"White Supremacist" is a racial slur

Author: Mesmer

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Mesmer
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@Discipulus_Didicit
You didn't respond to any of this:

Not every whitey thinks that whities should be supreme over the non whites though. White supremacy is not a race, it is an ideology.
"We've been through this already, although my examples were probably not thorough enough, so I'll do better this time.

Let's take for example "cotton picker". Let's say a White American used to this describe an African American -- this is a racial slur. However, it's possible that this White American doesn't believe *all* African Americans are "cotton pickers", BUT "cotton picker" remains a racial slur regardless of that fact. Again, you don't have to think that all African Americans are "cotton pickers" for "cotton picker" to be a racial slur -- your qualification/standard of 'you have to think all people of that race are the slur' isn't valid."
Since this counters your standard for your argument that "white supremacist" didn't count as a racial slur, and now you've failed to address it, you've conceded the argument.

Thanks for implicitly agreeing that "white supremacist" is a racial slur.

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@Mesmer
What makes you say that the N word is a racial slur?
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@Mesmer
You've already conceded the argument with this statement because you described them as "white" people. If race had no bearing on this, then the (non-racial) slur would be "supremacist".
First of all, the term “white supremecist” combines two words. Therefore, in order to qualify under this term *both* of the words must apply. So instead of demonstrating your fragility  over the first word, look at the second… “spremecist”. Notice how the second word has nothing to do with your race but is rather an ideology. That’s the part you need to focus on explaining if you are really trying to stick to this argument.

Second, “white” in this phrase isn’t even referring to the race of the of the ideology holder. It’s referring to the ideology itself. White supremacy means you believe white people are ultimately the superior race. Nothing about this precludes that you must be white to hold this attitude, as bizarre as would be for a non-white person to think this way, hence the David Chappell skit.
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To demonstrate whether saying that a particular person wants whities to be supreme is a racial slur against all whities you must first explain what a racial slur is.

I have said that a racial slur is a slur against a race and you have declared that definition invalid but not presented one of your own that I have seen (it is possible I have missed it, if that is the case then point it out).

Discipulus_Didicit
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You've already conceded the argument with this statement because you described them as "white" people. If race had no bearing on this, then the (non-racial) slur would be "supremacist".
A white supremacist is a person that thinks whites should be supreme.

A racial slur is a slur against a race.

You and the CRT folk are making this out to be much more complicated than it actually is

What do you call a person that wants whities to be supreme over the non-whites?
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@Mesmer
Humans can be divided into sub-species (races): The Existence of Race – The Alternative Hypothesis . I've posted this argument to you multiple times and you've failed to address it every time.
Seems to contradict,

Race =/= "racism". 
Please explain.
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@Mesmer
People should only be self-described.

Instead of trying to force a category on someone, you should ASK THEM if they identify with some proposed generalized type and or label.

Forcing a category on someone (that they do not personally self-describe as) is almost always an AD HOMINEM ATTACK.
If you insist that labels can be used to people who self-describe, you'll get more grifters and liars who pretend to be something they're not. For example, if you don't go to church, and you don't believe in God, and you don't know anything about the Bible, chances are you're not a Christian, even if you describe yourself as such.
I'm not sure that's a catastrophic problem.
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@Mesmer
I agree that racial [skin-tone] discrimination has existed long before our time, and the overwhelming majority of humans don't discriminate due to loci/SNP data collections. I'm just arguing that these people are inadvertently correct about different people being genetically different [wtf], sometimes to the point of being a different race.
Why do you think it's worth mentioning and or worth researching whether or not specific genetic markers GENERALLY overlap with SOME forms of discrimination ?

What is the actual difference between the HUTU and TUTSI tribes ?

The TUTSI are taller and more elegant.

IT WAS THE BELGIANS THAT CREATED THE DIVISION.

IT WAS THE BELGIANS THAT CREATED THE DIVISION.

How ?

They picked people, those with thinner noses and lighter skin, they used to measure the width of people's noses.

The BELGIANS used the TUTSI to run the country.

And then when they left, they left the power to the HUTU.

And of course the HUTU took revenge on the "elite" TUTSI for years of repression.

Am I telling the truth Paul ?

Yes, unfortunately.

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@Double_R
Show me a black Person who is not subject to the N word. I’ll wait.
Black people in Africa?

Descendants of black slave owners?
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@ILikePie5
Great. Now explain how black people who came over from Africa never hear themselves being called the n word.
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@Double_R
Great. Now explain how black people who came over from Africa never hear themselves being called the n word.
Black people use the N word towards black people more than any other race. 

And I was referring to people living in Africa. They don’t get called the N word. You should show me. I did. Have a nice day lol
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@ILikePie5
they have a K-word instead.

Kaf**r.

research it.
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@Mesmer
Let's take for example "cotton picker". Let's say a White American used to this describe an African American -- this is a racial slur. However, it's possible that this White American doesn't believe *all* African Americans are "cotton pickers", BUT "cotton picker" remains a racial slur regardless of that fact. Again, you don't have to think that all African Americans are "cotton pickers" for "cotton picker" to be a racial slur -- your qualification/standard of 'you have to think all people of that race are the slur' isn't valid."
The slur in cotton picker comes from its historical connotation. What you fail to understand is that not all black people were forced to pick cotton, but those who were forced to pick cotton were so because they were black, so this absolutely was about their race.

White supremecists are not supremecists because they are white, they’re supremecists because they’re ignorant, assholes, or both.
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@ILikePie5
Black people use the N word towards black people more than any other race. 
Do you seriously not understand the difference between nigga and nigger?

And I was referring to people living in Africa. They don’t get called the N word.
That’s because they don’t live with people who use the n word. Do you believe that a word is only a racial slur if it is used in every corner of the globe where that race exists?
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@Double_R
First of all, the term “white supremecist” combines two words. Therefore, in order to qualify under this term *both* of the words must apply. So instead of demonstrating your fragility  over the first word, look at the second… “spremecist”. Notice how the second word has nothing to do with your race but is rather an ideology. That’s the part you need to focus on explaining if you are really trying to stick to this argument.
The two words create a singular term. That's why you don't say "white and supremacist" -- two separate terms. Instead, you say "white supremacist" a singular. IF we were arguing about "white and supremacist", what you are saying here is correct, but we are arguing about the latter, so your distinction doesn't apply.

