the fuck up, does prove that concise statements, do not make somebody town, but they do not prove the opposite.
Comedians Mafia DP1
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@Wylted
Where will smith says “never met you before in life” . restating the same thing twice, we see poly do the same self conscious behavior. He susses drlebronsky and then adds in the moment. Obviously it is in the moment, why would we assume he was talking about another moment?Next sentence he says, just knowing his meta, he does tend to claim without thinking. He basically double states his point. His meta being the point and the rewording of it as “He tends to do”. Next he stretches out his doubling of the same point to 2 sentences, those are a little more abstract, but the concept holds. What surprises poly is that drlebronsky did not character claim, then he follows it up by saying “because he would usually full claim” .. Well, yes poly. We know that he normally does something different, because otherwise why would it surprise you?
I read your doc and I’m definitely not convinced. People like me need help to understand things because it’s not clear half of the time. I personally always repeat things because it’s a good rhetorical strategy.
If you’re right, I’ll congratulate you but I just don’t see it. I’d probably post the same thing.
What is your read on Bron?
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@Wylted
So you still scum read him, despite the fact that you clearly just demonstrated that he has done both this behavior and a far more confident behavior in two separate games where he was scum? Honestly, this looks more like you're just critiquing his language at this point. Being repetitious with his sentences doesn't make him scum, dude, and you're certainly not going to convince many people with that kind of argument. If you want to continue tunneling him under the hopes that you're right, be my guest, but it's a waste of time at this stage.
And yes, I figured one of the main reasons you were scum reading him was that, in using uncertainties in his statements, he was hedging. I suppose I was wrong on that front, though that honestly seems like a far better reason to sus someone than the amount of fluff they put into their sentences.
the two verbose statements you provided are still to the point t and I feel like don't have any fluff in them. They don't do the "first time ever in life" thing.
The long analysis and bickering between WF and Wylted seems to be detering from the progressing the game. Whiteflame tends to respond shorter while Wylted is falling victim to his own theory and derailing thread to shift focus
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@ILikePie5
I think Bron is town. What is the case against him? That he didn’t character claim but otherwise does exactly what he always does as town,
I don't get it.
I think poly is scum and I am considering it with whiteflame. I just have a hard time believing whiteflame would defend poly here if they were scum buddies. So the defense of scum seems town, but some of whiteflames other behaviors seem slightly scummy. For example his nastiness towards gp and telling me I earned time off in a smart ass statement.
I'm not offended, the statement is harmless, but it is out of character for whiteflame, and I know that sometimes attaching a label to yourself such as "scum" could make a lot of people just behaviorally more mean.
I have to either think something is going g on with whiteflame personally to make him nastier right now or that whiteflame has a ton of balls and is doing what the opposite of most scum do, and fiercely defend his scum buddy.
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@drlebronski
Still, it is not smart to claim because by POE, mafia have a better chance of killing a power role that could help town in this game. Sure you're role is useless, but claiming it earlier is just a detriment to the town as a whole
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@Wylted
I don't buy it, dude. I really don't, and at this point, this is starting to look desperate. Even if you end up being correct, this is the definition of tunneling and it's a huge waste of time. This isn't behavioral analysis anymore, it's English class, and it's just not convincing. Your commitment is admirable, but I'm not going with you on this. It's putting too much emphasis on the phrasing in a single post with too little reason why it matters. If you have something new to add, go for it, but this explanation has gotten so nitpicky that it's lost all meaning in the context of the game for me.
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@Vader
this is the second time you have just plain lied about me or spoke something wrong for some reason, this game.
I am not falling victim to my theory and my theory is correct. Maybe I need to work on how I word it, but poly is scum. This is not one of those weaker scum tells, but one highly indicative of being scum.
Seriously what happened to behavioral analysis. Tells exist. You can catch scum through knowing some basic psychology, and yet this is like one of those logic games to you guys. Poly is scum
Pressure poly and the seems will start coming apart
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@whiteflame
until you actually show you are comprehending what I am actually trying to get across, I am not going to allow you to dismiss it.
