Theory about conservatives

Author: Double_R

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@Double_R
self identified conservatives [...] claim that the left just wants to silence their voices [...] The left is not trying to silence conservatives [...] what am I getting wrong?
You generalize that conservatives are alleging that leftists are generally attempting to silence them, and that leftists are making no such attempts. There certainly are conservatives making such allegations, and there certainly are leftists who are not trying to silence conservatives. Yet, the converse is also true. You're going down a rabbit hole of heuristic fiction when both of these groups are composed entirely of individuals. Collective responsibility and pride are equally unsound. The mention of the destructiveness of tribalism is ironic when this perspective is along rather similar lines.
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Even if people on the right deserve to be banned more often (I don’t concede this but for arguments sake) they could still be getting banned too much. You are saying basically that conservatives are being banned from social media because they are making hateful and nasty comments but they are too hateful and nasty to realize this.
I never argued that conservatives are nasty. The point I was making is that the nasty and hateful things getting many on the political right banned is not conservatism. My criticism of conservatives is the conflation of those two things in order to claim that they are somehow being victimized by the left, so your quote demonstrates the entire point of this thread.

Whether conservatives are being banned unfairly is a legitimate concern and discussion, if that’s the conversation we were having then I would have no reason to post this.

This is what makes me roll my eyes whenever Democrats say there is no voter fraud. Yes there is, and in the last verified instance of it you were the victims! I think what you and people who think the same as you tend to miss is that power always uses unpopular edge cases to roll things out at first. They to be make for banning discussion on election fraud in 2020 because the evidence simply does not show widespread voter fraud. But what if, in a future election, there really IS voter fraud? 
When Democrats say there was no voter fraud they’re not being literal. You’re attacking a strawman. Democrats just get tired sometimes of having to include the word “widespread” in that sentence because they shouldn’t have to, it should be common sense that this is what they mean, especially after months of public debate.

The idea that they are banning discussion about voter fraud is nonsense and another example of conflating things that are entirely different. What democrats are saying is that if you are going to claim there was voter fraud then the burden is on you to provide evidence of your claim, and in the absence of evidence not only is there is no reason for anyone to take your claim seriously but it is irresponsible for anyone to give you a platform to spread your unfounded nonsense.

This is not unique to election fraud or the political right, this is how society has always worked. Would you support CNN booking Alex Jones so he can explain to the world why he believes Sandy Hook was a government hoax and that all the parents pretending to be grieving the loss of their children are really just actors? We both know the answer. The burden of proof is a real thing and it applies here just like anywhere else.

One of the good things about a democratic society is that everyone, even the people who have no social or economic power, get to speak their minds. 
I think my previous comment about the burden of proof addresses this somewhat, as well as what I said to Wylted in post 23 (first two paragraphs). Feel free to respond to it.

My final point in this wall of text: realize that the elites in this country aren’t really your friend.
This is one of those types of comments I hear on the right all the time and it just makes me scratch my head. It’s also central to my point in this thread. 

No one I am aware of supports what is happening out of some notion that those who are in control of what’s happening are friends of the left. If that’s how you see this then you are completely missing the entire public conversation… which is exactly what I was describing in the OP. To see things this way requires one to view all of this as, like I already describe, as a team sport. This isn’t about team or sides, it’s about what is right and what is wrong. 
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@Double_R
they were let in, if you dont want people destroying the congress, dont let them in
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@FLRW
they were let in and there have been many protests in the capital, remember kavanaugh
Double_R
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@dfss9788
You're going down a rabbit hole of heuristic fiction when both of these groups are composed entirely of individuals. 
Every group that’s ever been analyzed is composed entirely of individuals, that’s why we don’t assess groups in the same way we assess individuals. So what part of my OP needs correcting?
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@Dr.Franklin
they were let in, if you dont want people destroying the congress, dont let them in
Can you please paraphrase what I just said to you, because I don’t think you read a word of it.

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@Tradesecret
But using them to incite people to hatred.  I am not saying this is intentional - but that is the impact of those words.
Which is exactly the problem. It’s not the fault of those calling out racism that the people they are talking to can’t tell the difference between hateful speech and being called out for hateful speech.

I understand that people are far too loose with the word and many people being called racist are really not, but to pretend these two things are the same is absurd.

One person doing the wrong thing does not ipso facto translate to a generalisation to every conservative.
You do know what an example is right?

Laws are quite different over here.  We don't have free speech. We have laws against Hate speech. However hate speech in our laws is defined by the Left and only relates to things that anti-progressive.
I don’t know anything about Australian politics so I am only speaking from an American point of view. I made clear in the OP that I was referring to speech which leads to violence. I’m not talking about anything else. I am also not talking about laws. This is a cultural issue where the right claims the left is trying to silence them, the US would not allow government officials to engage in this which is part of why I take no issue with what’s going on here.

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@thett3
See post #32, forgot to tag you
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@Double_R
no.
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@thett3
Theory about conservatives: they are just shitty people who are blinded by tribalism 

Saved everyone a read. 

Thanks

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@Double_R
"Hate speech" is just a buzzword to silence things that the current political climate deems "edgy, politically incorrect, or offensive." 

Really, what is hate speech to you? Why do you think one side engages in it more than the other?

I don't know why it can't be bipartisan that corporatized internet is placing severe restrictions on freedom of speech online.
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@thett3
Theory about conservatives: they are just shitty people who are blinded by tribalism 


Saved everyone a read. 


