 20th century scientific racists took the opposite approach and obsessively categorized humans into smaller and smaller groups, Aryans, Nordics, Alpines, Mediterraneans, etc.
What Whoopi is being punished for is applying the standard definition of “race” used in 99% of contemporary American discourse to an event that took place almost a century ago in a different country, where the perpetrators took a different view of race. The reasonable standard to set is one of basic decency which she clearly met (in that clip…she’s a piece of work generally speaking lol.) Race is a sacred concept in the American civic religion but apparently no one bothered to write down the rules. Great country we’ve got here.
I cant believe I’m saying this but this is an actual example of the “white supremacy” the left is obsessed with. An ethnic minority has a less nuanced understanding of the differences between sub-sects of the majority group than the majority group does? How shocking. I would imagine she knows more about, say, the differences between blacks in Atlanta and Detroit than I do.
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@thett3
Does it really matter? Its the same impulse as what drives contemporary racism and ethnic conflict, which was her entire point. She’s not white, she’s not German, and she didn’t grow up in the 1930s. I understand why a modern day black person would think of it as a problem between two groups of white people is a reasonable belief even if the Nazis themselves thought the Jews were a different “race.”
I understand why a modern day white person such as yourself would think it’s reasonable for a modern day black person to think certain falsehoods.
Interesting look into Americas civic religion. I guess Americans no longer understand that something other than “racism” can be bad. If you think the holocaust (an event in a different country almost 100 years ago) was evil but not “racist” CANCELLED!
Is this directed at me or just a general concern? I operate in the market place of ideas.
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@Reece101
I understand why a modern day white person such as yourself would think it’s reasonable for a modern day black person to think certain falsehoods.
Wow, this got racist pretty fast. First by your generalization of whites and secondly by labeling black experience "falsehoods" . If you are going to be racist, please leave my thread. What race are you, where you feel comfortable being racist to whites and blacks within the same sentence
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@Incel-chud
Wow, this got racist pretty fast. First by your generalization of whites and secondly by labeling black experience "falsehoods" . If you are going to be racist, please leave my thread. What race are you, where you feel comfortable being racist to whites and blacks within the same sentence
Thett3:
I understand why a modern day black person would think of it as a problem between two groups of white people is a reasonable belief even if the Nazis themselves thought the Jews were a different “race.”
Please don’t cancel me.
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@Reece101
I understand why a modern day white person such as yourself would think it’s reasonable for a modern day black person to think certain falsehoods.
You haven’t explained why it matters. Why should she be expected to have a nuanced understanding of German and Jewish relations in the 1920s-1940s, and be expected to seamlessly apply American discourse to those events without occasionally saying something that comes off as clunky or awkward? Why should any American?
Is this directed at me or just a general concern? I operate in the market place of ideas.
It was a general comment. But if you’re operating in a marketplace of ideas I don’t see the need for you to bring up my race
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@thett3
You haven’t explained why it matters. Why should she be expected to have a nuanced understanding of German and Jewish relations in the 1920s-1940s, and be expected to seamlessly apply American discourse to those events without occasionally saying something that comes off as clunky or awkward? Why should any American?
I’m only speaking for myself when I say this is a learning opportunity. I’m not that invested in this controversy.
It was a general comment. But if you’re operating in a marketplace of ideas I don’t see the need for you to bring up my race
So let’s agree that bringing up your race and black people in general, is irrelevant to the conversation when it comes to falsely held beliefs.
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@Reece101
So let’s agree that bringing up your race and black people in general, is irrelevant to the conversation when it comes to falsely held beliefs.
But “race” isn’t a real concept so there can’t be an objectively “false” way to apply it to something like the Holocaust.
Because it’s not a firmly grounded concept like physics or math peoples experiences and cultures are going to change how they view it. A black person whose family has been on the wrong end of the American history of race (ie, broad inclusive definition of white to contrast with black) is likely to view “race” from that angle, even though the Germans were actually looking at it from a difference angle. So yes, it looking like two different groups of white people to her is a reasonable thing to say. It’s not like she said it was okay for that reason.
Her view is closer to objectively right than the detractors is anyway. If we were to take the genetics of people considered by all to be “white” “black” or “Asian” ashkenazi Jews are clearly closest genetically to the “white” group
I didn't know if it was going to happen, but whoopi goldberg is canceled https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1488742670059114498
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@thett3
But “race” isn’t a real concept so there can’t be an objectively “false” way to apply it to something like the Holocaust.Because it’s not a firmly grounded concept like physics or math peoples experiences and cultures are going to change how they view it.
Just because people conceptualise race/racism differently at any given point in time doesn’t mean you can’t holistically look at it from a historical, scientific, linguistic, etc perspective.
A black person whose family has been on the wrong end of the American history of race (ie, broad inclusive definition of white to contrast with black) is likely to view “race” from that angle, even though the Germans were actually looking at it from a difference angle. So yes, it looking like two different groups of white people to her is a reasonable thing to say. It’s not like she said it was okay for that reason.
I agree. Though you shouldn’t enable ignorance.
