Skeptical Theism

Author: Solaris1

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#1
Solaris1
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The problem of evil is an argument against the existence of a God. Therefore, it sets out to prove a God does not exist.

Skeptical theism, as a response to the problem of evil, states that we cannot see God's intentions and therefore cannot claim the evil in the world disproves God. At the very most, we may be agnostic towards the idea that God has good justifications for allowing evil.




#2
RationalMadman
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@Solaris1
Truly skeptical theism says that god is sociopathic, this 'good god' trope is futile to uphold.
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@RationalMadman
Not from my experience of it. [1]We cannot tell whether God is sociopathic or good, it is out of our domain of understanding. I could just parody your argument against you, and say you have no reason to believe God isn't good.


[1] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/skeptical-theism/ 



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@Solaris1
I have plenty of reasoning that God isn't good but you've probably heard it all before from a typical atheistic stance as they're solid, well-known arguments related to the problem of evil and problem of undue deaths etc.
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FLRW
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@Solaris1

A much simpler explanation for evil is that there is no God to prevent it.
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When you read myths across a variety of faiths the gods are not always good. Only the Abrahamic god lacks evil. Even in Hinduism where the godhead can take many forms there are gods of destruction and renewal. 
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Well, I never had a debate specifically on the problem of evil, but I am pretty sure that we can just imagine that everything God does are good no matter what we think about it.

Like when my mom sent me to a camp for the first time and I was crying all the time before the experience and that was actually good? Yeah like that, but on a much larger scale.
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Don't get me wrong, I don't actually believe in an actual deity, but the problem of evil isn't sufficient evidence that God doesn't exist. It just disproves a god that has perfectly aligned morals with the general populous of humans on Earth.
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@Solaris1
The problem of evil is an argument against the existence of a God. Therefore, it sets out to prove a God does not exist.
The idea of this argument is not to prove the non existence of god, it’s proponents overwhelmingly understand that that could never be proven.

What the argument does is refute the claim of god’s existence, assuming that Gods goodness is being asserted as a quality. And it certainly does just that. There is no logical way to square God being all powerful, all good or even anything remotely resembling good, and all of the stuff in the Bible.

The point is that in the end were left with one of two logical possibilities; God does not exist, or God is a moral monster. The idea that God is still good somehow but we just can’t see it is absurd. You’re free to adopt that position all you want, but it is at that point where you must admit that your position is not based in reason.
#10
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Psalm 145:9

The LORD is good to all; he has compassion on all he has made.
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@Solaris1
I'd think myself, that skeptical theism is a reasonable outlook,
One at 'least as old as Job.
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Devastated parents Marlene Simao and David Ribeiro were unaware their son Rodrigo had several facial birth defects, despite obstetrician Artur Carvalho performing multiple ultrasound scans.
It was only when baby Rodrigo was born that Marlene and David discovered his disability, which had caused his face to develop without eyes, a nose and part of his skull, the BBC reports.


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#13
Solaris1
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@RationalMadman
The point is that we cannot know the mind of God. It's quite literally logical impossible. 

Yes I've heard the arguments, and even if a fawn dies in a forest fire, that doesn't mean that there is unnecessary evil, we don't understand everything about morality, if we did, we wouldn't see moral progress.
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@Double_R
Calling something absurd doesn't really make it that way. Are you saying we can know the mind of a literal God?, If so, you must be omniscient by definition.

Also, not out here to defend the bible, for the record, I'm not a Christian, don't know why you would assume I'm one. 

The point is that in the end were left with one of two logical possibilities; God does not exist, or God is a moral monster.
To me, this seems to not have been justified. 
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@FLRW
Correct, but this claim states that we have no positive evidence against God. Whether God exists is another question. I'm still not sure whether anything someone would call God exists. 
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@Solaris1
The point is that we cannot know the mind of God. It's quite literally logical impossible. 

Yes I've heard the arguments, and even if a fawn dies in a forest fire, that doesn't mean that there is unnecessary evil, we don't understand everything about morality, if we did, we wouldn't see moral progress.
Actually, your side of the argument is the irrational one. You are saying we cannot diagnose and judge somebody based on their behaviour.
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@RationalMadman
Firstly, I like to say I believe in rational disagreement, and I never called you irrational.


Secondly, you bring up a point of someone's behavior. Here's an analogy: you are a new chess player, and a Grand Master makes a move you think is bad. Do you conclude that he made a bad move?
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@Solaris1
God is not competing with us, so the chess analogy doesn't quite work.
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@Solaris1
Why pray for something which makes no sense? If the only way to answer the PoE is to say "I don't know", why not accept the conclusion? 
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@RationalMadman
All analogies brake down at some point. But can you answer the question. 

(I myself would say that probably no, because the intelligence gap is so big, I don't think I could actually criticize the Grand Master)
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@Bones
I don't seem to follow. Skeptical Theism is considered a legitimate response in the philosophy of religion see here:

Sure philosophers have problems with it, but none of them are the ones brought up on this forum.

Can you elaborate a bit?
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@Solaris1
The problem of evil is an argument against the existence of a God. Therefore, it sets out to prove a God does not exist.

Skeptical theism, as a response to the problem of evil, states that we cannot see God's intentions and therefore cannot claim the evil in the world disproves God. At the very most, we may be agnostic towards the idea that God has good justifications for allowing evil.
In other words the road to hell is paved with good intentions?
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@Reece101
I'm saying that since there's a ridiculous intelligence gap between us and God we logical cannot criticize him. It would be like a new chess player telling a Grand Master that he made a bad move.

That saying says that evil things are sometimes done for good reasons which is not exactly what I'm getting at. My point is that we have no idea whether God has good justications for his actions, we have to be indifferent about whether he does.  
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@Solaris1
I am willing to bet with you that god just made us for entertainment and this is basically a series on TV for him/her/it. I will bet with you the entire afterlife of us, since that's a given bet anyway. If I am right, however, there's no heaven anyway in the reality I see.
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@Solaris1
I’ll have you know my dragon is a Grand Master too
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@Solaris1
Are you saying we can know the mind of a literal God?
No, I’m saying that if one has to appeal to God’s omniscience then their argument is clearly not valid.

Again, I’m not weighing in on the actual question of God’s existence, that’s what most theists do not seem to understand. This is about logic. 1+1+1 does not equal 4.

If God is all powerful, then he controls everything including his own circumstances, thus he could never be put in a situation where he had to do anything. So if he for example created a literal place of torment and torture (hell), then he did that by choice because that is what he desired.

But no being that is anything recognizable as good would ever think to torture its own creations for all eternity for the crime of disobeying them or not believing they exist.

This is why, given the contents of the Bible, one of those two options must be true. He either desired these things making him a moral monster, or he did not and they happened anyway, making him impotent. There’s no third option except cognitive dissonance.
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@Solaris1
The problem of evil is only an argument against the version of god that is all-good, all-powerful, and all-knowing. The version you present in the OP says that we cannot know god's intentions, therefore we cannot know that version of god is all-good. Therefore the problem of evil is from the start not even trying to address the version of god that you are referring to.
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@Solaris1
Skeptical Theism can be used to justify any God. Take Thanos as an example. Is there any evidence for him? No, but perhaps our cognitive limitations prohibit us from finding any. 
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@Bones
Correct. We would need evidence for a God. What I'm also saying is that the problem of evil wouldn't be a good argument against a Deistic God. 
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@Double_R
No, I’m saying that if one has to appeal to God’s omniscience then their argument is clearly not valid.
Can you explain why, it seems you have asserted this. 

Also, just so you know (again) I'm not defending the Bible nor an idea of hell.