Religious people: Is it your duty to convince others that your god is real, and if yes, WHY?

Author: Intelligence_06

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#1
Intelligence_06
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Honestly, both in DDO and in DART, a clog of debates such as "god exists" has been common enough that upon seeing it makes me snort.

Atheists can live their lives without, say, a god, and they would live fine. So would religious people praying to their god every day and living fine.

Why do these clashes exist and are as common as they are right now? Why are so many topics of debates and forums centred upon whether god exists or not?

Is it perhaps a duty in religion, or in some parts of a religious groups, to convince others that your god is real?

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#2
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And if you believe in buddhism, hinduism, Taoism, or any other sets of beliefs that do not condemn others for believing in other gods in other religions, you can leave without answering.
#3
zedvictor4
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@Intelligence_06
I would love to see you snort.

And the reason why there are so many religious discussions, is because it is the most controversial topic.

Topics such as abortion, sexuality and politics vie for second place.

Though such secondary topics can easily be woven into religious discussion.

For example:

Does a GOD exist and does it condone abortion?

Does it condone homosexuality and other sexual variations,

And is it Republican or Democrat or Chinese?
#4
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Everyone is correct hear in the religious forum. 

Abortion is crazy to weigh up hey.
And death penalty.
#5
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I have a sneaky feeling that religious people dont mind the idea that others will spend eternity in hell. 

They will say they tried. 

The JW where good at trying to get their point across.  
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Polytheist-Witch
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@Intelligence_06
I'm really sick of atheists deciding what theists are welcome here and which ones are not. You're the intruder, not the theists.
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@Polytheist-Witch
I am asking a question. This is not meant to offend anyone.
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@zedvictor4
Does a GOD exist and does it condone abortion?
Yes, letting his only son die in agony on a cross shows that he is pro-abortion if there is a bigger reason for it.
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@Intelligence_06
Then you told me I couldn't respond. I'm sick of you people coming in here and telling theists to shut up. 
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@Polytheist-Witch
I said "can" not must.

#11
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@Intelligence_06
Some I suppose,
My family just had faith in a just God,
And a different idea of Hell,
Still 'some people are. . .

As for 'why there are God debates,

I think some people are unsure of the truth, and wish to discuss the topic with others.
That they may air out their own thoughts, and see the thoughts of others.
Falling on either side of the fence.

Some people are Theists, who for whatever reason, make it their hobby/crusade, to convince others.
Perhaps they think their way of life is 'true.
Perhaps they think their way of life is 'good in practice.
Perhaps they want the community they live in to share their values.
Perhaps they read in their religions writings, that one 'ought speak of their religion to others.
Perhaps they think people will go to Hell if they 'don't believe. (NOT EVERYONE THINKS THAT WAY)

Some people are Anti-Theists, and have made it their hobby/crusade, to denounce and defame religion.
Perhaps they think their way of life is 'true.
Perhaps they think their way of life is 'good in practice.
Perhaps they want the community they live in to share their values.
Perhaps they read in their writings, that one 'ought speak of their Anti-Theism to others.
Perhaps they were offended or injured by religion, and now bear a grudge.

. . .
Also to speak of 'real life converting, some people make money off it, Theism, Atheism.

#12
Polytheist-Witch
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There's a  choice to discuss theism. You don't have to do it here and you don't have to do it with other human beings, you just get up and walk away from them. According to the atheist here not a single person they know ever talks about theism in "real life" so I don't know where all this talk about theism comes from because according to everybody it only happens here and somehow they're all forced to be here to talk about it.
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I just cant get my head around believing in a god thing having something to do with being in a religious group.

WHAT COME FIRST. 
Believing in a god thing 
Orrrrrr
Joining / being in a religious  group. 

Imagine these two events happening in like the same year. 


Picture believing in a God thing then realizing that it is one of the gods that did a book. (  What a relief  ) 

NO ONE.  belives in gods that didnt do a book book. 
NO ONE. BELIEVES that the koran is the one holy book and Christianity is the correct religious ummmmm " group " 

If i was christian i would sit here talking about how AWSOME god is doing a book for us. 
The bible is proof god exists. 
FULL STOP

NO ONE ever talks about how great there god was to do a book for all of us. 

