wrongdoings of the prophet of islam

Author: Lunar108
Islam
Religion
Fuck religion

Posts

Total: 99
#61
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,358
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Lunar108
I'd agree that respect is earned,
But I also think people tend to give it automatically to certain situations and positions,
Though even in such automatic givens, said respect can be lost.
And these 'give'ins, depend on culture.

Parents, Children, other people, positions in society whether garbage man, teacher, government, certain ideas and concepts depending on culture.
I prefer people deserving respect,
Deserving obedience (To an extent) per circumstance.

Of Islam, I 'really don't know much, and can't speak much.
Though 'most ideologies I've read of, whether Atheist, Theist, Democratic, Monarchy,
Can be turned on their heads, depending on the actors, the circumstance so to speak.

One minute, 10 seconds in, An American Carol: Radicals Christians

There 'have been times in history, regions, individuals, groups,
Of 'many a belief, again, 'Including Atheism,
Where they have been less than savory, to our current values,
Of which even all of ours on this forum, vary.

. . .

Sorry I'm a bit lazy in addressing your points, I'm going to try to cheat,
But would you say your reasons boil down to different culture and values?

#62
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,358
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
You can't separate a philosophy that you think is hate filled from the people who practice it. No one says white supremacy sucks but I can hang out with white supremacist. I am sure atheists will say "sure we can" but that's a lie. No one does that. So you can say it to please some here,  I know better. 
- Polytheist-Witch, Post #60

Of course, that's an extreme example,
It'd be even easier for a white guy to hang out with a racist white friend, or a black guy to hang out with a racist black friend,
Probably be annoying if they bring up their belief too much, maybe a dealbreaker if they act violently on it,
But I expect in history, many people have put aside their personal convictions, and continued to 'hang out with other individuals regardless.

Depends a bit how one 'defines white supremacist, I suppose, how active,
But even with the active, some people can hang out with such,
Depends on the circumstance,
Be more likely for people to hang out with supremacists when it was/is acceptable in a society.
More likely for people to hang out with supremacists if their belief isn't taken to extents one can't stomach.
Topic's author
#63
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
@Lemming
witch
do you not hate christianity for allowing slavery ? prohibiting homosexuality ? ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,etc
would you hate a christian person for his religion and belief ? no you would judge his personality right
I don't hate muslims , I'm ok with having muslim friends and I would judge them based on their personality
but I hate islam for allowing slavry , prohibiting homosexuality , I hate the prophet of islam for sleeping with 9 years old child , for being a male gold digger  for owning slave and trading with slaves ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,etc
Topic's author
#64
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@Lemming
I agree with you on those points ,but as I mentioned before why should I respect such a religion or any religion
#65
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,358
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Lunar108
Reply to Lunar108 #63

So, how would you take action, in this hate you have, for your idea/perspective Islam?

Voice it?
Advocate for legislation?
Call for society to condemn it and all it's connected to?
Other?
#66
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@Lunar108
If that is their religion then that is how they think. Of course I don't hang out with them. I go around family on the holidays for parties, we don't hang out other than that. 
#67
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,358
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Lunar108
I agree with you on those points ,but as I mentioned before why should I respect such a religion or any religion, Lunar108, #64
One respects the table saw, that buzzes the very air with it's turning, and destructive power,
One respects the rain, and it's implications for crops, road conditions,
One respects the concept of an angle, for it's various contributions to architecture and furniture construction.

What I'm getting at, is that I think beliefs warrant respect, IN GENERAL.
Of course, we're going to give 'less respect to beliefs we disagree with, for various reasons, be they logic, aesthetics, culture, so on.

But there's 'something respectable, about beliefs that 'drive individuals and groups,
One doesn't always 'like them, or appreciate their results.

But one respects the power they have.

. . .

Though I suppose some beliefs have 'less power than others,
Whether because it's a weak belief, or the belief has a weak hold in an individual or culture.

Monster under the bed, weak belief,
Though it's well to respect it, in how one handles their children's fear of it.

Though if an adult had such a fear, it-
I'm going off topic.

. . .

I stick with the respect of power argument.
As well as the psychological reasoning that when other's respect something, your approach matters.

