Public Trust and COVID-19

Author: Nyxified
Society
covid 19
Vaccine

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Total: 55
#31
dfss9788
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@Nyxified
You conveniently left out this part of what I said:

"Everyone has a higher chance of keeping the pandemic going forever the more that the virus spreads and mutates until the effectiveness of mRNA vaccines becomes slim to nil."
If you're boxing and your opponent has quadriplegia, he's going to drop to the floor and you will win despite having done nothing. Your point must be strong enough to stand on its own two legs to be worthy of being addressed. The correct response to shotgun argumentation is to ignore such things.

the amount that I am safe is dependent on the choice of others to be vaccinated.
It's much more so dependent on your choice to become vaccinated. The data suggest that seasonal flu is 5 times more of a risk than a breakthrough COVID-19 infection. And your profile says you were born in 2004? OK so your risk is like nothing, even without the vaccine. If you were older then it would be different.

What of children who have anti-vax parents? Those who can't get the vaccine yet? Those who work 3 jobs and can't afford a day off? We can't simply say "It's your fault you didn't get vaccinated lol. You took the risk" especially when, and I want to stress this, people who are vaccinated can still be infected and have life-long damage.
Negligible hypotheticals.



#32
Greyparrot
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@Nyxified
Again, I don't mean to say this is fact.

It isn't. A great many vaccinated people are testing positive as carriers with no outward symptoms.
#33
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@dfss9788
What of children who have anti-vax parents? 

What about them? 

On the high end of the estimation is 400 deaths in the died with, or from Covid -19. On the low end of estimates is less than 50 deaths.

Out of 73 MILLION children....nearly all of them exposed at some point to the virus.
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#34
Nyxified
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@dfss9788
Your continued choice to unreasonably dismiss what I said without explanation rather than clash with any of what I said leads me to believe you're not interested in discussion as much as you are with feeling like you're right. I won't continue to engage with you.

All the best.
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#35
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@Greyparrot
I don't disagree. The source I gave talks about how vaccinated people transmit COVID-19 less.

The existence of asymptomatic cases seems irrelevant in this regard.
#36
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@Nyxified
vaccinated people transmit COVID-19 less.
Even if this was the case, that still means you can't keep the non-vaccinated "safe"

Only at "less risk" (to whatever insignificant degree that may be) of catching the virus sooner rather than later.
#37
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@Nyxified
You conveniently left out this part of what I said:

It's much more so dependent on your choice to become vaccinated. The data suggest that seasonal flu is 5 times more of a risk than a breakthrough COVID-19 infection. And your profile says you were born in 2004? OK so your risk is like nothing, even without the vaccine. If you were older then it would be different.
#38
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@Greyparrot
Why should I trust a government that won't publicly say being fat puts you at great risk of dying from Covid?


Obesity increases the risk for severe COVID-19–associated illness.

What is added by this report?

Among 148,494 U.S. adults with COVID-19, a nonlinear relationship was found between body mass index (BMI) and COVID-19 severity, with lowest risks at BMIs near the threshold between healthy weight and overweight in most instances, then increasing with higher BMI. Overweight and obesity were risk factors for invasive mechanical ventilation. Obesity was a risk factor for hospitalization and death, particularly among adults aged <65 years.

Overweight and obesity
Overweight (defined as a body mass index (BMI) > 25 kg/m2 but < 30 kg/m2), obesity (BMI ≥30 kg/m2 but < 40 kg/m2), or severe obesity (BMI of ≥40 kg/m2), can make you more likely to get severely ill from COVID-19.  The risk of severe COVID-19 illness increases sharply with elevated BMI.