Second, “white” in this phrase isn’t even referring to the race of the of the ideology holder. It’s referring to the ideology itself. White supremacy means you believe white people are ultimately the superior race. Nothing about this precludes that you must be white to hold this attitude, as bizarre as would be for a non-white person to think this way, hence the David Chappell skit.
The term has non-literal meaning. For example, when we say 'it's raining cats and dogs', obviously that's non-literal. Let's explore the non-literal meaning to "white supremacist".

If it was just about ideology, then why is black nationalism not considered black supremacist, whilst white nationalism is considered white supremacism? How could whites wanting to form white groups, without any reference to supremacism, be considered to be supremacist, especially when blacks do the same and that's *not* considered supremacism? Why is the Hispanic 'La Raza' not considered Hispanic supremacy for forming Hispanic groups? Why is Chinese nationalism not considered Chinese supremacy? Why are white people being singled out as being supremacists for forming their own groups? Black nationalism - Wikipedia White nationalism - Wikipedia La Raza - Wikipedia Chinese nationalism - Wikipedia

If IQ researchers conclude that Asians/Jews have the highest IQ, why are they called white supremacists? Surely, if Lynn argues that Asians are doing best in IQ tests, why isn't Richard Lynn called an Asian supremacist? Richard Lynn on Race Differences in Intelligence - American Renaissance (amren.com) Richard Lynn - Wikipedia 

Similarly, why is J.P. Rushton called a "white supremacist" when his research argues Asians have larger cranial capacity, and thus higher IQ? jp rushton iq - Bing images J. Philippe Rushton - Wikipedia iq-race-brain-size-kamin-omari-rushton-personality-individual-differences-2000.pdf (philipperushton.net)

Why did Oromagi attempt to rebut Linda Gottfredson's work, which had nothing to do with race, as  "white supremacist?" Imgur: The magic of the Internet IQ is a Valid Metric (debateart.com) 

Using your literal definition, none of these scenarios make any sense, so the term "white supremacist" can't be a purely literal one. Sure, if someone is saying "white people are superior to everyone else", by all means does your literal definition apply, but not all usages of the word are using this literal definition, as seen above.

Instead, "white supremacist" is a non-literal racial attack against white people forming groups and conducting research. You racially slur white people when you imply there is something inherently wrong with them forming white groups. You racially slur people when you imply their research is wrong because of the color of their skin. Both of these are precisely what "white supremacist" sometimes does, hence white supremacist is a racial slur.
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@Double_R
The slur in cotton picker comes from its historical connotation. What you fail to understand is that not all black people were forced to pick cotton, but those who were forced to pick cotton were so because they were black, so this absolutely was about their race.

White supremecists are not supremecists because they are white, they’re supremecists because they’re ignorant, assholes, or both.
I'm not sure if you intentionally did this, but you've changed your argument to be the same as mine, and now you are framing your argument (which is mine) as the one I'm arguing against.

It's been my contention all along that you don't have to think *all* people of a certain race are a slur, in order for the slur to be a slur. Moreover, you don't have to think *all* white people are white supremacists, in order for white supremacist to be a slur.

So, there's no failure to understand because that has been my argument all along LOL.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I have said that a racial slur is a slur against a race and you have declared that definition invalid but not presented one of your own that I have seen (it is possible I have missed it, if that is the case then point it out).
I haven't declared it invalid. I said the standard which you argue from this is invalid, because you don't need to imply all black people are the n word in order for the n word to be a slur. "White Supremacist" is a racial slur (debateart.com) "White Supremacist" is a racial slur (debateart.com) . When you did support your definition of "racial slur" with "a slur against a race", I didn't attack it because I agreed with it.

white supremacist is a person that thinks whites should be supreme.

racial slur is a slur against a race.

You and the CRT folk are making this out to be much more complicated than it actually is

What do you call a person that wants whities to be supreme over the non-whites?
White supremacist has non-literal meaning which I addressed in the OP and more thoroughly here: ("The term has non-literal meaning. For example...":  "White Supremacist" is a racial slur (debateart.com) 
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@Mesmer
OXFORD:

su·prem·a·cist [noun]

  1. a person who believes that a particular group, especially one determined by race, religion, or sex, is superior and should therefore dominate society.
WIKIPEDIA:

Supremacism is "the belief that a certain group of people is superior to all others.  The supposed superior people can be defined by age, gender, race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, language, social class, ideology, nation, culture, or species, or belong to any other part of a particular population."

"White", in this context, is modifying the type of supremacist rather than modifying the supremacist's race.  You can and do have white supremacists who are black, male supremacists who are women, etc. I don't agree that the term white supremacist is typically used to characterize all white people, rather to indicate that subset of people who are deluded about the supremacy of whites.

If you are right that the popular use of the term is intentional abuse than how do we explain Trump's statement last Fall, "I condemn all white supremacists"  You're saying that the correct interpretation of Trump's statement was a slur against all white people?  How does that make any sense for Trump?  If yours was a normal or popular interpretation, then Trump would have been criticized for slurring white people.

FBI Director Wray testified under oath this spring that racially motivated violent extremism, specifically violent white supremacy, is the biggest chunk of the FBI’s domestic terrorism case portfolio. He also said white supremacists are responsible for the most lethal attacks over the last decade.  Clearly, Wray was not speaking of White people generally and he wasn't merely insulting some white people, Wray was using the FBI definition of White Supremacist extremists, which is defined as groups or individuals who facilitate or engage in acts of violence directed at the Federal Government, ethnic majorities or Jewish persons in support of their belief that Caucasians are intellectually and morally superior to other races.

Also there are people who openly advocate the superiority of European or Caucasian ancestry who have no reason to mind being called white supremacists as the most apt label.

