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@Lunatic
I just don't think I have seen enough from him to convince me he is scum,
this is true for everybody
Bakugan Battle Brawlers Mafia DP1
Posts
Total:
170
Gut feeling is good enough. Read malcolm gladwell's blink
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@Wylted
I've read most of Malcom Gladwell and I love his podcast. I am particularly fond of his calls to turn LA's golf courses into city parks. Still, an argument for trusting our intuition more should not be mistaken for an argument to abandon reason in consideration.
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@oromagi
which he has done in the past, right?
Not in any game of pie's I have played in before no. However, as I was looking into his last few endgames to prove my point, I see that he actually did give mafia a full fake claim with a description, character and role in ancient roman battles. So maybe grey isn't as town confirmed as I initially thought.
I don't believe that GP checks in with teammates before acting. GP has never demonstrated much capacity for team player. GP always full claims first post of the game, no SCUM team is going to prevent that and they'd be suicidal to try to defend him. Whether the SCUM team was OK with it is not knowable to me.
I'll concede the bolded part. However the last game I hosted where GP was scum I feel like I remember him asking mhis partners for advice. I can't remember whether that was a live mafia game in discord or in the forums and probably don't have the evidence to back that up, but I don't think GP acts without permission from his scum buddies. And his excuse for copy pasting the role makes sense if he genuinely wanted to get mod killed because he didn't sign up for the game. That said I am not as convinced he is surefire town anymore after seeing the role PM from ancient roman battles. That and with your argument about mafia probably letting him use it right away, I'll just go ahead and concede the "Grey is confirmed town" point entirely. He's a complete null for me at this point.
Naw, I just said, "that's rather sus, let's see who else thinks so," and went to bed. I definitely think Whiteflame is more sus than Supa.
Supa may have already been lynched at this point, not sure what the vote count is. But there isn't an active case against whiteflame, and we probably need one if we are going to lynch him. If I am willing to concede argumentatively that greyparrot's affiliation is null, I can't say I see whiteflame as being particularly more than null either based on what we've seen.
The thing is you aren't wrong that maybe his motive in guessing at BP could have been scum motivated, I just think your method of not pursuing that with him with questions and instead spending your time to ask others why they aren't lynching him over someone else, isn't really a convincing strategy if you are trying to pursue a lynch on someone you think is scum.
I'm still shocked- you are supposed to play tougher than that.
I explained why I did it at the time, but to re-iterate, I wasn't just claiming cop for shits and giggles. As Town I am usually dead dp1 anyway, so I figure I wouldn't have got a succesful cop result anyway. I was also sussing someone who actually turned out to be scum, so I likely would have been killed anyway. But the main reason I did it was because I needed to the credibility to prove pie was scum (he was), and honestly the pokemon thing was a strong indicator he was scum (frustratingly by your own friggin logic from earlier about being skeptical of not having many pokemon claims) so if I was getting a 1 for 1 with mafia out of a claim, whne I likely would have died np1 anyway, that's an amazing trade. I still am baffled you guys didn't lynch pie there, but I let it go since you guys got him the next phase. Shouldn't really have been much deliberation about it though after I flipped... hindsight is 20/20 though.
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@whiteflame
Since oro won't ask you the question I will. Why did you publicly guess at oromagi's role? What benefit did you think it would achieve?
Vote Count:
Supa (4/5) - Wylted, Luna, Bron, Grey
Grey (1/5) - Supa
Poly (1/5) - Oro
UNVOTE
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@ILikePie5
unvote. What's the time limit?
I'll try to re-vote before day phase expires.
according to the OP it looks like we have about 3 hours but we should hear it from pie.
oromagi
TOWN
TOWN
Lunatic
Bron
Polyglot
SupaDudz
Wylted
Evilgenius
Whiteflame
SCUM
Vote Count:
Supa (3/5) - Wylted, Bron, Grey
Grey (1/5) - Supa
The separation between towniest and scummiest is pretty small so far.
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@drlebronski
VTL drlebronski
for lurking
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@Lunatic
@oromagi
Since oro won't ask you the question I will. Why did you publicly guess at oromagi's role? What benefit did you think it would achieve?
Just finished dropping off my wife at the airport, so now I've got a chance to address this.
I publicly guessed Oro's role because I figured that the revelation could only help town.