I'm not merely talking about hedging or verbosity or confidence. Lack of confidence in a post is not the same as self conscious behavior.
Both people with high and low confidence can display self conscious behavior of this variety and so can people who hedge and don't hedge. You are conflating a few things, and it's upsetting.
I hate when people cannot grasp the point I am trying to make. I am trying to bridge the gap between thought and words here. I have a deep inner monologue, but I also have a type of inner vision that connects a lot of things.
I am open to the possibility of being wrong, but you are still arguing against a strawman.
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@Wylted
I understand your point. I keep trying to attribute better points to you, and you keep settling back into this one, which wasn’t convincing to begin with. I understand that you see his fluffing of his sentences as self-conscious behavior and you think that only scum would do that. I disagreed when you said it initially. I disagree now, and now it’s also apparent that there isn’t a history of this that indicates that he is scum, which was also a point I’ve made several times.
Just to clarify, I’m not saying that Poly isn’t scum. I haven’t seen enough from him to know. All I know is that this, as a reason for sussing him at all but especially as a reason for saying that you are absolutely certain that he is scum, doesn’t make sense to me. You’re clearly not recruiting people to your view on this. I think it’s a waste of time, and I’m done addressing it.
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@Wylted
I think Bron is town. What is the case against him? That he didn’t character claim but otherwise does exactly what he always does as town,
It’s the fact he doesn’t claim without pressure cause we’ve advised him multiple times to not claim unless there’s pressure
I don't get it.I think poly is scum and I am considering it with whiteflame. I just have a hard time believing whiteflame would defend poly here if they were scum buddies. So the defense of scum seems town, but some of whiteflames other behaviors seem slightly scummy. For example his nastiness towards gp and telling me I earned time off in a smart ass statement.
I’m null on both at the moment. We only have two claims and that’s enough for the moment, the two being GP and Bron.
I'm not offended, the statement is harmless, but it is out of character for whiteflame, and I know that sometimes attaching a label to yourself such as "scum" could make a lot of people just behaviorally more mean.I have to either think something is going g on with whiteflame personally to make him nastier right now or that whiteflame has a ton of balls and is doing what the opposite of most scum do, and fiercely defend his scum buddy.
Well if one of em flips scum in the future, we have a place to look at. Scum still don’t know exact power roles. Still 5 people without claims assuming scum isn’t among Bron and GP.
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@Wylted
No because you inherit reasoning is flawed and is distracting from town due to tunnel visioning poly off your ideology and claiming it as a scum slip when it isn't. Have your opinion, but you are flooding the DP with this shit and it's distracting from actual behavioral analysis. And the first thing I said was true. You sus poly 1/2 the time and led to their mislynch off a redirect I made to frame him.
Why did Adele cross the road? To say hello from the other side.
Polyglot- 2 /5- wylted, greyparrot
Supadudz- 1/ 5- iLikePie5
Speedrace- 1 /5 -Drlebronski
Drlebrokski- 1 /5- speedrace
Wylted- 1 /5- whiteflame
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@whiteflame
Just to clarify, I’m not saying that Poly isn’t scum. I haven’t seen enough from him to know. All I know is that this, as a reason for sussing him at all but especially as a reason for saying that you are absolutely certain that he is scum, doesn’t make sense to me. You’re clearly not recruiting people to your view on this. I think it’s a waste of time, and I’m done addressing it
That's plain stupid. It is an attribute he has only used as scum, beyond that it is a universal scum tell. That means when you see it, it is almost certain a particular person is scum.
I have literally never seen somebody use it, who wasn't scum. It's an unconscious tell. I can imagine you sitting at a poker table now and you see somebody forcefully shove their chips in the center and stare at you hard, daring you to call, and your response be to fold. Your reasoning being that "trying to intimidate somebody out of a pot, might mean he actually has a hand".
