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@Stephen
Coming from you - I will take that a compliment.
Heaven
Posts
Total:
79
10 days later
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@Polytheist-Witch
Have you ever seen the movie Astral City
No I have not but that sounds very interesting. A quick search though....is the movie not in English?
or read either of the books the Afterlife of Billy Fingers and the Blue Island. Where spirit inspired the text.
No, have you read any of Paul Twitchell's books though? Like the "Tiger's Fang" or the "Spiritual Notebook"?
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@EtrnlVw
Have you ever seen the movie Astral CityNo I have not but that sounds very interesting. A quick search though....is the movie not in English
No but it's subtitled.
or read either of the books the Afterlife of Billy Fingers and the Blue Island. Where spirit inspired the text.No, have you read any of Paul Twitchell's books though? Like the "Tiger's Fang" or the "Spiritual Notebook"?
No but they have interesting titles. I would love to do a book club here but I didn't not think the environment is conducive to engaging conversation about them.
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@Polytheist-Witch
This site is very good at "engaging conversation".
Though expecting everyone else to engage in your conversation as you would prefer it, is unlikely to happen.
Every opinion is valid, even if it is contrary to your opinion.
And obviously I am right. Proof if we tried to discuss anything in a normal, un-insulting way the atheists will not let it happen. It would be all poop, gold balls, mental illness comments and intelligence cracks. That's why the Religion form is a joke.
18 days later
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@Tradesecret
Here is the Gnostic Christian view.
Let me speak
to the lie of Gnostic Christians hating matter.
I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religion’s originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.
The Christian reality.
1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.
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The Gnostic Christian reality.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"
"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.
Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?
Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”
That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.
Regards
DL
I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religion’s originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.
The Christian reality.
1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.
-----------
The Gnostic Christian reality.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"
"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.
Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?
Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”
That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.
Regards
DL
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@GnosticChristianBishop
Here is the Gnostic Christian view.
Ok.
Let me speak to the lie of Gnostic Christians hating matter.
Ok.
I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religion’s originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.
Ok. Yet Christians DO NOT hate matter. Can you provide links to where you allege Christians committed any murders of your originators? I don't hate anyone. Certainly not Gnostics.
The Christian reality.1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.
Neither of those verses teach us to hate matter.
1 John 2: 15-17 are verses that talk not about matter. They talk about the world. Not matter. Rather the philosophy or idea of the world. This is the world - without God as boss. Or king. The world where lust rules. The world in fact which will pass away. Don't forget Jesus said the meek shall inherit the earth. If it is evil - this so called matter - why would the meek inherit evil? It makes no sense.
Genesis 3:17 expounds the idea that the earth is cursed because of Adam's sin. Yet the one consistent strain of Christian thinking is redemption. Wherever sin abounds - where the shadow of the cross falls - is redemption found. This is the entire purpose of the cross. Jesus redeems the world. There is nothing against matter to be found in that verse.
The Gnostic Christian reality.Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.[And after they have reigned they will rest.]""If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.
Thanks for sharing your views. I don't know who the gnostic Jesus is - so your further posts hold no authority for me.
I would agree with you that people do not see God's kingdom all around us. Hence most of us are ignorant. This obviously is a sign of poverty. But with respect it does not mean you are correct about Jesus and this so called extra sayings.
Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?
????? When I look around, I see the perfection of God's kingdom. Yes, I see sin in humanity. But I also see redemption in those who have embraced Jesus as Lord. God is My Savior.
Candide."It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.
Thanks for your thoughts. We live in the world God has made for us. Yet it is still a sinful world that is need of a Savior. My view - would be embrace this Savior before it is TOO late.
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@Tradesecret
You seem to think that using Jesus as a messiah or scapegoat is a moral thing to do.
Care to argue for us sinning by abdicating our own responsibility for our sins, the way Jesus taught?
He taught top be responsible and here you are sinning by trying to abdicate you responsibility.
You would not teach your children to do what you are doing.
Explain your poor morals, as compared to what Jesus taught, which follows.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul
that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father,
neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the
righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon
him.
Deuteronomy
24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children,
nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be
put to death for his own sin.
I think it strange that is we are to love good matter, that you would not see us hating the cursed matter that Christians have to see.
Regards
DL
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@GnosticChristianBishop
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@Stephen
Don't hold your breath. Most Christians cannot do apologetics for this issue, as well as most of their immoral moral tenets.
There is no biblical justification for us abdicating our responsibilities and immorally using as scapegoat.
All that Jesus said shows this and thus he would see it as a sin.
Jesus said pick up your cross and follow me. He did not say ride me as your scapegoat.
The moment morals are at issue, Christians vanish.
Regards
DL
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@GnosticChristianBishop
You seem to think that using Jesus as a messiah or scapegoat is a moral thing to do.
Isn't everything an issue of morality? It just depends whose morals we choose to follow.
We don't use Jesus. God sent the Messiah. This was not only moral justified it was necessary.
Care to argue for us sinning by abdicating our own responsibility for our sins, the way Jesus taught?