First, it would get people thinking about the soft claim that Oro gave in his first post. Seems like very few people were paying attention to that, which is especially odd when it was the first post to include the wincon that became the subject of some discussion during this DP, but it's also the only soft claim I've seen so far, and I think it's just generally a bad idea to ignore those entirely when they come up unless revealing those roles is outright damaging to town.
Second, if he had been revealed to have claimed the Beloved Princess, I think that would have been valuable information for town. It's a common fake claim made by scum for the obvious reason that it deters lynches, which has been an issue before. Bringing attention to what I thought was one of the more suspicious elements of the posts made so far in this DP seemed reasonable to me, especially since the only thing we stood to lose was making Oro remain a nebulous target for an NK by scum. That doesn't seem like a particularly damaging loss to me, nor does eliminating Beloved Princess as his claim do any harm.
Third, I don't really see how my decision here is scummy. The much more obvious move for me if I was scum would be to discuss this with my scum partner in chat, not to openly ask Oro, especially when he had the option to straight up lie or just refuse to answer. As scum, why would I draw attention to a role like this openly? Why not just nix Oro from the potential NK targets and be done with it? And if I was just interested in determining what Oro's role is, then my lack of follow-up with alternate options seems odd as well, especially given Oro's initially encouraging response to my interpretation of his soft claim. I can understand seeing my choice as not particularly beneficial to town, but it's certainly not anti-town or scummy in any way I can parse out. Maybe this is just me going through the WIFOM scenarios, but if I was scum, I think I'd do a better job than this.
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@whiteflame
As scum, why would I draw attention to a role like this openly?
Because, as you said, you weren't sure of your guess. You were hoping for confirmation.
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@whiteflame
First, it would get people thinking about the soft claim that Oro gave in his first post. Seems like very few people were paying attention to that, which is especially odd when it was the first post to include the wincon that became the subject of some discussion during this DP, but it's also the only soft claim I've seen so far, and I think it's just generally a bad idea to ignore those entirely when they come up unless revealing those roles is outright damaging to town.
tbh I am not usually sure what to make of of his soft claims. He usually reveals what they meant at some point, but I've overanalyzed it one time in drafters "BAMF" mafia gameonce and ended up mislynching him, so usually I just kind of ignore them. And I don't even fvck with IWWTT plays anymore, it's well known that mods like to cahnge those up to avoid game breaking analysis. It's frankly not a line of logic I prefer to use to solve games, and many people consider it to be kind of a cheap lne of logic. It's the type of thing mikal always pursues religously, but never takes ownership for when he is wrong about it. You've seen plenty of examples of that yourself I am sure.
Second, if he had been revealed to have claimed the Beloved Princess, I think that would have been valuable information for town. It's a common fake claim made by scum for the obvious reason that it deters lynches, which has been an issue before. Bringing attention to what I thought was one of the more suspicious elements of the posts made so far in this DP seemed reasonable to me, especially since the only thing we stood to lose was making Oro remain a nebulous target for an NK by scum. That doesn't seem like a particularly damaging loss to me, nor does eliminating Beloved Princess as his claim do any harm.
Fair enough I suppose I kind of figured this was your motive myself which is why I didn't feel the need to pressure you for it.
Third, I don't really see how my decision here is scummy. The much more obvious move for me if I was scum would be to discuss this with my scum partner in chat, not to openly ask Oro, especially when he had the option to straight up lie or just refuse to answer. As scum, why would I draw attention to a role like this openly? Why not just nix Oro from the potential NK targets and be done with it? And if I was just interested in determining what Oro's role is, then my lack of follow-up with alternate options seems odd as well, especially given Oro's initially encouraging response to my interpretation of his soft claim. I can understand seeing my choice as not particularly beneficial to town, but it's certainly not anti-town or scummy in any way I can parse out. Maybe this is just me going through the WIFOM scenarios, but if I was scum, I think I'd do a better job than this.
TBH this part kind of feels over-explainy for a simple question bordering the line of "Over-defensive". I am not neccesarily suspicious of it because I know you like to give detailed explanations, but a lot of this kind of jumps into the WIFOM territory unneccarily. I mean I take all WIFOM with a grain of salt, but I don't think anyone really thinks you were role fishing, though oro implied some suspicion over it.
Anyways moving on from this, ay end of day phase thoughts about our progression? TBH I know the case on supa isn't strong but I would like to achieve a lynch this day phase regardless. Not sure we have the time to get a lynch off on anyone else, and the only other options seem to be lateral moves like lynching evil or bron for inactivity and lack of usefulness, which I don't really want to do largely for reasons explained in dp1 of the last game. You okay with the supa lynch today?
