Are homosexual natures created by nurture, nature, or God?

Author: GnosticChristianBishop

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#91
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@Tradesecret
Adulthood and moral maturity happened.

I don't think I know any but one objective moral tenet, so of course morals are mostly all subjective.

"I haven't seen a genocidal god,"

You have not read of the Jesus/ Yahweh genocidal prick?
 
Regards
DL
#92
Tradesecret
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@GnosticChristianBishop
Adulthood and moral maturity happened.
So are you suggesting that has happened to you? Or are you being metaphorical about the world and its knowledge?  A pity Russia, America and China and indeed the entire world has missed this maturation? But you on the other hand -? Wow! A standout in anyone's book. 

I don't think I know any but one objective moral tenet, so of course morals are mostly all subjective.
You do realize don't you, that you have now completely refuted all of your arguments?  Why is genocide morally wrong? Obviously it is only subjectively not very nice - certainly not always wrong in an objective sense.  You can't admit it is not subjectively possible to be right in the right circumstances. Once you admit to this logical inconsistency - nothing else you say matters. It all comes down to a subjective opinion.  This culture or the next carries the day. It basically means - Who cares? 

I on the other hand do believe in absolute morals.  Mind you, I am not reduced to only moral absolutes since I am a covenantalist. I can believe in both - absolute and subjective - it's a question of epistemology. This is the wonderful thing about believing in the Trinity. The one and the many. The absolute and the personal. In fact - it is only the Christian and the ancient Jew - not the modern Jew - who is able to hold to a consistent epistemology in this sense. 

I recall at college the difficulty that many lecturers had - trying to balance - the rights of the individual over the many. They could not do it. Similarly in economics. They all could hold either to a market system or to a command system but the mixed economy drove them mad. Their out - was to say it is pragmatic. You will notice of course this is not epistemology but something else. 

It flows into every field of life. Law, morals or philosophy, economics, theology, politics, sociology, science,  education. It is the eternal fight between ONE GOD and the many. The fight between the individual and the many.  It is interestingly the fruit of the two cults at the edges of Christianity, the JW and the Mormons. One focuses on the ONE and the other on the MANY. It is the focal point of law - it is my right to own this gun v it is our right to protect ourselves from gun owners. It is my right to kill this baby v it is our right to make sure that babies have rights. 

Friend, you have stumbled into a magnificent discussion. Into a beautiful and rarified area where only the true giants of the world - even know it exists - let alone know how to discuss it. What say you? Where do you stand? Why do you stand there? How do you justify such things in your own mind? 
 

"I haven't seen a genocidal god,"

You have not read of the Jesus/ Yahweh genocidal prick?
Hmmm. As I said you stumbled - it was not intentional.  Your subjective understanding of God is obviously different to mine. and given your confession that you only hold a subjective view - your interpretation holds no help to me - since I hold to an absolute moral position on God.  
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#93
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@Tradesecret

Let me know when you want to chat with me, not at me, and when you stop adoring a genocidal prick of a God.

Regards
DL
#94
Stephen
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@GnosticChristianBishop
Let me know when you want to chat with me, not at me, and when you stop adoring a genocidal prick of a God.



Not to mention, adoring his narcissistic self.

#95
Tradesecret
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@GnosticChristianBishop
Let me know when you want to chat with me, not at me, and when you stop adoring a genocidal prick of a God.
Ah you want me to stop emulating you. I can do that.   

If you want to me to chat with you - then please stop being so antagonistic. Calling my God genocidal is intentionally trying to rile me.  

What is good for the goose is the same for the gander. 
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#96
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@Tradesecret
Some deny that Noah's flood, myth or not, that it was genocide.

Some do not see Armageddon or the death of hells residence into the lake of fire as genocide either.

Those people are stupidly immoral.

The intelligent and moral will think like these.


Regards
DL
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#97
GnosticChristianBishop
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@Tradesecret
""If you want to me to chat with you - then please stop being so antagonistic. Calling my God genocidal is intentionally trying to rile me. ""

If female, you would think that being decreed to be of less value than a man, would suffice. No ?