#14
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Conduct numerous scientific experiments, where you isolate some communities of humans,
And have the adults never state an opinion on the question,
Where did we come from?
'Or state that they've simply 'been here so long as memory goes.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
I have a sneaky feeling that religious people dont mind the idea that others will spend eternity in hell. 

This isn't true. Christians that believe in hell, are often in deep regret over not doing a good enough job trying to save a loved ones soul. It can give you crushing guilt to know you could save a life, but didn't because you were afraid sharing your religion would hurt a friendship.


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@Polytheist-Witch
I'm really sick of atheists deciding what theists are welcome here and which ones are not. You're the intruder, not the theists.
This is actually true. I always felt like the more general religious arguments like "Is God real" belongs in the philosophy section. As do arguments like the problem of evil, kalam cosmological argument, modal ontological argument, duality etc. 
#17
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@ POLYTHEIST-WITCH

What's your problem Poly.

You're currently displaying very discriminatory and isolationist tendencies.

On a discussion website one should be able to discuss openly and tolerantly, with anyone from anywhere.

Just as Intel was doing.

Why do you feel that Intel's question was a personal attack against you?
#18
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@Intelligence_06
Is it perhaps a duty in religion, or in some parts of a religious groups, to convince others that your god is real?
This is an interesting question.  And not really answerable with a yes or no. 

For instance I hold to a position - presuppositional view. This means that I take the view that everyone believes in God.   There are those who who deny it - but I would suggest that they hold the truth down because the truth is to unpalatable for them to believe. 

Others hold to an evidentialist view.  They say people need to be able to be persuaded that God exists prior to believing - erst otherwise they won't believe. 

A third view suggests that knowing God is a matter of faith - and therefore is unable to be proved.  In fact attempting to prove God exists or even doing so - actually disproves the existence of God.  Bizarre. But some people hold to this. 

A fourth view suggests that it is impossible to prove whether or not God exists - since God is otherworldly.  

a fifth view would say there is no god - therefore it is unprovable.  

In Conclusion my position - presuppositional or axiomatic is that it is impossible to prove that the God of the Bible exists.  Interestingly, I do think it is possible to prove a god exists. Which god of course is another question. I suggest that the only way it is possible to prove God exists in that manner is by way of logic or reason. It is not possible to do by experience. Yet reason and logic can and do get us to that point. 
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@Tradesecret
Belief is not the same as internal data storage.

You are as aware of atheism as I am of theism.

So on this basis I can similarly say, that everyone doesn't believe in GOD.


Though I would not be so arrogant as to say GOD.

But rather, A GOD principle.

Though to be fair, in conclusion you do repent for this sin.


And a sixth view might say that there might or might not be a GOD principle, but there is currently no way of knowing.

And a seventh view might say that GOD is a cheese and pickle sandwich in a motorway service station.

And so on.


Such are the variable possibilities of the unknown.


#20
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 Christianity (31.2%)
  Islam (24.1%)
  No religion (16%)
  Hinduism (15.1%)
  Buddhism (6.9%)
  Folk religions (5.7%)
  Other religions (0.5%)
  Sikhism (0.3%)
  Judaism (0.2%)

Of the above religions how many recruit or witness to gain conversions? The top three and maybe the Hare Krishna sect of Hinduism. And how many recruit in Islam for Allah and not political reasons? 
#21
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Here is an interesting comparison from Poly's chart. 16% have no religion. Also, 16% of the population have an IQ over 115.
#22
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@zedvictor4
Belief is not the same as internal data storage.
Who says so? They are not mutually exclusive are they? 

You are as aware of atheism as I am of theism.
I am certainly aware of the concept of atheism.  Yet I have never met a consistent one, even when I was one. I was atheistic out of brainwashing. 

So on this basis I can similarly say, that everyone doesn't believe in GOD.
What basis is that again?  That belief is not the same as an internal storage system????? Again - you need to give that some meat. 

Though I would not be so arrogant as to say GOD.