Why did Oromagi attempt to rebut Linda Gottfredson's work, which had nothing to do with race, as  "white supremacist?" Imgur: The magic of the Internet IQ is a Valid Metric (debateart.com) 
  • My post shows 
    • I did not try to rebut Gottfredson.  In fact, Mesmer specifically asked me what I thought of his sources and I replied that his sources sucked.  One of several reasons given was that the SPLC condemns Gottfredson as white supremacist in ideology.
    • To say that those numbers had nothing to do with race is also false.  Gottfredson's public defense of those numbers was specifically racist in conclusion.
      • ”Although she prefers to stay further away from the spotlight than her more flamboyantly racist colleagues, Gottfredson gained some degree of notoriety at the national level with the publication of her 1994 Wall Street Journal op-ed, “Mainstream Science on Intelligence,” which was co-signed by 52 other scientists. “Mainstream Science” was Gottfredson’s contribution to the heated debate over the then-recent publication of Charles Murray and Richard Herrnstein’s The Bell Curve, which used arguments recycled from eugenicists, white supremacists, and neo-Nazis to claim that social inequality is caused by black genetic inferiority, especially in intelligence.
      • Gottfredson used “Mainstream Science” to make a variety of claims about the state of intelligence research and its relationship to racial policy. Among other things, Gottfredson stated that the intelligence of the average black adult in the United States was 85, one standard deviation below that of the average white adult. Two standard deviations, or IQ 70, is the general standard for mental retardation, which Gottfredson elsewhere ascribed to black Africans. According to Gottfredson, the difference between black Americans and black Africans would, presumably, be because “almost all Americans who identify themselves as black have white ancestors – the white admixture is about 20%.”
      • Whatever the quality of the evidence, one can't deny that claiming that it is the very nature of African blacks to be mentally retarded and that the only reason African-Americans enjoy better intelligence than Africans is due the benefit of white rape is a fairly white supremacist statement.  If Gottfredson thinks that the average black person is actually disabled in intelligence by definition than one can't really wonder if Gottfredson thinks that group can rule their own affairs.
      • Let's note that the DebateArt.com CODE of CONDUCT uses SPLC as the standard for evaluating hate groups.
        • Advocacy in favor of terrorism and/or violent extremism, especially as related to hate groups as generally defined by the SPLC, is likewise prohibited.
        • Generally yes, if the SPLC calls somebody a white supremacist, I'm going to feel free to use that term.  Not as an insult but as the most matter of fact way of describing aa long standing and sometimes popular ideology and political movement.
        • We get to feel however we like when we're called something like "white supremacist."  If you feel insulted, I think that's your prerogative. 
          • But feelings are aside from the question of accuracy.  White supremacist has a specific meaning, the meaning meant by Trump last fall, by Wray this Spring. 
            • If it is not accurate that one believes that white dominion is the way things ought to be, than simple denial seems more expedient than taking insult for sins not committed.
            • If it is accurate that one believes that white dominion is the way thing ought to be, than what's derogatory about the truth?


Double_R
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@Mesmer
IF we were arguing about "white and supremacist", what you are saying here is correct, but we are arguing about the latter, so your distinction doesn't apply.
Nonsense. Combining two words doesn’t create a whole new concept, it just combines the concepts within those two words.  If I gave you hot chocolate served cold, it’s not hot chocolate. Nor would it be hot chocolate if there was no chocolate. You need both for the phrase to apply. That’s English 101.

If it was just about ideology, then why is black nationalism not considered black supremacist, whilst white nationalism is considered white supremacism?
If a black person believes black people are the superior race then that by definition would make them a black supremecist. Which BTW, would not be a racial slur.

How could whites wanting to form white groups, without any reference to supremacism, be considered to be supremacist, especially when blacks do the same and that's *not* considered supremacism?
Because we live in a country dominated by white people. Black people forming an all black group is a response to their status as ethnic minorities and the discrimination that comes along with it. White people forming an all white group is a response to nothing.

If IQ researchers conclude that Asians/Jews have the highest IQ, why are they called white supremacists? Surely, if Lynn argues that Asians are doing best in IQ tests, why isn't Richard Lynn called an Asian supremacist?
Researching IQ scores is not “supremacy”. It’s the intent of the research that matters. IQ scores do not measure genetics or cognitive potential, they measure current ability. That ability can be cultivated and improved just like any other. It’s when one for example tries to use the research to justify inequality as a means to stop helping those in need that out crosses into suprematist territory.

Believing that one race is superior is the literal definition, but that’s not the focus of the phrase white supremecist. The focus is really more about entitlement. Any white person who tells a minority to go back to their country for example, I would argue is a white supremecist. What gives them the right to declare this “their country” to be telling someone else to leave it? What makes them think they are more entitled to this country than any other human being?

It’s that mentality that those who tend to use the phrase are pointing to. Jan 6th is another example. It is not credible to argue that the people who stormed the Capitol were doing so based on facts and reason. They did so because they couldn’t accept that the votes of people who don’t look like them were a legitimate catalyst to remove their President. The Capitol belonged to them and they had to take it back. That’s white supremacy.

So can this apply to other races? Of course it can. It’s just that the phrase black supremecist or Asian supremecist carries no connotation because it’s a useless thing to even talk about in a country dominated by white people.
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@Mesmer
I'm not sure if you intentionally did this, but you've changed your argument to be the same as mine, and now you are framing your argument (which is mine) as the one I'm arguing against.
You didn’t pay attention to a thing I said.

You argued that a word does not have to apply to everyone in a race in order to be a racial slur and used cotton picker as an example. I then went on to explain why you’re wrong. I wasn’t explaining why cotton picker doesn’t apply to all black people, I was explaining how it does. Once again, those who were forced to pick cotton were so because they were black. The term is an attempt to dehumanize the individual by reminding them of a time when they would have been reduced to less than a human being because of their skin color. That is entirely about their race.

