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@Tarik
So you keep saying, but I simply do not agree. Now it is obvious you have no interest in supporting your "fear off hell" superstition so its best we leave it there.
Why Is Religion so Important To The Believer ?
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@Stephen
So you keep saying, but I simply do not agree.
Semantics is not predicated on your agreement of it
See synonyms for definition #7.
Now it is obvious you have no interest in supporting your "fear off hell" superstition so its best we leave it there.
Whether or not it’s a superstition is besides the point, fact of the matter is the believer believes in it hence why it’s important to them period.
@Tarik
One could be interested but not care.
It's all data management.
With the possibility of further mental or even physical application, or no further application.
Depends upon whether we are interested enough to care.
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@Tarik
Now it is obvious you have no interest in supporting your "fear off hell" superstition so its best we leave it there.Whether or not it’s a superstition is besides the point, fact of the matter is the believer believes in it hence why it’s important to them period.
Ok. So you are saying that religion is important to the believer because of an irrational, unfounded superstitious "fear of hell". I can accept that.
Now tell me, where does this irrational, unfounded superstitious "fear of hell" originate. Do you know?
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@Tarik
The only interest is spouting hate at theists. It's what makes them special in their book.
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@Stephen
Ok. So you are saying that religion is important to the believer because of an irrational, unfounded superstitious "fear of hell". I can accept that.
How do you know the fear is irrational, unfounded, and superstitious?
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@Tarik
Ok. So you are saying that religion is important to the believer because of an irrational, unfounded superstitious "fear of hell". I can accept that.How do you know the fear is irrational, unfounded, and superstitious?
Well are you about to rationalise this "fear of hell" and tell us its origins for us?
I don't think you are. I have said that it's a reasonable suggestion if you or they can prove there is such a place as "hell". Can you? Because you haven't offered anything "valid" that supports your own suggestion.
So off you trot, you are just arguing for arguments sake.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Actually it's: The only interest is spouting logic at theists. It's what makes them special in their book.
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@Stephen
I have said that it's a reasonable suggestion if you or they can prove there is such a place as "hell".
And how do you know that someone hasn’t?
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@Polytheist-Witch
Which book Poly?
The beauty of atheism, is that one doesn't need to write fantasy stories.
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@Polytheist-Witch
The only interest is spouting hate at theists.
Nope.
you believe aliens created everything
Nope:
Stephen wrote: Well if you have ever looked into the ancient phenomena, you would find immediately that ALL religions speak of their so called "gods" coming from the sky. So I think they may "validate" each others religious beliefs of the origins of their "gods" .Polytheist-Witch, wrote: That is not true at all. In the Norse religion they come from a planet. #204
This would make them alien to Earth.
I believe the gods are beings who have evolved on their own worlds. #16
Now is all you have to do is confirm how far back do your own or these "Norse " alien gods go. Are they ancient , medieval or modern?
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@Stephen
Is religion simply a crutch for the lost and lonely wishing for a sense of belonging?Does it give them strength that they believe they otherwise wouldn't have?Is it a social support structure that they cannot find elsewhere?Why is religion so important to the believer ?
I distinguish religion per se from Christianity. Yep, Christianity is a religion but it's not in the same form or kind as others. Its mark of distinguishment is freedom. Oh and the truth of course. (no blush necessary)
Nevertheless, while unthinking and uneducated people often accuse Christianity of being a crutch, they actually miss the entire point. I don't think of it as a crutch - rather as a life support. A crutch is simply the wrong analogy. A crutch assumes we can do quite well by ourselves - with a bit of help from time to time. Christianity actually says - don't be so stupid. You need Christ in order to live. Without him - your life has no objective meaning.
As for a sense of belonging. Humans crave relationships. If not religion, then sports clubs, or social committees. Or families. The sense of belonging is not tied up exclusively with religions.
I am not sure what strength to believe what they otherwise wouldn't is about. Yet if anyone has ever been to church, the myriad of beliefs are constant. There is almost a pride - of "I believe differently to everyone else". Ironically, when every person does this - they all look much the same. It is the cults which tend to regiment belief and not just in doctrine but in practice - even to the point of how long your hair must be or what kind of clothing is appropriate to wear.
Religions per se - tend to be much more general. Of course there will always be exceptions.
Religion is not just important for the believer it is important for everyone. Religion is simply the way people look at the world. An Atheist looks at the world through the lens of no god exists. Yet this is important for him or her or they would not bother calling themselves an atheist. Let alone come onto a site - and play around in the religious forum. Importance is importance. We value something by the amount of time we spend talking about it or using our time discussing it. Or practicing it. Religion is just as important for Stephen as it is for me, even though he is an atheist.
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@Tradesecret
A crutch is simply the wrong analogy.
Correct, but analogies are chosen based on one's understanding of the thing to be analogized. So this principle applies. Trash in, trash out. (TITO)
To make a correct analogy of Christianity, one must correctly understand what Christianity is.
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@Tradesecret
Why is religion so important to the believer ?I distinguish religion per se from Christianity. Yep, Christianity is a religion
Sorry Reverend "Tradey" but for all of your sermon, you didn't quite get around to actually telling us why religion is important to the believer. I can only assume that you must have been caught up in some kind of rapture while composing your speech that caused you to miss it altogether.
I appreciate that you would have a lot to say pro religion considering Christianity is most certainly a religion and has been a religion for over 2000 years, but you must have lost the actual question that launched this thread.
So why not whittle it down little and explain why religion is important to yourself.
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@Stephen
I will once you define religion for me.