Good Christ; what if you are gay?

Regards
DL

#98
Polytheist-Witch
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@Tradesecret
You should really stop feeding the trolls.
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#99
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Say losers and poor thinkers.

Ass holes abound.

Regards
DL
#100
Tradesecret
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@GnosticChristianBishop
Some deny that Noah's flood, myth or not, that it was genocide.
And some intentionally and stupidly take the exact opposite view of what occurred? 

Which is always an interesting perspective when they don't believe in objective morals. And won't give an example of when genocide is subjectively ok. 


Some do not see Armageddon or the death of hells residence into the lake of fire as genocide either.
Some complain that God never punishes the evil and lets them get off scot free - but then get all teary eyed because God sets a date for it to happen. 



Those people are stupidly immoral.

The intelligent and moral will think like these.
Yes, people who say one thing and contradict themselves with every ounce of their bodies are stupidly immoral. 

The intelligent tend to wait, understand, and then decide whether what they are going to say is really putting a foot into their mouth or not - and then shut up.  Others just say whatever comes to mind - no matter how silly it looks or sounds or how inconsistent it it. 
#101
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@GnosticChristianBishop
""If you want to me to chat with you - then please stop being so antagonistic. Calling my God genocidal is intentionally trying to rile me. ""

If female, you would think that being decreed to be of less value than a man, would suffice. No ?

Good Christ; what if you are gay?

the problem dear GCB is that you have confessed you are a subjective moralist.  This means you cannot in good conscience actually condemn anyone else - for taking a different moral position. It also means that you cannot deny that genocide might actually have a place or misogyny or even homosexuality.  While for you in your little narrow minded world you might find it distasteful - you cannot deny with any absolute confidence that there are not proper places that such moralist it appropriate and the wiser and better thing.  That dear GCB is the entire rub of your default morality. 

In any event, I have indicated that God in the Bible does not discriminate on the basis of sexuality or sex.  Yes, God opposes sin. And will judge sin.  As well he should.  Since he is holy.  The fact that you actually think that evil ought to prevail is sadly pathetic.  
#102
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@Polytheist-Witch
You should really stop feeding the trolls.
Agreed. But they are so hungry for any conversation it is difficult to say no.  It must be hard being so lonely in your ideas.  Not you Poly, the trolls.

Thanks for your wisdom. 
#103
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@Tradesecret
I only say it because at this point you're the only one still interacting with them and they're getting away with a lot because of it. And getting away with it with you is bleeding over into other people. 
#104
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@Polytheist-Witch
 only say it because at this point you're the only one still interacting with them and they're getting away with a lot because of it. And getting away with it with you is bleeding over into other people. 
Fair Call.

I will pull my head in. Thanks for the clarification and for being so brutally honest. 

122 days later

#105
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I think Homosexuality is a mental disorder. A problem with in the brain itself. Like any other non debilitating mental disorder.  No need to debate me on it, that is what I think. It is abnormal behavior compared to the vast majority in nature in all species.

#106
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@sadolite
Homosexuality is an evolved socio-psychological condition, relative to procreational satisfaction within a recreational format.

So not so much a disorder, but rather an evolved condition.

So sort of a nurtured nature.
#107
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@sadolite
I think Homosexuality is a mental disorder. A problem with in the brain itself. Like any other non debilitating mental disorder.  No need to debate me on it, that is what I think. It is abnormal behavior compared to the vast majority in nature in all species.
Are there studies that support that homosexuality is a mental disorder or are you a psychologist? I'm not debating you. Just interested in how you formed your conclusion that homosexuality is abnormal. 

For the record, I don't think homosexuality is a mental disorder.  Yet I would agree that using ordinary statistical analysis, homosexuality does fall outside of the norms of heterosexuality. Not in type of its essence but in terms of quantity only.   
#108
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@zedvictor4
Homosexuality is an evolved socio-psychological condition, relative to procreational satisfaction within a recreational format.

So not so much a disorder, but rather an evolved condition.

So sort of a nurtured nature.