It's been my contention all along that you don't have to think *all* people of a certain race are a slur, in order for the slur to be a slur. Moreover, you don't have to think *all* white people are white supremacists, in order for white supremacist to be a slur.
Read the title to your own thread; “White Supremacist" is a racial slur

Any word can be a slur to any one, if we’re talking about racial slurs then we’re talking about a slur directed at ones race. You cannot then argue that the word does not apply to others of that same race.
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@oromagi
OXFORD:

su·prem·a·cist [noun]

  1. a person who believes that a particular group, especially one determined by race, religion, or sex, is superior and should therefore dominate society.
WIKIPEDIA:

Supremacism is "the belief that a certain group of people is superior to all others.  The supposed superior people can be defined by age, gender, race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, language, social class, ideology, nation, culture, or species, or belong to any other part of a particular population."
A literal interpretation of "white supremacist" is not sufficient to explain its usage. Your definitions don't make sense without this non-literal meaning, especially when I've directly quoted you using this non-literal meaning (shown below):

"The term has non-literal meaning. For example, when we say 'it's raining cats and dogs', obviously that's non-literal. Let's explore the non-literal meaning to "white supremacist".

If it was just about ideology, then why is black nationalism not considered black supremacist, whilst white nationalism is considered white supremacism? How could whites wanting to form white groups, without any reference to supremacism, be considered to be supremacist, especially when blacks do the same and that's *not* considered supremacism? Why is the Hispanic 'La Raza' not considered Hispanic supremacy for forming Hispanic groups? Why is Chinese nationalism not considered Chinese supremacy? Why are white people being singled out as being supremacists for forming their own groups? Black nationalism - Wikipedia White nationalism - Wikipedia La Raza - Wikipedia Chinese nationalism - Wikipedia

If IQ researchers conclude that Asians/Jews have the highest IQ, why are they called white supremacists? Surely, if Lynn argues that Asians are doing best in IQ tests, why isn't Richard Lynn called an Asian supremacist? Richard Lynn on Race Differences in Intelligence - American Renaissance (amren.com) Richard Lynn - Wikipedia 

Similarly, why is J.P. Rushton called a "white supremacist" when his research argues Asians have larger cranial capacity, and thus higher IQ? jp rushton iq - Bing images J. Philippe Rushton - Wikipedia iq-race-brain-size-kamin-omari-rushton-personality-individual-differences-2000.pdf (philipperushton.net)

Why did Oromagi attempt to rebut Linda Gottfredson's work, which had nothing to do with race, as  "white supremacist?" Imgur: The magic of the Internet IQ is a Valid Metric (debateart.com) 

Using your literal definition, none of these scenarios make any sense, so the term "white supremacist" can't be a purely literal one. Sure, if someone is saying "white people are superior to everyone else", by all means does your literal definition apply, but not all usages of the word are using this literal definition, as seen above.

Instead, "white supremacist" is a non-literal racial attack against white people forming groups and conducting research. You racially slur white people when you imply there is something inherently wrong with them forming white groups. You racially slur people when you imply their research is wrong because of the color of their skin. Both of these are precisely what "white supremacist" sometimes does, hence white supremacist is a racial slur."

"White", in this context, is modifying the type of supremacist rather than modifying the supremacist's race.  You can and do have white supremacists who are black, male supremacists who are women, etc. I don't agree that the term white supremacist is typically used to characterize all white people, rather to indicate that subset of people who are deluded about the supremacy of whites.
I agree that it is possible for a black person to be a white supremacist. I agree that "white supremacist" doesn't modify a person's race. However, this doesn't address the non-literal meaning wherein white people are slurred on their ability to form groups and conduct research. Again, you yourself have engaged in this non-literal meaning by calling research on IQ, something that has nothing to do with white superiority, as "white supremacist" (quoted above).

If you are right that the popular use of the term is intentional abuse than how do we explain Trump's statement last Fall, "I condemn all white supremacists"  You're saying that the correct interpretation of Trump's statement was a slur against all white people?  How does that make any sense for Trump?  If yours was a normal or popular interpretation, then Trump would have been criticized for slurring white people.
Yes, white supremacist is a racial slur, regardless of who says it, even if that person is Trump.

White people have become so disenfranchised in western countries, and also plagued by white people who have white out-group bias (as in they actively discriminate against their own race), that speaking out against injustices against white people is considered "racist" or "bigoted". It's super sinister when you consider that all the false narratives and slurs levelled against whites CANNOT be talked about whites because they would be "racist" to do so. In other words, anti-white slurs rhetoric isn't popular at all with white people, they're just scared of speaking up and getting slammed by anti-white extremists.

FBI Director Wray testified under oath this spring that racially motivated violent extremism, specifically violent white supremacy, is the biggest chunk of the FBI’s domestic terrorism case portfolio. [...] groups or individuals who facilitate or engage in acts of violence directed at the Federal Government, ethnic majorities or Jewish persons in support of their belief that Caucasians are intellectually and morally superior to other races.
I've got no problem with white terrorists who shoot up mosques or schools because they're non-white being labelled as "white supremacists" and "violent extremists". I take GREAT ISSUE when YOU label mere research on IQ as "white supremacist", because you're lumping genuinely dangerous people in with people conducting racially impartial research. Again, if IQ was about "white supremacy", then why do these "white supremacists" consistently find that Jewish and Asian people have HIGHER IQ than whites? Why are they finding that Jews and Asians are superior if they believe that whites are? That makes ZERO sense.

Yet people like you continue to slur these white researchers as "white supremacist" even when their research shows that whites AREN'T the best/superior to Asians and Jews, in regards to IQ.

Also there are people who openly advocate the superiority of European or Caucasian ancestry who have no reason to mind being called white supremacists as the most apt label.
These people are called useful idiots.

Why did Oromagi attempt to rebut Linda Gottfredson's work, which had nothing to do with race, as  "white supremacist?" Imgur: The magic of the Internet IQ is a Valid Metric (debateart.com) 
The link wasn't wrong. You deleted the 2nd link, probably accidentally "White Supremacist" is a racial slur (debateart.com) :

"Why did Oromagi attempt to rebut Linda Gottfredson's work, which had nothing to do with race, as  "white supremacist?" Imgur: The magic of the Internet IQ is a Valid Metric (debateart.com) "

But you correctly found the link that you deleted.