(Edit)
Though I can understand people disrespecting an idea they think is stupid (Any idea, I'm not saying Theism is stupid)
I also think a reason for some anti-theists disrespect for theism, is a dumbing down for the 'reasons theism exists, theisms implications, and contributions.

But said dumbing down, can exist for many ideas,
Sometimes a laugh and making light can work, but that's usually only if the other person can quickly see your perspective, and I mean 'truly see your perspective.
Which requires great similarity of thought, environment, nature.
Though often that similarity, though great, comes about easily.
People of similar nature, upbringing, intelligence, knowledge, culture.
Topic's author
#68
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@Lemming
hating the religion doesn't mean hating people who follow it ,we judge people based on their personalities not their religions
but we judge religions based on their teachings , god/gods , ideologies , history and many other things , the actions of the person delivering the message of god (since he's god chosen)



#69
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,358
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Lunar108
I sometimes think people 'are their ideas. . .

But that thought aside, I'd agree people often attempt to put their passion against the concepts, rather than the individual.

Though I don't recall hate the sin, not the sinner in the Bible, and I am going by paltry Wikipedia research,

Matthew 7:1

In the King James Version of the Bible the text reads:
Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Chrysostom: Wherefore He does not say, ‘Do not cause a sinner to cease,’ but do not judge; that is, be not a bitter judge; correct him indeed, but not as an enemy seeking revenge, but as a physician applying a remedy.
Still, despite such attempts to direct one's passion against the concept, rather than the individual, the individual usually winds up related.

Whether in hatred of drugs in an individual, action must be taken, if proactive, such as an intervention led by qualified professionals, rehab.
(In the best of cases)

In worse, well,
People often rail against America's war on crime,
We saw in history how the Communists in Russian, led their war against 'capitalism, yet so many of their people suffered in it.
Though that's not a dig at Russia or Communism, so much as hating the concept, not the person.

All the 'world, has it's share of concepts, and those who follow them, entangled.
#70
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,081
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Reece101
I would agree.

But unpredictably predictable is  a completely different kettle of fish to; predictably unpredictable, which was the phrase that Trade used.
#71
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,081
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Tradesecret
It's all word play Trade.

Blah blah for sure.

Tell the gullible that they must repent and they will.


From almost total nihilism to the acceptance of a GOD principle, is a big compromise.

And saying sorry is not quite the same as the religious concept of repentance.....As you well know.
#72
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,620
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Tradesecret
It is none of your business. 


You made it the business of every member here the moment you posted your comment here on a forum on the WWW. You always seem to forget this don't you, Reverend "Tradey"?

Nuh - your misunderstanding not mine. 

Nope. It is clearly your own misguided misunderstanding of  the nature and purpose of a forum on the WWW , Reverend "Tradey".


I posted and I can choose not to answer as well.

I agree. And that wasn't my point, as you well know.


Just like you refused to answer the question others have put to  you.

Stop telling lies. 


You just refuse to answer questions.

Stop telling lies.


  So to be perfectly clear- I choose when I want to answer. And whether i answer or not - is no reflection upon whether I have an answer or not .


 Nope. It is purposeful avoidance for lack of a reply or answer which you often come up against.

#73
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,620
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Lunar108
but I hate islam for allowing slavry , prohibiting homosexuality , I hate the prophet of islam for sleeping with 9 years old child , for being a male gold digger  for owning slave and trading with slaves ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,etc

And its perpetual Jihad .  You forgot to mention perpetual Jihad against the non believer. At least to  my knowledge the Christ on the Christian  doesn't command one's head be removed  for simply not believing in him.
#74
rosends
rosends's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 806
3
2
6
rosends's avatar
rosends
3
2
6
-->
@Stephen
Does Christianity teach an eternity in hell fire for not believing? Is that so different? 
#75
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,620
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@rosends
Does Christianity teach an eternity in hell fire for not believing? Is that so different? 

It may well do Rosi. 

The difference here   I believe is that it leaves judgment (hell fire) to god. What the Christ of the Christians doesn't command is for his followers to go out into the world and convert everyone  "until all religion is for Allah" by the sword as does the god of Muslims.
Although it is well documented that Christians by their own vocation, have butchered hundreds of thousands in the name of their Christ/god.
#76
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,437
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@zedvictor4
t's all word play Trade.