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@oromagi
Because, as you said, you weren't sure of your guess. You were hoping for confirmation.
Again, don’t really understand the logic. Not sure why I would specifically put myself out there to get confirmation when I could just avoid NKing you under the supposition that you were the Beloved Princess and wait for confirmation to come from hard claims later. I wouldn’t risk anything substantial by targeting others excepting the possibility that you had a substantial PR, which, at this stage, would characterize anyone among those who currently haven’t claimed. Again, this would just be poor strategy to show my hand as scum.
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@Lunatic
About 2.5 hours left.
Vote Count:
Supa (3/5) - Wylted, Bron, Grey
Grey (1/5) - Supa
Bron (1/5) - Oro
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@Lunatic
Yeah, I agree with basically everything you said in response to my previous post. I tend to overthink things, hence the WIFOM portion, but my logic, as you pointed out, is contained to point #2.
Anyways moving on from this, ay end of day phase thoughts about our progression? TBH I know the case on supa isn't strong but I would like to achieve a lynch this day phase regardless. Not sure we have the time to get a lynch off on anyone else, and the only other options seem to be lateral moves like lynching evil or bron for inactivity and lack of usefulness, which I don't really want to do largely for reasons explained in dp1 of the last game. You okay with the supa lynch today?
The cases against anyone are pretty weak this DP. As I see it, Supa’s taking a backseat (read: being almost completely absent) after putting down a vote on GP is lazy and his logic has been off-putting, if not entirely out of character for him. Both Evil and Bron (especially Evil, since he posted that he was reading, but has done nothing since) warrant more attention that we don’t have the time to give them, and I’d be willing to pursue both of them for claims during the next DP. That being said, I don’t see a better choice than Supa right now, even though I have a gut feeling that he’ll flip town. Unless he hops on and full claims soon, though, my perception of him won’t change. Like you said, a no lynch is not a preferable outcome to me, so I’ll just go for it.
VTL Supa
Vote Count:
Supa (4/5) - Wylted, Bron, Grey, Whiteflame
Grey (1/5) - Supa
Bron (1/5) - Oro
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@Vader
Last chance to get on and claim mate. I'll hold the hammer for another hour then I leave work and probably won't have a chance to get on again tonight.
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@Lunatic
I don't have this patience. Dude sucks at mafia and is obviously scum. Let's just move on. I honestly feel bad for supa, he us scum I. Like 75% of games laately
I actually got to hammer now any way. Sorry supa. Hope your not a PR. Last hour of work is getting crazy and wont have a chance at the computer the rest of the day
vtl supa
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@Lunatic
He's had almost 7 hours since you initially sussed him and hasn't been on in over 20 hours. It would be one thing if there had been some promise to be on before the end of the DP, but if he's not keeping track of when the DP is ending and aiming to be on at least a couple of hours before it does, then that's on him. Won't be good for the rest of us if he's town and a PR, but the decision still makes sense.
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@ILikePie5
I force a lynch on Greyparrot
Nevermind I thought there was 2 votes on Grey that were not me
I had a confirmable role. You fucking suck lol
I can't get fucking drunk for one whole DP without someone having a foot up my ass
SupaDudz - Naga - This whole series started because you sought to go after the Infinity Core and Silent Core in the middle of Vestroia. However, you were absorbed into the Silent Core and only came out at the end of the show. However, at that point in time, you were the most powerful Bakugan, holding the ability to eliminate any non-ultimate Bakugan and one without the Infinity Core. You are the Duke. Once per game(except at MYLO/LYLO) if more than 20% of players (excluding yourself are on a wagon), you may unilaterally force the lynch of that wagon. You win with the Town.
Town needs to do a better job at not fucking rushing stupid lynch trains when we have time in the DP. This is why scum win 3/4 of time because town just digs themselves into a whole
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@Vader
Dude, don't put this on us. You were entirely absent throughout most of this DP and gave no indication that you would return. You had a role you could confirm, but one that you apparently would have used to lynch GP, the only person in this game I would consider to be almost entirely town confirmed, so you would have wasted the lynch and confirmed yourself, which would have put us in the same position. Great.
Well, at least we know based on your claim that some of the claims came with the "You win with the Town" wincon up front.