  • My post shows 
    • I did not try to rebut Gottfredson.  In fact, Mesmer specifically asked me what I thought of his sources and I replied that his sources sucked.  One of several reasons given was that the SPLC condemns Gottfredson as white supremacist in ideology.
I asked you if the arguments were wrong. You responded by implying the arguments were "white supremacist" and Ad hommed a whole bunch of people related to the field. Even if they were terrorists, pedophiles, Nazis or telemarketers, that is totally irrelevant to whether their argument is correct -- this is a pure example of Ad hom. And before you make the silly argument again that Ad hom is valid, I explained in detail why you were wrong on that: IQ is a Valid Metric (debateart.com) .

    • To say that those numbers had nothing to do with race is also false.  Gottfredson's public defense of those numbers was specifically racist in conclusion.
      • [quotes about what Gottfredson apparently said]
      • [more quotes about what Gottfredson apparently said]
If she actually said that African Americans were mentally retarded with 85 IQ (these quotes are unsourced), I would argue against that as being wrong (since as your quote says, the cutoff is 70). However, again, in that case, the argument is wrong herself, regardless of her character AND research. Again, arguing that IQ has certain correlate impact on life outcomes doesn't make you a "white supremacist" lol.

  • Whatever the quality of the evidence, one can't deny that claiming that it is the very nature of African blacks to be mentally retarded and that the only reason African-Americans enjoy better intelligence than Africans is due the benefit of white rape is a fairly white supremacist statement.  If Gottfredson thinks that the average black person is actually disabled in intelligence by definition than one can't really wonder if Gottfredson thinks that group can rule their own affairs.
You're not citing any of this with sources.

  • Let's note that the DebateArt.com CODE of CONDUCT uses SPLC as the standard for evaluating hate groups.
    • Advocacy in favor of terrorism and/or violent extremism, especially as related to hate groups as generally defined by the SPLC, is likewise prohibited.
    • Generally yes, if the SPLC calls somebody a white supremacist, I'm going to feel free to use that term.  Not as an insult but as the most matter of fact way of describing aa long standing and sometimes popular ideology and political movement.
So this is the crux of your stance: a big organization is okay with calling white groups and research done by whites as "white supremacist", therefore it's okay to racially slur white people. This is you making a big appeal to authority (a logical fallacy) to justify your anti-white racial slurs against white people. You're not really interested in arguments or logic. Big daddy SPLC has said it's okay to verbally abuse white people with racial slurs, and that's all you need to justify your racially charged verbal abuse against white people.

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@Double_R
Nonsense. Combining two words doesn’t create a whole new concept, it just combines the concepts within those two words.  If I gave you hot chocolate served cold, it’s not hot chocolate. Nor would it be hot chocolate if there was no chocolate. You need both for the phrase to apply. That’s English 101.
Then your argument defeats itself because combining "white" and "supremacist" doesn't create a whole new concept. Instead, white refers to the white race, and supremacist as someone who thinks they're/their group is the best, and so we have 'white person thinking they're/their group is better than everyone else'. So, now you've just provided a slam dunk for me because this version of "white supremacist" is more obviously a racial slur because you're literally slurring only white people LOL.

Don't argue this silly line of argument, dumbo. It's not correct AND makes it easier for me to be right about "white supremacist" being a racial slur.

If it was just about ideology, then why is black nationalism not considered black supremacist, whilst white nationalism is considered white supremacism?
If a black person believes black people are the superior race then that by definition would make them a black supremecist. Which BTW, would not be a racial slur.
This totally misses my point.

My point was that black nationalists, Hispanic nationalists and Chinese nationalists aren't labelled as supremacist, yet white nationalists are. Do you see now how whites are being slurred for their nationalism, yet all the other racial groups aren't?

How could whites wanting to form white groups, without any reference to supremacism, be considered to be supremacist, especially when blacks do the same and that's *not* considered supremacism?
Because we live in a country dominated by white people. Black people forming an all black group is a response to their status as ethnic minorities and the discrimination that comes along with it. White people forming an all white group is a response to nothing.
This sentence is far more racially hateful of whites than you probably realize. What you're implicitly saying (given the context of what I said) is that white people don't have a reason to form groups (that's debatable anyway), therefore it's fine to call them "white supremacist". That in itself is a pretty racially hateful thing to say against white people.

But of course, this assumes that ethnic minorities are systemically discriminated against (which is a large debate, in any case, but one in which I think concludes that blacks aren't being racially discriminated against). I don't think it's true that blacks are being systemically racially discriminated against, so I think you're effectively racially slurring white people whilst being systemically racist against them.

If IQ researchers conclude that Asians/Jews have the highest IQ, why are they called white supremacists? Surely, if Lynn argues that Asians are doing best in IQ tests, why isn't Richard Lynn called an Asian supremacist?
Researching IQ scores is not “supremacy”. It’s the intent of the research that matters. IQ scores do not measure genetics or cognitive potential, they measure current ability. That ability can be cultivated and improved just like any other. It’s when one for example tries to use the research to justify inequality as a means to stop helping those in need that out crosses into suprematist territory.

Believing that one race is superior is the literal definition, but that’s not the focus of the phrase white supremecist. The focus is really more about entitlement. Any white person who tells a minority to go back to their country for example, I would argue is a white supremecist. What gives them the right to declare this “their country” to be telling someone else to leave it? What makes them think they are more entitled to this country than any other human being?

It’s that mentality that those who tend to use the phrase are pointing to. Jan 6th is another example. It is not credible to argue that the people who stormed the Capitol were doing so based on facts and reason. They did so because they couldn’t accept that the votes of people who don’t look like them were a legitimate catalyst to remove their President. The Capitol belonged to them and they had to take it back. That’s white supremacy.

So can this apply to other races? Of course it can. It’s just that the phrase black supremecist or Asian supremecist carries no connotation because it’s a useless thing to even talk about in a country dominated by white people.
If the research is conducted with the intent of being nonsensically racially biased against a group, then the research will be shown as faulty. We don't need to guess the "intent" of the research -- that's a red herring. Instead, we need to work out whether the research has been conducted correctly. If the research is conducted correctly and shows that Whites have higher IQ than Blacks, then that's fact regardless of "intent".