Blah blah for sure.

Tell the gullible that they must repent and they will.


From almost total nihilism to the acceptance of a GOD principle, is a big compromise.

And saying sorry is not quite the same as the religious concept of repentance.....As you well know.

I like you Zed.  This is the reason I keep coming back to this. But surely - your own foolishness is eating you up inside?

Repentance is necessary when you sin. We all know it is true.  Guilt eats everyone up.  

Pretend away - but you have my PM. Pleaser do when you wish to be a little bit more honest. 
#77
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,437
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Stephen
It is none of your business. 


You made it the business of every member here the moment you posted your comment here on a forum on the WWW. You always seem to forget this don't you, Reverend "Tradey"?

Nuh - your misunderstanding not mine. 

Nope. It is clearly your own misguided misunderstanding of  the nature and purpose of a forum on the WWW , Reverend "Tradey".

Why I continue to reply to me - has be gobsmacked.  Every one here knows you are a loser.  Still Christ loved the losers - perhaps that is my bane as well.  


I posted and I can choose not to answer as well.

I agree. And that wasn't my point, as you well know.
No, your point was to try and ridicule me. Again it didn't work. 

Just like you refused to answer the question others have put to  you.

Stop telling lies. 
I don't tell lies. 

You just refuse to answer questions.

Stop telling lies.
I don't tell lies.  Do you remember being asked about whether you were atheist or not? You refused to answer. It was not my question. Ironically, it was one of your pseudo alternatives. But that is a matter for you. 

  So to be perfectly clear- I choose when I want to answer. And whether i answer or not - is no reflection upon whether I have an answer or not .


 Nope. It is purposeful avoidance for lack of a reply or answer which you often come up against.

I refuse to answer when I choose to. Is it purposeful? Absolutely.  But not because it is too hard - but because I can't be bothered. 
#78
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,620
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Tradesecret

You just refuse to answer questions.

Stop telling lies.
I don't tell lies.  Do you remember being asked about whether you were atheist or not? You refused to answer. It was not my question.


I believe I remember being asked that question. And I did answer it. I said simply that " I believe many of the stories in the bible minus the miracles . I also said that I believe many of the characters in the bible existed adding that I found the Old Testamant to be more truthful than the New Testament. So what that makes me is down to the individual outsider looking in". 

So if that is your best example of me "not answering questions"  you are a fkn none starter, you contradictory clown.



I posted and I can choose not to answer as well.

I agree. And that wasn't my point, as you well know.
No, your point was to try and ridicule me. 
You manage to do that all on your own without any help from me, Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecret.  😂🤣😂🤣🤣

That CV of that you invented about yourself has to be the most ridiculous attempt at gaining a holier than thou status above anyone else on the WHOLE of this forum.  Would you like me to remind you of it?   Its very impressive to anyone that is stupid enough to believe it, Reverend "Tradey".🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

#79
rosends
rosends's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 806
3
2
6
rosends's avatar
rosends
3
2
6
-->
@Stephen
The difference here   I believe is that it leaves judgment (hell fire) to god. What the Christ of the Christians doesn't command is for his followers to go out into the world and convert everyone  "until all religion is for Allah" by the sword as does the god of Muslims.
I understand this distinction and, yes, it is an important one, and the butchering that occurred over the years was one step removed from a direct edict to behead, but I'm just thinking about the underlying approach/attitude towards others outside the particular faith. Isn't each religion teaching that those who don't accept its theological paradigm are destined, by definition, to violent punishment? While in one, the purveyors are in this world, and in the other, in the next world, each looks at the "outsider" as unworthy on a grand scale.
#80
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,620
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@rosends
Isn't each religion teaching that those who don't accept its theological paradigm are destined, by definition, to violent punishment?

Like I have said. One appears to leave punishment in "gods " hands in the " here after" , while the other is punishment of death in the hear and now. Personally I would rather take my chances in the "next world" as I have been quite attached to my head for sometime now, Rosi and don't like the idea of losing it on the whim of some barbarian claiming it is his duty to remove my head from my body because his moon splitting prophet or god has commanded it if I do not convert.
Quran 8:39
And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.