You lack much knowledge. Christians do not abdicate their responsibility for sin. It is the non-Christian who denies they are sinful. Christians accept that they are sinful and accept responsibility for it. What Christians do - however is throw ourselves on the mercy of God because we know we don't deserve mercy. We trust God in his promises. Jesus, an innocent man, died for those who trust in him. Since the wages of sin is death - and Jesus did not sin, death could not hold him. Christians don't deny the responsibility for their sins. Yet to trust Jesus - means implicitly that we accept we need help because we can't do it by ourselves. This is not denying responsibility - this is us - saying - help. I do not think asking for help is sinful.
He taught top be responsible and here you are sinning by trying to abdicate you responsibility.
LOL! Jesus did teach us to be responsible. Trusting in Jesus is not denying responsibility. Nor is it sinful. Christians do not abdicate responsibility. Trusting in Jesus is asking God for help because we recognize we need help. Asking for help is neither denying responsibility nor is it sinful.
You would not teach your children to do what you are doing.
Yes I would. I would teach my children to ask for help if they need it. I would teach my children that they cannot do everything by themselves. I would teach my children that can't save themselves.
Explain your poor morals, as compared to what Jesus taught, which follows.
My morals are not poor. You have it backwards.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Agreed. Exactly my point. The wages of sin is death. Everyone who sins will die. Guess what? Everyone dies. Each person is responsible for their own sins. But now read Jesus' words in John 3:16. For God so loved the world that whosoever trusts in him will not die but will receive everlasting life". Jesus says - trust me. And even though you die - you will live. How can this be? Because Christians throw themselves on the mercy of God, not because they deserve it, but because they recognize they are sinners in need of a savior and cannot save themselves.
Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
Exactly. Again I am in total agreement. Every person is responsible for their own sins. Every person will die. Christians admit this and acknowledge it. This is why they throw themselves on the mercy of the Court, for the very reason they know they don't deserve mercy. If someone believes they deserve mercy, then they don't understand mercy - and fit into the situation you are talking about - sinfully not being responsible. Asking for help because you understand you don't deserve help and because you realize you can't do it by yourself is not sinful. It is entirely relying upon the grace of God.
I think it strange that is we are to love good matter, that you would not see us hating the cursed matter that Christians have to see.
You will need to unpack that last sentence further. I don't understand what you are saying.
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@Tradesecret
You agree you should take responsibility, then put it on Jesus.
Who is to die for your sins?
If the price of sin is death, then Yahweh died in Job 2;3 Where Yahweh admits to being moved by Satan to sin.
As to Jesus, where is it written that an immortal Jesus/god can die?
Get the quote.
As to your "We don't use Jesus. God sent the Messiah. This was not only moral justified it was necessary. "
God sent the messiah for you to use, and you say you refuse to do so.
Rather ungrateful that.
Regards
DL
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@GnosticChristianBishop
You agree you should take responsibility, then put it on Jesus.
You twist things a lot don't you. We all die. That is the ultimate responsibility isn't?
Yet, we trust Jesus that after we die - we will live. Do you understand the concept of mercy?
Who is to die for your sins?
Jesus, the Messiah can. Why do you think that God cannot arrange things this way?
If the price of sin is death, then Yahweh died in Job 2;3 Where Yahweh admits to being moved by Satan to sin.
Again more twisting of words. God cannot sin. So Job is not making such an admission.
As to Jesus, where is it written that an immortal Jesus/god can die?
Jesus died as a man. God cannot die.
As to your "We don't use Jesus. God sent the Messiah. This was not only moral justified it was necessary. "God sent the messiah for you to use, and you say you refuse to do so.Rather ungrateful that.
LOL @ your twisting. We don't use Jesus. He rescues us. He does not throw out a life raft. He takes us drowned people and raises us to life.
Sinners don't have the capacity to save ourselves - we don't have the capacity to use God. LLOL @ you. We are TOTALLY dependent upon him for everything.
God is the author of salvation. God is our savior.
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@Tradesecret
"Jesus, the Messiah can. "
Liar.
Only if Jesus ignores his own teachings, which I quoted.
I do not have to twist. You do.
Stop doing so or take your filthy self serving lies and shove off.
Regards
DL
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@Tradesecret
God sent the Messiah.
Well he failed miserably as a "messiah" didn't he? But then again you wouldn't know what was expected of a Jewish messiah, would you Reverend "Tradey".
11 days later
Reading this thread really expounds why Jesus was called a "stumbling block". It's obvious that one's private interpretation can be an idol.
Wow, the options for heresy are many!
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@ethang5
The stumbling blocks are many.
And heresy is because.
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@zedvictor4
The stumbling blocks are many.
Not ones like Jesus that virtually every cult and atheist stumbled over.
And heresy is because.
Im sure when you thought this, to you, it contained information.
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@Tradesecret
Heaven and hell are states or perception and mind.
There is no supernatural in Gnostic Christianity and that is why we have decent theories.
The Gnostic
Christian reality.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"
"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.
Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?
Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”
That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.
Regards
DL