IQ scores (the proxy for general intelligence (g)) are partially heritable. So while you're correct in saying IQ scores can be "cultivated and improved" [by the environment], there's a limit to that because general intelligence is partially heritable. For example, you can't turn the average Pygmy with 50 odd IQ into a competent neurologist, regardless of what environment you put him/her in -- heritability already accounts for too much of the variance.

If I walk into China and start DEMANDING that they build churches and white only spaces for me, are they "entitled" for denying me that? If I walk into Sudan and demand they stop worshipping their deities because I feel like that excludes me, are they "entitled" for saying no to that? If an African walks into America and demands that you tear down historical statues and then reorganize workplace laws to make hiring Africans a legal must, is it "entitled" to deny him/her that?

Are Chinese people "Asian supremacists" because they "dominate" China? Are Arabic people "Arabic supremacists" because they "dominate" Saudi Arabia, Iran and Iraq? Are African people "African supremacists" because they "dominate" most of Africa?
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@Double_R
You argued that a word does not have to apply to everyone in a race in order to be a racial slur
You do understand that you agreed with this, right? You do understand that if you no longer agree with this, you've changed your argument, right?

used cotton picker as an example. I then went on to explain why you’re wrong. I wasn’t explaining why cotton picker doesn’t apply to all black people, I was explaining how it does. Once again, those who were forced to pick cotton were so because they were black. The term is an attempt to dehumanize the individual by reminding them of a time when they would have been reduced to less than a human being because of their skin color. That is entirely about their race.
I agree that "cotton picker" is about race, hence making it a racial slur, but this wasn't the point of contention.

The point before I made was this: you previously said "white supremacist" doesn't apply to all white people. Furthermore, "white supremacist" DOES refer to race. Similarly, "cotton picker" doesn't apply to all black people. Furthermore, "cotton picker" DOES refer to race. Your logic is inconsistent because you think the first example is NOT an example of a racial slur, whilst the latter IS.

Read the title to your own thread; “White Supremacist" is a racial slur

Any word can be a slur to any one, if we’re talking about racial slurs then we’re talking about a slur directed at ones race. You cannot then argue that the word does not apply to others of that same race.
Right. So we agree that "white supremacist" is a slur.

I walked you through the non-literal meaning and how white groups/research are slurred, but Asian, Black, Hispanic etc. groups aren't. "White Supremacist" is a racial slur (debateart.com) This point is addressed in my other response to above, but if you want to single out white people for wanting white groups as being "entitled" or "white supremacist", and totally be fine with all other races wanting their own racial groups and NOT being labelled as "entitled" or "[insert race] supremacist", then you're racially biased against white people.
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This entire thread is a series of grasping at straws.

I'm not sure why it's even getting attention, it's so obviously nonsense that it needn't be addressed.

I will now take a 'bite' merely because I'm curious what you could retort with.

'white supremacist' actually refers to the race being held supreme, it is only a coincidence that the white supremacist happens to themselves be 'white'.

That alone destroys your entire case, literally. Your case relies on the 'white' referring to the race of the supremacist but it is in fact referring to the race/appearance that the supremacists holds as supreme.
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This entire thread is a series of grasping at straws.
You haven't demonstrated this.

I'm not sure why it's even getting attention, it's so obviously nonsense that it needn't be addressed.
Circular reasoning. You need to demonstrate why your conclusion is that it's nonsense, rather than imbed it in your reasoning that it is nonsense.

'white supremacist' actually refers to the race being held supreme, it is only a coincidence that the white supremacist happens to themselves be 'white'.

That alone destroys your entire case, literally. Your case relies on the 'white' referring to the race of the supremacist but it is in fact referring to the race/appearance that the supremacists holds as supreme.
Again, there is non-literal meaning behind the term 'white supremacist'. So, "white supremacist" doesn't actually *only* refer to the race being held supreme, elsewise black nationalist groups in Africa would also be called "black supremacist" (they shouldn't be, according to Wikipedia), whilst white nationalist groups are "white supremacist" groups (they should be, according to Wikipedia). Hence, there is non-literal racial slurring of white people. If you had actually read the thread (you haven't), you would have seen this: "White Supremacist" is a racial slur (debateart.com) .
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@Mesmer
Then your argument defeats itself because combining "white" and "supremacist" doesn't create a whole new concept. Instead, white refers to the white race, and supremacist as someone who thinks they're/their group is the best
I’ve already explained this to you as have others in this thread. You are clearly just going to believe whatever you want so I’ll just leave you with the dictionary…

“a person who believes that white people constitute a superior race and should therefore dominate society…”
Oxford

“a person who believes that the white race is inherently superior to other races”
Miriam Webster

“the belief, theory, or doctrine that white people are inherently superior to people from all other racial and ethnic groups”
Dictionary.com

“beliefs and ideas purporting natural superiority of the lighter-skinned, or 'white,' human races over other racial groups.”
Britannica 

“the belief that white people are superior to those of other races and thus should dominate them.”
Wikipedia 

Notice how not one of these definitions begins with “a white person”.

I don’t have service where I’m typing this so if you’d like to verify the definitions feel free to Google them yourself, you might learn something.

My point was that black nationalists, Hispanic nationalists and Chinese nationalists aren't labelled as supremacist, yet white nationalists are. Do you see now how whites are being slurred for their nationalism, yet all the other racial groups aren't?
Nationalism and supremacy are not the same thing. Nationalism is about supporting a particular race, supremacy is about believing one race is better than the rest and should therefore dominate them.

The latter applied to any other race is nonsensical in today’s society. White people are clearly the current dominate race, so the idea that any other race will become the dominate race in the near future is not realistic. Conversely, the former is nonsensical for white people. Because white people are the dominate race, there is nothing to be in support of. How do you move up when you’re already on top? White nationalism is often used as a false label for white supremacy, apparently to the point where people like you really buy into the propaganda thinking they mean the same thing.