While in one, the purveyors are in this world, and in the other, in the next world, each looks at the "outsider" as unworthy on a grand scale.

And how these purveyors only look at the outsider as untrustworthy is where it should remain; in one's minds only.
#81
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,081
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Tradesecret
Sin, guilt and repentance.

As opposed to being slightly dishonest, worrying a tad and either owning up or not bothering to own up.

And then there's everything or anything in between.

And I think that original sin was sort of a sexual motivated phobia.

And repentance...Perhaps a good flogging of the buttocks....Was a sexually motivated philia.

Glory be......The perversity of religion.....And humans in general.


And as sure as HELL!......Guilt doesn't eat me up Trade.....HaHa.

Does guilt really eat you up Trade?

Do you spend your life repenting for every little indiscretion?
#82
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
 Isn't each religion teaching that those who don't accept its theological paradigm are destined, by definition, to violent punishment.
No. Only monotheists religions have a worship me or suffer stance. 

8 days later

#83
Athias
Athias's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 3,192
3
3
9
Athias's avatar
Athias
3
3
9
-->
@FLRW
The men who wrote the Bible claimed Mary submitted obediently when she became the Mother of God. That does not mean she was not raped.
I think that's exactly what it means.

She was raped because she could not possibly have consented.
Why not?

The Biblical narrative makes it clear Mary was afraid.
Afraid of the divine phallus or the responsibility with which she was charged?

She had no idea what the consequences would be for refusing her assigned role as Mother of God.
Yes, she did. She was a child of Israel. Her obedience to God was not informed by ignorance.

Consent to impregnation presumes a relationship of equals which cannot possibly be presumed between a young teen girl and an omnipotent Father God. There was an enormous difference in power. The youngest age of consent in the United States is 16, and an eternal Father God would not pass for an age-gap exception to United States statutory rape laws.
Consent presumes a reflection of one's intent and values, which can be, but not necessarily restricted to, a relationship between "equals." Second, the lowest age of consent is 11 years old (in Nigeria, I believe) which is a lot closer to Nazareth than the yet to be formed United States. Third, in the Judaic religion, a girl reaches womanhood at the age of 12 (the term Bat Mitzvah is used by Caucasian Jews); and last, what do think mattered to Mary more: the decrees of the United States which wasn't around then, or the commands of her God?

You're arguing a nonsensical legal absolute.
#84
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,617
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Athias

If God could create Man out of dust, why did he have to rape Mary to create Jesus?
#85
Athias
Athias's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 3,192
3
3
9
Athias's avatar
Athias
3
3
9
-->
@FLRW
f God could create Man out of dust, why did he have to rape Mary to create Jesus?
I won't give credence or legitimacy to a nonsensical point.
#86
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,617
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Athias

So you are saying God has a thing for 14 year old girls ?
#87
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
Says the guy who in another post says his favorite god is Zeus because he gets all the women but in the stories where he gets all the women he rapes them.  Makes no sense to me either but hey that's the way the atheist mind works.
#88
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,617
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Polytheist-Witch

So you are saying God is like Zeus?
#89
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,617
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
Poly, please answer this simple question. If God made Adam and Eve out of dust, why did he have to impregnate a 14 year old virgin to get his son?
Greek God-human breeding was actually very, very common in Greek myth. Zeus and the other Olympians were constantly and permanently knocking up princesses, queens, nymphs, sirens, lesser goddesses, warrior women and just plain fair maidens who bathed in the pool with their handmaidens. And the handmaidens, too, sometimes. Zeus even managed to impregnate mortal women when he was a swan or a bull.

See how brain lesions in the  religious mind work?
#90
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@FLRW
Because Christianity is not a religion based in Judaism. Christianity is actually based out of the Roman area. Because Paul was Jewish and had a background the Jewish faith it was mixed in with it, but the base core of Christianity is out of Rome and  that's why the Catholic Church was Christianity until Protestantism. And that's why god impregnated Mary because that's how it worked in the Roman stories. It's also why Christmas is it the same time as Saturnalia and not Hanukkah.