Look some things are universal. When somebody tries to intimidate you out of a hand in poker, it means they have a shit hand. If their hand was good, the last thing they would want to do, is intimidate you into not giving them more money.
When somebody is fluffing, by double speak particularly, it is a scum tell. You can try to equate fluff like
"I am really worried that, if we hammered the person could turn out to be town. That would suck a lot"
And fluff like poly is doing like
"Hammering a town player here, would leave us with one less town player, so we shouldn't risk it"
If you can't see the difference in the stretched out sentences above than I can't help you. It isn't a grammar lesson, it isn't about hedging which is also a scum tell, but a less reliable one. It isn't about over explaining. It isn't about being detailed or rambling on.
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@Vader
No because you inherit reasoning is flawed
Nope, it isn't. Behavioral tells are derived from textual analysis for the most part, especially in dp1.
is distracting from town due to tunnel visioning poly
Tunneling is only bad if you are wrong. You can usually tell when you went overboard with tunneling, because you start to engage in confirmation bias. Seeing every action as a scum tell. I'm focusing on one piece of evidence that everyone has either failed to grasp or has grasped it and thinks that sort of self conscious behavior is somehow not indicative of scum, even though nobody can show one instance of poly exhibiting the behavior as town.
Have your opinion, but you are flooding the DP with this shit and it's distracting from actual behavioral analysis.
That is behavioral analysis. You look at behaviors and attribute motives to them. He is displaying a behavior and you can't provide a reason as to why he would have that behavior, beyond the obvious.
You sus poly 1/2 the time and led to their mislynch off a redirect I made to frame him.
The last 2 games I played with him, he was literally scum. I don't recall a redirected guilty on him. Perhaps there was and it was prior to Mylo and he was on my list of potential scum, so I needed it narrowed down. If you framed somebody prior to Mylo and it worked, good it should. If you think when we shift from the portion of the game where we narrow our list, to the portion of the game where we need to get it right, that I would have lynched him based off of an investigation, you are wrong. It hasn't nor ever will happen.
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@Wylted
Say what you want, Wylted, but what stands out a lot more than a couple of supposedly fluffed sentences is your behavior in this DP. I can’t recall a time when you’ve put this much work into pushing a lynch. I’m honestly having a hard time thinking of an instance where you were this active, aside from when you were fake claiming PRs in later DPs. Pushing a lynch this hard over something this small looks pretty unusual to me, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen town do it before (excepting some instances with Elm, who always seemed to find minor out-of-game reasons to sus people). Meanwhile, I’m pretty sure I’ve seen people post the kinds of sentences that you’re sussing as town. He certainly isn’t the first one to display self-conscious behaviors or repeat themselves within a post. I’m not going to scour every single DP1 of the previous games to find an example because I already feel as though I’ve wasted enough time digging into this with you.
If Poly is scum, then this won’t be the only scum tell you’ll find as the game continues, but if this is all you’re going to focus on during this DP, then you’re providing no room to find other behavioral tells from other players. This is eating up all of our attention. Maybe your tunneling will be justified at some point, but it sure as hell isn’t if you can’t get anyone to vote with you despite all this work.
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@whiteflame
I was doing it before my last account was banned dp1. I called out both scum and everyone ignored me and a 2 dp game actually went to lylo because I was ignored.
There was a game where Danielle and magic were caught DP1 through similar analysis as that. I pushed them hard all game, starting at dp1. Everyone ignored me. They said similar shit about my reasoning. I was kept alive until the very end because Danielle is a sadist who likes torturing people and town lost that game.
I can recall games where I pushed this hard dp1. I can't remember games where I am wrong when pushing this hard.
I forget my user name but the first game mentioned had David and pie as scum
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@Wylted
You are over analyzing a sentence and it’s definitely a waste of time for the day phase. Try to get better reads.
All in all I expected this behavior from you because you do tend to have some pretty radical beliefs about who is scum, such as killing every Miller that claims in DP1.