If I walk into China and start DEMANDING that they build churches and white only spaces for me, are they "entitled" for denying me that?
No one is demanding that the US government build spaces for black people only. This statement has nothing to do with this conversation or reality.

But I will that say you’d be on far more reasonable grounds to make that demand of the Chinese if the reason you were in China was because they dragged your ancestors here so they could enslave them for 400 years and build the country’s wealth on their free labor, then once finally freed gave your people nothing to compensate them for it.

You do understand that you agreed with this, right? You do understand that if you no longer agree with this, you've changed your argument, right?
No, please explain it to me.

The point before I made was this: you previously said "white supremacist" doesn't apply to all white people. Furthermore, "white supremacist" DOES refer to race. Similarly, "cotton picker" doesn't apply to all black people. Furthermore, "cotton picker" DOES refer to race. Your logic is inconsistent because you think the first example is NOT an example of a racial slur, whilst the latter IS.
No, because you’re just wrong. ‘White supremacist’ points to a person’s ideology, not their race.

And even if it was referring to that persons race, it still would not be a racial slur because in that definition the race of the person is merely a descriptor. Your argument is like saying that calling someone a male whore is a slur against all males.

You also completely twist my argument on cotton picker. I explained to you, twice now, how it does apply to all black people. What is the problem here? Why can you not absorb this point?

but if you want to single out white people for wanting white groups as being "entitled" or "white supremacist", and totally be fine with all other races wanting their own racial groups and NOT being labelled as "entitled" or "[insert race] supremacist", then you're racially biased against white people.
Other groups are fighting for equality, white groups are fighting for dominance. Those are not the same thing.
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@Mesmer
-->@oromagi
A literal interpretation of "white supremacist" is not sufficient to explain its usage. Your definitions don't make sense without this non-literal meaning, especially when I've directly quoted you using this non-literal meaning (shown below):

"The term has non-literal meaning....
By non-literal meaning, you mean figurative.  If a term is not literal than it is figurative. Dictionaries also record non-literal senses of words.  For example, the WIktionary definition of explode includes two figurative senses:

Verb[edit]
explode (third-person singular simple present explodes, present participle exploding, simple past and past participle exploded)
  1. (transitive) To destroy with an explosion.Synonyms: blow up, blow, blast, burst
    The assassin exploded the car by means of a car bomb.
  2. (transitive) To destroy violently or abruptly.
    They sought to explode the myth.
  3. (transitive) To create an exploded view of.
    Explode the assembly drawing so that all the fasteners are visible.
  4. (transitive, archaic) To disprove or debunk. quotations ▼
  5. (intransitive) To blast, to blow up, to burst, to detonate, to go off.
    The bomb explodes.
  6. (figuratively, intransitive) To make a violent or emotional outburst. quotations ▼Synonym: blow up
    She exploded when I criticized her hat.
  7. (figuratively, intransitive) To increase suddenly. quotations ▼Synonym: blow up
  8. (computing, programming, PHP) To break (a delimited string of text) into several smaller strings by removing the separators. quotations ▼
  9. (transitive, computing) To decompress (data) that was previously imploded. quotations ▼Synonym: unstring
  10. (transitive) To open all doors and hatches on an automobile.
When you say that you mean that "white supremacist" is only racist insult in that word's non-literal sense you are asserting that there is a figurative sense of the term "white supremacist....and that assertion is false.
WIKTIONARY
Noun
white supremacist (plural white supremacists)
  1. An advocate of white supremacy, a person who believes that the white race is inherently superior to other races and that white people should have control over people of other races.
MIRRIAM-WEBSTER
white supremacy
 noun
Save Word

Definition of white supremacy

1the belief that the white race is inherently superior to other races and that white people should have control over people of other racesThe alt-right is a reactionary conservative movement … . It is characterized by an embrace of fascism, white supremacy, and misogyny …— Constance Grady
2: the social, economic, and political systems that collectively enable white people to maintain power over people of other races… [William] Kelley turned his considerable intellect and imagination to the question of what it is like to be white in this country, and what it is like, for all Americans, to live under the conditions of white supremacy …
OXFORD
white supremacy
NOUN
  • The belief that white people constitute a superior race and should therefore dominate society, typically to the exclusion or detriment of other racial and ethnic groups, in particular black or Jewish people.
    ‘The cry for war is the cry for domination, white supremacy and death.’

Using your literal definition, none of these scenarios make any sense, so the term "white supremacist" can't be a purely literal one. Sure, if someone is saying "white people are superior to everyone else", by all means does your literal definition apply, but not all usages of the word are using this literal definition, as seen above.
  • False.  All three examples- Lynn, Rushton, Gottfredson are clearly identified by SPLC as white supremacists in the literal, whites-are-superior sense, which is the only sense of that term.
  • Instead, "white supremacist" is a non-literal racial attack against white people forming groups and conducting research.
  • There is no double-secret non-literal non-dictionary sense of the term WHITE SUPREMACIST that supports Mesmer's claim of secret attack.
    • Sorry, that is just pure bullshit (in the figurative sense)

oromagi
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I agree that it is possible for a black person to be a white supremacist. I agree that "white supremacist" doesn't modify a person's race. However, this doesn't address the non-literal meaning wherein white people are slurred on their ability to form groups and conduct research.
Because there's no such thing a secret, non-literal meaning of "white supremacist"

If you are right that the popular use of the term is intentional abuse than how do we explain Trump's statement last Fall, "I condemn all white supremacists"  You're saying that the correct interpretation of Trump's statement was a slur against all white people?  How does that make any sense for Trump?  If yours was a normal or popular interpretation, then Trump would have been criticized for slurring white people.
Yes, white supremacist is a racial slur, regardless of who says it, even if that person is Trump.
Okay, so let's take that to the readers. 

READERS! 