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@oromagi
English were germanic peoples, he considered the Government jewish but loved the people
Hitler's goal was to wipe out a number of different people to keep the Germanic races blood pure. He believed in a master race therefore everything he did was based on making things appropriate for that race to succeed. That makes all his actions racist. Whether he was rounding up the infirm, the disabled, the Romani or Jews. Anyone that says otherwise is a N@!# sympathizer. Whoopie's problem is she thinks if anyone else receives any sort of attention regarding racism that her race will be overlooked.
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@thett3
I don't think Whoopi needs to be canceled for that clip,
I'd rather hear and understand her point of view.
Though I 'might disagree with her view.
4:40 in.
Eh, personally I'm not even sure I understand her point,
The way it 'sounds,
Is that she's saying for 'us, and how we interpret the Holocaust, it doesn't need to be about race, but rather inhumanity, that we 'don't act such a way, no matter the group.
But then she confuses me by saying,
"But these are two white groups of people."
The show irritates me, people interrupting one another, not even time enough for someone to speak their mind 'clearly.
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@Incel-chud
Why do you think that I am insane?
Is it because I am older and wiser, and have had sex with women?
LOL.
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@Reece101
I agree. Though you shouldn’t enable ignorance.
It’s not ignorance, she was using an understanding of the word “racism” like it’s used 99.9% of the time in American discourse
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@zedvictor4
No, it's because of the incoherent ramblings that go off topic.
This whole thing is extremely funny on multiple levels
-the conversation was started by a fake controversy about a cartoon mouse
-the conversation is about events that happened almost 100 years ago in a different country
-what she said wasn’t offensive by any reasonable definition and no one can explain how it’s offensive
-it’s an actual example of “white supremacy” (a minority getting punished for being clumsy around the nuances between different sub sects of the majority group)
-the public is now being subjected to a debate about Jewishness that 95% of them have no idea about but people will pretend like they do anyway
-she’s a piece of shit who would have no mercy to someone who said something clumsy about black people
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@Reece101
Just because people conceptualise race/racism differently at any given point in time doesn’t mean you can’t holistically look at it from a historical, scientific, linguistic, etc perspective.
To be fair a lot of those perspectives contradict each other, nonetheless the only one that’s relevant is the truth and truth be told a common denominator between Hitler and the Jews he killed is there both white so calling the holocaust racist from Whoopi’s perspective is incorrect perhaps she should’ve offered a more specific term rather than the vague one she used since getting the narrative right is the goal, maybe she would’ve gotten less heat if she called it for EXACTLY what it is, antisemitism.
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@Incel-chud
You only think that they go off topic , because you don't know how to analyse my style of data output.
Rather than just say....This, so that because.
I like to add a bit of poetic intrigue, satire and metaphor.
It cums with age and sexual experience.
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@thett3
she’s a piece of shit who would have no mercy to someone who said something clumsy about black people
Hopefully she learned her lesson, but I doubt it
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@zedvictor4
I like to add a bit of poetic intrigue, satire and metaphor.
I 100% believe, that is what you think you are doing.
@Tarik
Semitism is a misnomer.
As not all Semites are Jews,
And not all Jews are Semites.
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@Incel-chud
Obviously I think it.
Are you saying that you don't think?
Thinking describes the whole process of internal data manipulation.
And one either believes, or doesn't believe,
Or is perhaps apathetic.
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@Tarik
To be fair a lot of those perspectives contradict each other, nonetheless the only one that’s relevant is the truth and truth be told a common denominator between Hitler and the Jews he killed is there both white so calling the holocaust racist from Whoopi’s perspective is incorrect perhaps she should’ve offered a more specific term rather than the vague one she used since getting the narrative right is the goal, maybe she would’ve gotten less heat if she called it for EXACTLY what it is, antisemitism.
1. The perspectives contradict how?
2. doesn’t it make perfect sense to say antisemitism falls under racism?
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@thett3
It’s not ignorance, she was using an understanding of the word “racism” like it’s used 99.9% of the time in American discourse
So most people don’t believe antisemitism is racist?
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@Reece101
So most people don’t believe antisemitism is racist?
They probably don’t think about it at all, but since it has its own word instead of being called racism they would probably think of it as anti semitism and not racism
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@thett3
They probably don’t think about it at all, but since it has its own word instead of being called racism they would probably think of it as anti semitism and not racism
Yeah you’re only telling me the extent to which people are ignorant.
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@Reece101
Yeah you’re only telling me the extent to which people are ignorant.
Unfortunately no matter how you feel about it words are much more flexible things than objective concepts like math or logic. If the vast vast majority of people think of a certain word in an “ignorant” way eventually that just becomes the definition. It’s a really ridiculous controversy in my opinion
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@thett3
Unfortunately no matter how you feel about it words are much more flexible things than objective concepts like math or logic. If the vast vast majority of people think of a certain word in an “ignorant” way eventually that just becomes the definition. It’s a really ridiculous controversy in my opinion
Alright, tell me how antisemitism isn’t racism.