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@Tradesecret
I will once you define religion for me.
Use any universally accepted definition, you want.
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@Tradesecret
Stephen thinks he’s slick with his line of questioning in this forum and he’s not, he clearly has a hidden agenda for religious people to prove there religion (which is fine BTW) he just isn’t honest in his delivery or accommodating because he’s unwilling to defend counter claims that he makes and no progress can be made with someone that operates like that.
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@Tarik
he clearly has a hidden agenda....
I do, I want know why religion is so important to the believer? Which is hardly "hidden" is it?
for religious people to prove there religion.
Nope. I already believe that believers in god and scripture have a religion, so there is no need for "religious people to prove their religion" to me.
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@Stephen
We did this dance already Stephen, like I said before your still unwilling to defend counter claims that you made and no progress can be made with someone that operates like that.
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@Tarik
you still haven’t defended the counter claims
It is you that hasn't defended single claim that you have made. You just keep adding to your claims.
I started this thread with a question not a claim, you clown .
Have you supported a single one of your claims? Have you told us where this "fear of hell" originates as to why religion is so important to the believer AS YOU HAVE CLIAMED?
Can you prove "hell" even exists? As you have claimed?
And you haven't shown why you believe or even know that it is "fear of hell" that makes religion so important to the believer. As you have claimed.
You see, all unsupported claims made you YOU.
no progress can be made with someone who operates like
Not when you make unsupported claims as you have done.. this why a conversation cannot move forward. Simply because of your own empty unsupported claims.
Now. Off you go. I won't be arguing your unsupported claims .
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@Stephen
I started this thread with a question not a claim, you clown .
Do you even know what a claim is?
religion is important to the believer because of an irrational, unfounded superstitious "fear of hell".
This is a claim (YOUR CLAIM) you clown.
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@Tarik
I started this thread with a question not a claim, you clown .Do you even know what a claim is?
I do. A claim is when someone , just like you, says that the reason religion is so important to believers is because they "fear hell". Which in your case you have failed to support said claim. How do you know that a "fear of hell" is the reason why religion is so important to believers? <<<< answer that . It was you own original unsupported claim.#21
Like I have said and asked : You have put the importance of the believer believing in religion down to "fear of hell". Its a reasonable suggestion if you or they can prove there is such a place as "hell". Can you? Because you haven't offered anything "valid" that supports your own suggestion................This is a claim (YOUR CLAIM) you clown.
Now tell me, where does this irrational, unfounded superstitious "fear of hell" originate. Do you know?
Well until you can support your own original claim.#21 What else does that leave, if not an irrational, unfounded superstition? If you are not willing to even attempt to support your claim and it simply remains unfounded and in the realms of irrational, unfounded superstition.
Now I won't be going around in circles with you.
So off you trot. There's' a good lad.
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@Stephen
Which in your case you have failed to support said claim.
Now your just lying, because after you made your claim pertaining to me you said
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@Tarik
Which in your case you have failed to support said claim.Now your just lying, because after you made your claim pertaining to me you saidI can accept that.
I can accept it IF!
Stephen wrote: Ok. So you are saying that religion is important to the believer because of an irrational, unfounded superstitious "fear of hell". I can accept that.Its a reasonable suggestion if you or they can prove there is such a place as "hell". Can you? #29Now tell me, where does this irrational, unfounded superstitious "fear of hell" originate. Do you know?#34
You have come back with this absolute shite?
Tarik wrote: Whether or not it’s a superstition is besides the point,
No it isn't besides the point and that is not proving your claim you dulcet dunce.. Is all that is doing is dismissing what I have wrote without first proving your own fkn claim.
I won't be responding any more UNTILL you have proven your own original claim.
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@Stephen
I can accept it IF!
That’s not what you said originally LIAR, and that “if” is your claim not mine.
I won't be responding any more UNTILL you have proven your own original claim.
You made that decision to not respond a long time ago, it took a message directed to Tradesecret (NOT YOU) to make you and I go back in circles.
Stephen wrote: Ok. So you are saying that religion is important to the believer because of an irrational, unfounded superstitious "fear of hell". I can accept that.Its a reasonable suggestion if you or they can prove there is such a place as "hell". Can you? #29Now tell me, where does this irrational, unfounded superstitious "fear of hell" originate. Do you know?#34
Now I am asking you to leave this thread as per CoC instructions.
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@Stephen
Its a reasonable suggestion if you or they can prove there is such a place as "hell". Can you?
No it’s a reasonable suggestion if that’s why they believe as they do and you didn’t say “I can accept that” in #29, you absolute dunce.
Now I am asking you to leave this thread as per CoC instructions.
After your the one that invited me, boy have the tables turned.
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@Stephen
Ok.
Religion is equivalent to worldview. No need for supernatural. No need for divine figures. It includes the secular and atheistic worldviews. See Malnak v Yogi 592 F(2d)197 (1979) and Torcaso v Watkins, Clerk 367 US 488 at 495 (1961). It established no need for supernatural and indeed goes beyond theistic religions.
Universal Accepted definition of religion.
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@Tradesecret
Religion is equivalent to worldview. .......................no need for supernatural and indeed goes beyond theistic religions.
And you believe this is the definition of the word religion? And do you accept this?
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@Stephen
Religion is equivalent to worldview. .......................no need for supernatural and indeed goes beyond theistic religions.And you believe this is the definition of the word religion? And do you accept this?
Stephen, I don't have to believe it for the sake of a discussion. Surely you know this.
But I can accept it for the sake of the discussion. It does not mean I have to accept it any further than within this discussion.