#39
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@Athias
The likelihood that a person has not come into contact of Covid-19 at some time in the past 2 years is outrageously low.
Exactly. And the prospects that one has been exposed to this virus but has yet to develop an immune response in almost two years is also outrageous. 
Texas just yesterday ordered two trucks from FEMA to store dead bodies because the morgues are full. The entire state of Alabama has no ICU beds left. And then there’s Florida…
#40
Wylted
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 Those who would trade freedom for security 
deserve neither
#41
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@Double_R
That's nice. 

now show me anything said by Biden, Psaki, or Fauci over the past 520 days of "slowing the spread"

Anything.
#42
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@Double_R
Texas just yesterday ordered two trucks from FEMA to store dead bodies because the morgues are full. The entire state of Alabama has no ICU beds left. And then there’s Florida…
And what is this intended to illustrate?



#43
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@Athias
And what is this intended to illustrate?

When faced with irrefutable statistics regarding dubious policies on worldwide populations, the mad partisan hack's last refuge is to hide behind isolated fringe outliers.

#44
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@Greyparrot
now show me anything said by Biden, Psaki, or Fauci over the past 520 days of "slowing the spread"
Why? You said you don’t trust the government because they won’t say fat people are at greater risk of Covid. So here are multiple examples of the government saying fat people are at greater risk of Covid. The end right? No, of course not. Now you want to single out individuals within the government and claim your distrust is valid because they haven’t personally opined on the subject. What nonsense.

I don’t care what Biden or Psaki has said, and more importantly a certainly don’t care about what they haven’t said. I care about science.

BTW just out of curiosity, do you trust Donald Trump? If yes, please show me his excerpt talking about fat people being at greater risk due to Covid.

#45
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@Athias
And what is this intended to illustrate?
You claimed the idea that anyone out there has not by now developed an immune response to Covid to be outrageous. So do you not find the facts of what we are seeing right now to be problematic?
#46
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@Greyparrot
The entire states of Texas, Florida, and Alabama are outliers? Wow, I’d hate to see what an outbreak would look like.
#47
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@Double_R
Why? You said you don’t trust the government because they won’t say fat people are at greater risk of Covid. So here are multiple examples of the government saying fat people are at greater risk of Covid. The end right? No, of course not. Now you want to single out individuals within the government and claim your distrust is valid because they haven’t personally opined on the subject. What nonsense.

So you pull out of your ass some obscure statement from the CDC that absolutely nobody in state media NOR ANYONE ELSE IN A POSITION OF GOVERNMENT AUTHORITY reported on...also posted March 2021 when this was known way back in may of 2020.

And then claim "government" cares about you. That's the bar you want to set for government?

Talk about nonsense.

Again, if you were one of the 90% obese people that died from Covid19 and you trusted government to let you know you were at risk from dying, then you are responsible for killing yourself through your own stupidity, willful ignorance, and naivety.

If you were one of the 30,000 dead in New York retirement homes because you "trusted government" to keep you safe from Covid-19
Then you are 100% responsible for your own death.

If you are one of the 10,000+ Americans about to die in Afghanistan....see the pattern?
#48
Athias
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@Double_R
You claimed the idea that anyone out there has not by now developed an immune response to Covid to be outrageous. So do you not find the facts of what we are seeing right now to be problematic?
I thought as much. Here, my statement from before:

The epidimicity of this virus would suggest that everyone has been exposed. That is, if one hasn't succumbed to it, one has already developed a response to it.
So how does your response contradict what I've stated?
#49
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So you pull out of your ass some obscure statement from the CDC that absolutely nobody in state media NOR ANYONE ELSE IN A POSITION OF GOVERNMENT AUTHORITY reported on
Wow.

This is the United States. We don’t have state media.

The CDC is the government authority that handles this. Everyone else gets their information from them, so it’s not any other authority’s responsibility to report on it. What they tell you is to listen to the science. That’s the science.

The CDC sets the government’s position. Can you think of anyone in government that contradicted the CDC? Oh yeah that’s right, Trump, by saying this would all disappear. But you seem to have no issue with that.

also posted March 2021 when this was known way back in may of 2020.
My god dude you are lazy. Those were the first examples that popped up in my Google search. Here’s another, I had to scroll aaaaaaalll the way to about half way down the page to get to this one…

CDC: Obesity among conditions that up risk of severe COVID-19 disease

Alyson Sulaski Wyckoff, Associate Editor
June 26, 2020
Editor's note:For the latest news on COVID-19, visithttps://www.aappublications.org/news/2020/01/28/coronavirus.