You need to establish a definition of “hate speech”, secure agreement that this should be bannable, and then provide empirical evidence that one side is consistently engaged in it more, otherwise your position is not worth of serious consideration 
^^^

Answered the post better than I could have. 
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@Dr.Franklin
Can you please paraphrase what I just said to you, because I don’t think you read a word of it.
no.
Yeah, I didn’t think so.
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Really, what is hate speech to you? Why do you think one side engages in it more than the other?
From the OP:

This is about cracking down on hate speech and in particular, speech that can lead to or incite violence, or misinformation that is literally killing people.
As far as whether one side engages in it more than the other, can you give me examples of the left’s hate speech? Let me guess… anti racism?
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@Double_R
if you cant understand it then thats not my problem
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@Tradesecret
Yet, I think the censure of these items will cause more harm in the community - because when the Government - the Left censures anyone - it tends to not stop it, but to force it underground where it grows and grows.   

Banning things - prohibiting things is not the answer or solution.   Yes, it sends a message. But not one that will do good. One that says - We are stronger than you - and we will beat you to pulp if you disagree. 
Throughout history there was one tiny period in terms of world/human history, post world war 2 and pre cold war where this really was a thing at all to genuinely exist and occur.

Before that and even alongside it in Fascist nations as well as even most Sharia nations, it has consistently been the Right-Wing conservative imperialists who have had this ethos and modus operandi.

Go ahead, find me proof otherwise.
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@Dr.Franklin
I understood your argument perfectly well, but instead of telling you what a stupid argument it is I decided to pretend for a moment that I’m the one who didn’t understand so that you could enlighten me. Instead you gave me exactly what I knew you would… nothing.
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@Double_R
The left tries to censor social policy discussions. Its their way or the highway. The left doesn't care about fiscal policy, just print more money. If I oppose gay marriage,  I am a hater, if I oppose BLM and Antifa I am a hater, Blah, Blah Blah. The thing the left and the right need to concern themselves with are the people who just want to be left alone.  They will all regret the day when they push them to get involved. Think things are bad now? Wait till they stand up and fight.

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@sadolite
If you just want to be left alone then why are you offering your political opinions?
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@Double_R
Having an opinion and using the gun barrel of govt to shove it down your throat are two entirely different things
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@sadolite
It's fine, the love affair of the Marxist left with Washington DC authoritarianism is being put to the test with the next 3 years of Biden.

Let's see how it shakes out.
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@Double_R
of course lol
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@sadolite
Having an opinion and using the gun barrel of govt to shove it down your throat are two entirely different things
And where is the latter happening?
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@Double_R
Really? How about Gay marriage for starters. I could make a list a mile long and so could you. You just want to argue the obvious for the sake of argument.
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@sadolite
Shoving it down your throat for starters in a Gay marriage.

Otherwise known as foreplay.


I think that Lesbians just dive straight into the main course.


Is this really theoretical conservatism?


And a mile....That's one heck of a list.
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@zedvictor4
What are you talking about? What you said makes no sense.
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@sadolite
How about Gay marriage for starters.
You implied that some are using the "gun barrel of govt" to shove their opinions down others throats. There is nothing about gay marriage that fits into your narrative. Do you have anything that does?

You just want to argue the obvious for the sake of argument
No, I'm pushing back against what you think is obvious that I find to be nonsense, and doing so with the (pessimistic) hope at least some progress can be made on our differences. This is a debate site. That's literally the point.

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@Double_R
"There is nothing about gay marriage that fits into your narrative." Uh I don't remember having any say in the matter. 9 people in govt decided (The gun barrel of govt). You will be persecuted and your life destroyed by govt if you try to oppose it. Just ask anybody who owns a business who refused to cow tow.

Another example. Public schools. Public schools don't give a shit what people think is being taught to our children. They teach the most disgusting perverted shit imaginable. They are not schools they are indoctrination camps. Parents have no say. If they do say anything they are thrown out. (GUN barrel of govt)

Giving my tax dollars to people and things that are abhorrently immoral, illegal, perverted, unethical.  I can go on and on. But hey its all nonsense. Worship the almighty all knowing govt.




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@Double_R
Starting with the culture wars - and almost every right wing election strategy since has been to try and find wedge issues to outrage people - and as of 2004, just their base. 

However you need more outrage for the same effect, which is why it was “they want a big government, which is ineffective” in 1994, and “the Radicals democrats want to impose socialism destroy the country and take away your freedom”

The way they do this, is by starting off with gross misrepresentation of the truth; pushing it through an amplified echo chamber that drives the issue to more extreme nonsense; which then poisons the actual discussion - to which then conservatives then point to as evidence that people are being silenced.

In general, on stuff like this, the right wing is correct about maybe 20% of stuff; but uses that to declare they are right about everything. This contrasts on the left, where what they’re doing is maybe 80% justified; which they use to ignore the remaining 20%.

That’s the main problem. The right wing tends to use some real issue as in order to push the lie; whereas the left tends to push the truth to gloss over the real issues.


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@sadolite
You will be persecuted and your life destroyed by govt if you try to oppose it. Just ask anybody who owns a business who refused to cow tow.
Can you give me an article that shows a business that was ordered to be closed by the government for opposing gay marriage? Honest question.