I assume that you have the studies to back that up. Please link to them so that I can read it as well. 

I would disagree that it is an evolved condition.  I reckon that almost since the beginning of humanity that homosexuality has been a thing. Not evolved - but with a very long history.  

I am bemused by the interesting label - nurtured nature.  It's a little bit like Bob Hope's  bet each way.  Are you old enough to know who Bob Hope is?
#109
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@Tradesecret
Yep, I'm well old enough to remember Bob Hope.

And nurtured nature , simply is another way of saying species evolution with particular regard to the evolution of mentality and intellect.

And for sure, the species soon learned that sex was fun and that temporary  sexual satisfaction could be achieved in all sorts of ways.
#110
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Yukio Mishima's book Confessions of a Mask is a sparkling case study which shows a very reasoned homosexuality. I think the answer is very obviously nurture, honestly, though there's genes in everything. The more older brothers a man has, the more likely he is to be gay. Either that's some mechanism to reduce competition, something like oro is going after, or the younger brothers have looked up to and depended on men all their lives and would have that in their romantic relationships also. The latter makes way more, easier sense. Either way, doesn't matter. There is no choice.
#111
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@badger
Romance is a nice fluffy concept, that ultimately boils down to procreational sex drive.

We like to think that we are more than a pre-programmed animal.
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#112
GnosticChristianBishop
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@Tradesecret
Opinion without argument, and you God is a genocidal prick, be you want to admit it or not.

Moral people will agree.

Regards
DL
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#113
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@sadolite
If I accept that it is a brain disorder, why are the religious hating so many mentally sick people?

That is really immoral and stupid. Right?

Regards
DL
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#114
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@zedvictor4
You indicate gayness is a nurtured condition.

Are you saying gayness is something that a parent can train their children to be?

Why would a parent or anyone else want to evolve a straight person into a gay one?

Regards
DL
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#115
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@badger
Hmm.

You see a nurtured condition, and yet say that the one being conditioned has no choice but to have the indoctrination stick.

I can't make sense of what you think.

Regards
DL
#116
FLRW
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@GnosticChristianBishop

Very few species don't engage in homosexual behaviour. There are thousands of documented cases in almost every species known to man.
#117
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@GnosticChristianBishop
It is not a debilitating disorder. It does not affect critical thinking. I am prone to many behaviors that are self destructive but I also have the ability to recognize that and make efforts to not engage in those behaviors. Willful self destruction is what it is "A sin" You can argue that homosexual relationships and homosexual behavior is no different than heterosexual relationships and behavior all day long but you would be lying. Outliers  don't count, they are not representative of either.
#118
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@FLRW
What you would call homosexual behavior in animals is a show of dominance over another animal. It has nothing to do with a humans definition or perception of what homosexuality is. 
#119
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@GnosticChristianBishop
Nope.

I suggested that socio-psychological trends evolve over time.....Which I referred to as nurtured nature. (See how you deliberately misconstrued my comment)


Though given the right conditions a child could be conditioned to accept anything as normality. (Why would we?......Good question....Why do some societies deliberately indoctrinate kids with religious non-sense? )


Recreational sex is simply based upon procreational sex drive. The end result of which is temporary satisfaction rather than conception.

And these days old social ethics and morality has less influence on how humans  achieve either outcome.

As a species we have slowly modified data transfer between generations. Removing the necessity for the old baggage of same sex marriage at 21 and 2.4 kids.

Now we have the concept of "gayness"....Which as it ever was, is simply one way of achieving sexual satisfaction.

Settling down with ones same sex partner in a nice house with a pedigree pooch and enjoying a vegan diet cooked in ones designer kitchen, is just a parody of old style social expectations.

And let's be clear....I'm not the slightest bit interested in what other people get up to as long as they do it peaceably.

I'm simply interested in being able to  discuss things as I see them.
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#120
GnosticChristianBishop
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@FLRW
This indicates that the condition is quite natural.

Did you note that the lower animals seem to be above man on this issue.

We are a really obtuse and stupid species.

Regards
DL