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@Wylted
I’d like to see those games so that I can compare your behaviors in them to what you’re doing now.
Just because you figured out who scum was in a different game early on with a clearly different set of circumstances clearly doesn’t mean that you’ve done that here, or that if you had, you were any better at conveying that to town and leading lynches to that effect. You may be right, but none of us are buying your reasoning. That’s your problem here. That’s what is making this a waste of time.
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@Polyglot
You are over analyzing a sentence and it’s definitely a waste of time for the day phase. Try to get better reads.
Maybe harping on it is a waste of time, but I am not over analyzing it.
If anything I haven't analyzed it enough. That is more likely the case if I am wrong and have been unable to come up with alternative explanations.
Judging from the fact you really don't contribute much in terms of reads, I don't think you should be telling me to get better reads. My reads are pretty good.
Your defensiveness here also doesn't bode well. Defensiveness is usually a scum trait. If you are legitimately town here, than you should be focused on finding out who is scum. The simplest way to get pressure of of yourself as town, is to find scum, so we can lynch that player instead. This also benefits town by helping us avoid mislynches.
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@whiteflame
I’d like to see those games so that I can compare your behaviors in them to what you’re doing now.
I'll do my best to find them. the first game mentioned should be easiest to find.
Just because you figured out who scum was in a different game early on with a clearly different set of circumstances clearly doesn’t mean that you’ve done that here,
You said you never seen me tunnel like this as town, which is why I brought up those examples. To a certain extent I think people should trust the reads of confirmed townies who have demonstrated an ability to be right a lot. For example I lynched pie based on a lunatic read I did not understand last game. He was dead, I didn't get his read, but I knew I could trust his read and his record of doing pretty well.
At least if I get NKed at some point, do the same here.
that if you had, you were any better at conveying that to town and leading lynches to that effect.
Yes.my ability to lead lynches is not that well, despite being shockingly accurate (though far from perfect).
I feel compelled to work on that now. I downloaded about 50 complete guides to mafia from good players and constantly review them. That is one part I have been ignoring because I always think reality is better than perception. To the point of discounting anything that is not reality altogether.
I guess that how I come across to others is apparently important, despite that being stupid. So I'll try to more collaboratively catch scum here instead of forcing a lynch down anyone's throat, even when I have a pretty good read on somebody based on the evidence (even if you can't comprehend the reasons behind that read).
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@whiteflame
I didn't exactly examine the read here, but this sort of thing is common for me, and is almost always ignored
explain not examine
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@Wylted
You also jumped off that lynch and onto Pie on the same page. What I'm noting is just how exhaustive you've been in explaining this particular choice for a lynch. You often do what you did in that game - you go with your gut and you don't provide much, if any, reasoning. This kind of analytical tunneling based on a single post is unusual for you.
Also, I'll note that emphasizing your reads after you were NK'd is something I did as scum in the last game. Not saying that there's no value in doing it, especially if there's decent justification for the read, but I'd take any effort to push a posthumous read with a big grain of salt.
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@whiteflame
Also, I'll note that emphasizing your reads after you were NK'd is something I did as scum in the last game
You were pretty transparent there as well, which is why I pmed him that it was extremely obvious you were the last scum, right after I was NKed. I won't exain why I knew that with 100% certainty, in case you are scum and make the same mistake here, but it was obvious from my angle, and given lunatic's frustration in sign up, he likely knew as well. Though his reasoning was analytical of the wagon and I was using linguistic analysis to determine it.
Him = poly
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@whiteflame
You also jumped off that lynch and onto Pie on the same page.
Well pie and Chris were both scum that game, and I said they were both scum with 100% confidence. Note the only other vote after that point was on supa and the vote was merely to gain compliance.
So I switched my vote from chris who was scum to pie who was also scum. I don't see that as any sort of failure.
I would like to hear more from Greyparrot and Evilgenius. They have been the least active so far this day phase.
Right now I have a null read on pretty much everyone and a slight scum read on drlebronski.