In a briefing Thursday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) updated its list of underlying conditions that may increase the risk of illness from COVID-19 and reminded the public to take precautions as the Fourth of July holiday approaches.

Again, if you were one of the 90% obese people that died from Covid19 and you trusted government to let you know you were at risk from dying, then you are responsible for killing yourself through your own stupidity, willful ignorance, and naivety.

If you were one of the 30,000 dead in New York retirement homes because you "trusted government" to keep you safe from Covid-19
Then you are 100% responsible for your own death.
You have an amazingly cartoonish view of how the world works. Who exactly do you think is sitting around saying “I know this Covid is coming around, but I’ll be safe cause the US government is on my side!”? 

No obese person turns on the news every night to see if the US President singles them out as being at risk of Covid, and then if they don’t say anything go “we’ll he didn’t say I’m at risk so I guess I can go to that party!”.

This just isn’t serious. And even if it were, does this sentiment also include Trump? I have yet to hear your thoughts on that.

And of course there’s the nursing home fiasco. No right wingers could ever get through a conversation about Covid without pointing out the scandal over a year ago at the very beginning of the pandemic before any policies were established, by one governor in one state whose own party would eventually ruin him out of town. But hey whatever makes you feel better I guess.

If you are one of the 10,000+ Americans about to die in Afghanistan....see the pattern?
Yes, every time someone dies in a situation the US government might have been able to prevent you put the blame for it squarely on the government and cartoonishly paint every person that died as some pathetic ignorant fool who just sat around doing nothing to help themselves waiting for the government to come save them.
#50
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The epidimicity of this virus would suggest that everyone has been exposed. That is, if one hasn't succumbed to it, one has already developed a response to it.
So how does your response contradict what I've stated?

That’s not the comment I responded to. This is:

The likelihood that a person has not come into contact of Covid-19 at some time in the past 2 years is outrageously low.
Exactly. And the prospects that one has been exposed to this virus but has yet to develop an immune response in almost two years is also outrageous.
“Exactly” - as in you doubling down on the idea that there’s hardly anyone left who hasn’t came into contact with Covid, and then talking about the prospect of those who have been exposed (which would be just about everyone) developing an immune response. If you add this all up, what you get is contradicted by the reality I laid out.

If that’s not what you meant that’s fine, you are free to correct it.
#51
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@Double_R
That’s not the comment I responded to. This is:

The likelihood that a person has not come into contact of Covid-19 at some time in the past 2 years is outrageously low.
Exactly. And the prospects that one has been exposed to this virus but has yet to develop an immune response in almost two years is also outrageous.
“Exactly” - as in you doubling down on the idea that there’s hardly anyone left who hasn’t came into contact with Covid, and then talking about the prospect of those who have been exposed (which would be just about everyone) developing an immune response. If you add this all up, what you get is contradicted by the reality I laid out.

If that’s not what you meant that’s fine, you are free to correct it.
There's nothing for me to "correct." The statement you cited was Greyparrot's direct response to the very statement to which I just made reference. The "reality" you laid out does not contradict this. Your interpretation is incorrect, not my "doubling down."

#52
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@Athias
You can’t respond to someone’s post with “exactly” and then claim you were not arguing what they were.

But whatever.
#53
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@Double_R
You can’t respond to someone’s post with “exactly” and then claim you were not arguing what they were.

But whatever.
Once again, Greyparrot's response was in direct response to mine. Greyparrot does not parrot other responses. If anything, his response was supplemental. You're attempting to elide that which was stated before, scrutinize that one line in a vacuum, and impute a strawman.
#54
Greyparrot
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@Athias
The point I was making was that when people in Authority like Biden and Fauci omit important truths, it's worse than lying. The public is directly harmed by those omissions.

At least there's a clear motive for lying.
#55
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Afghanistan is a concrete example of what happens when the government is put in charge of "welfare"