But rather, A GOD principle.
Given your concept of atheism that seems fair.  


Though to be fair, in conclusion you do repent for this sin.

LOL! I am not sure that I agree.  I certainly indicated that proving God exists is one thing - but proving the God of the bible is another thing altogether.  


And a sixth view might say that there might or might not be a GOD principle, but there is currently no way of knowing.
Yet that 6th view is easily debunked, isn't?   How could one say there is no way of knowing - whether a God principle exists or not - without knowing about a god principle in the first place.  The premise MUST be - the one thing I know about the God principle is - I can not know and that my friend is a self contradictory statement which actually proves logically the opposite.  But shhh - don't tell anyone.  

And a seventh view might say that GOD is a cheese and pickle sandwich in a motorway service station.
Well - some people become quite creative after having some bad pizza and cheap wine.  Glad to see you are no different. Basically you are saying - there is no god. and that people who do believe in God - have no more reason to believe God is good than God is a bit of cheese and pickle.  Very patronizing and ignorant really. 



And so on.


Such are the variable possibilities of the unknown.

The problem is - Christians don't say God is unknown.  Or even unknowable.  We do say God chooses to reveal himself and make himself known in a personal way to his people. Yet we also say that God has made himself known in the universe around  us.  Either the world formed itself out of pure dumb luck and chance - or it was designed.  Statistically speaking - scientifically speaking - the former position is irrational and unscientific. At least the notion of a designed universe is scientifically satisfying - for most - except the part about a divine person doing it. 

Evolutionists throw science away - they ask people to believe in blind faith - and to put their brains on hold.   Evolution is unscientific. It is a pseudo science.  



#23
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Top 10 Countries with the Highest Percentage of Atheists - WIN-Gallup 2017:
  • China - 91%
  • Japan - 87%
  • Sweden - 78%
  • Czech Republic - 76%
  • United Kingdom - 73%
  • Belgium - 72%
  • Estonia - 72%
  • Norway - 70%

#24
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@Tradesecret
Christians don't say God is unknown.
Christians can say anything the want to, if they possess the relative data.


Though I said GOD principle, rather than God,

As in a possible but unknown purpose,

And not as in a floaty about bloke of relatively recent, Middle Eastern folk tales.
#25
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Top 10 Smartest Countries by IQ - Ulster Institute 2019:*
  1. Japan - 106.49
  2. Taiwan - 106.47
  3. Singapore - 105.89
  4. Hong Kong (China) - 105.37
  5. China - 104.10
  6. South Korea - 102.35
  7. Belarus - 101.60
  8. Finland - 101.20
  9. Liechtenstein - 101.07
  10. Netherlands & Germany (tie) - 100.74

#26
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@Intelligence_06
"Is it perhaps a duty in religion, or in some parts of a religious groups, to convince others that your god is real?"

It is indeed a duty and a part of my Gnostic Christian ideology.

If one thinks he has the best God and laws  or rules to live life by, I think one would be duty bound to let others know.

Imagine if it were otherwise.

We would still be living in trees and caves because the better ideas went unspoken.

Regards
DL



205 days later

#27
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@Intelligence_06
Religious people: Is it your duty to convince others that your god is real, and if yes, WHY?

Honestly, both in DDO and in DART, a clog of debates such as "god exists" has been common enough that upon seeing it makes me snort.

Atheists can live their lives without, say, a god, and they would live fine. So would religious people praying to their god every day and living fine.

Why do these clashes exist and are as common as they are right now? Why are so many topics of debates and forums centred upon whether god exists or not?

Is it perhaps a duty in religion, or in some parts of a religious groups, to convince others that your god is real?
A lesson from History. The Jews were not very successful at convincing its neighbours their Abrahamic God was real.
As a result the Jews were exiled from their homeland by Egyptians, the Babylonians, the Medians, the Greeks, and now under Western rule (Holocaust).

Now compare that to the Romans turning the Roman Catholic Church into a universal religion by convincing its believers Jesus was real. Today there are some 2 billion Christians in the world.

Similarly the Prophet Mohammad convince the Arabs his God was real. Today there are  some 1.9 billion Muslims in the world.