  • Mesmer thinks that Trump was deliberately trying to insult all Caucasians just before the election last fall by condemning White Supremacy in its secret, non-literal sense. Mesmer likewise claims that FBI Director Wray was just trolling white people generally he warned of the rise in White Supremacist terrorism this spring.
  • Does such a claim make any sense to anybody else or is Mesmer here living is his own super secret bubble of special pleading?
White people have become so disenfranchised in western countries,
false
and also plagued by white people who have white out-group bias
false
 speaking out against injustices against white people is considered "racist" or "bigoted".
false
It's super sinister
false
when you consider that all the false narratives and slurs levelled against whites CANNOT be talked about whites because they would be "racist" to do so.
false.  You seem to talk of nothing else.

In other words, anti-white slurs rhetoric isn't popular at all with white people, they're just scared of speaking up and getting slammed by anti-white extremists.
false

I take GREAT ISSUE when YOU label mere research on IQ as "white supremacist",
false.  I did not label anybody anything.  I cited SPLC's warning that Gottfredson's funding, research, and outcomes were White Supremacist in origin, among the many reasons given was that Gottfredson concludes that the average black person is naturally mentally retarded and that the only thing that accounts for higher IQs in African-Americans is from white genes.  Seems pretty literally "white supremacist" to me.

because you're lumping genuinely dangerous people in with people conducting racially impartial research.
Nobody is pretending that Gottfredson's IQ research is impartial.  She is paid by the Pioneer Fund for the same specific outcomes shared by all research done at the Pioneer Fund's requests: that white people are superior to black people.

Again, if IQ was about "white supremacy", then why do these "white supremacists" consistently find that Jewish and Asian people have HIGHER IQ than whites? Why are they finding that Jews and Asians are superior if they believe that whites are? That makes ZERO sense.  Yet people like you continue to slur these white researchers as "white supremacist" even when their research shows that whites AREN'T the best/superior to Asians and Jews, in regards to IQ.
  • White supremacists claim overall superiority, not superiority in every trait.  White supremacists cede physical superiority  to blacks but claim superiority in intelligence and work ethic.  Likewise, white supremacists cede intelligence and work ethic to Asians but claim physical superiority and individuality as traits that make Whites superior. 
  • Why aren't Jews being studied as White people?  Doesn't a  primarily religious separation suggest that categories are really much more socially constructed than researchers acknowledge?
Also there are people who openly advocate the superiority of European or Caucasian ancestry who have no reason to mind being called white supremacists as the most apt label.
These people are called useful idiots.
  • Interesting.  What do you find useful about open white supremacy?
  • My post shows 
    • I did not try to rebut Gottfredson.  In fact, Mesmer specifically asked me what I thought of his sources and I replied that his sources sucked.  One of several reasons given was that the SPLC condemns Gottfredson as white supremacist in ideology.
I asked you if the arguments were wrong. You responded by implying the arguments were "white supremacist"
That false. Here's the exact words:

  • You claim that this is a snapshot from a Scientific American book but that particular data set has a much longer history.  I assume the article to which you refer is a reprint of Gottfredson's The General Intelligence Factor in which your table is reprinted.  Gottfredson is best known for leading the tepid scientific defense of Herrnstein and Murray's The Bell Curve (in which this table is also reprinted).
    • Let's note that the Southern Poverty Law Center defines Gottfredson as a promoter of eugenicism, scientific racism, and white nationalism.
    • Gottfredson has taken more than a quarter million dollars in grants from the White Supremacist Pioneer Fund to advance eugenics research.
  • I implied nothing. I rebutted nothing.  I argued nothing.  I documented the SPLC's warning regarding Gottfredson's research and financing, which you failed to do.
  • and Ad hommed a whole bunch of people related to the field. Even if they were terrorists, pedophiles, Nazis or telemarketers, that is totally irrelevant to whether their argument is correct -- this is a pure example of Ad hom.  And before you make the silly argument again that Ad hom is valid, I explained in detail why you were wrong on that: IQ is a Valid Metric (debateart.com) .
  • You conceded that I correctly applied Wikipedia's definition of valid ad hom and then you lied about the nature of my argument.
    • I twice argued that your data was "exposed to skepticism" because of the established political agenda attached to funding which you characterize as 
      •  you're essentially arguing that because their conflict of interest *might* have caused the research to be biased, it *has* to be biased
      • I argue "exposed to skepticism" which you interpret as "*has* to be biased" (your emphasis)
      • Wikipedia and I are clear about the nature of ad hom, the silliness arises from your lack of comprehension.
    •  Mulinos, et al published a series of studies in the 30's showing that the addition of  diethylene-glycol made cigarette smoke less irritating to the eyes and throat, 
        • It is a valid ad hom to point out that Phillip Morris paid for those studies and then used that data to promote Lucky Strikes as the least irritating cigarette.
          • The data, in isolation, is accurate  enough but it is totally legit to point out that the data was purpose built and totally disinterested in the larger question of whether or not Lucky Strikes were toxic.
      • Likewise, it a valid ad hom to  point out the Pioneer Fund provides the financing behind all of the science you cite and that 
        • that fund was founded with an explicitly racist purpose:
          • "race betterment" by promoting the genetic stock of those "deemed to be descended predominantly from white persons who settled in the original thirteen states prior to the adoption of the Constitution."
          • I don't argue that therefore the data must be inaccurate, 
            • In fact, I believe several follow-ups have backed The Bell Curve's stats
          • I do question the value of in assessing intelligence (which we've agreed is incomplete)
          • I do question the value of assessing g according to skin color and religion.
          • I would question any public policy recommendation based on such assessments.
    • To say that those numbers had nothing to do with race is also false.  Gottfredson's public defense of those numbers was specifically racist in conclusion.
      • [quotes about what Gottfredson apparently said]
      • [more quotes about what Gottfredson apparently said]
If she actually said that African Americans were mentally retarded with 85 IQ
Again, your comprehension is questionable. Nobody said that.  Read it again.

(these quotes are unsourced), 
The source is stated twice in the SPLC quote: "Mainstream Intelligence on Science"

Again, arguing that IQ has certain correlate impact on life outcomes doesn't make you a "white supremacist" lol.
I wonder what you are laughing about?  As I've argued before, your source's 'Leave It to Beaver' life outcomes are clearly old fashioned..  Why is having a child out of wedlock a bad life outcome for women but not for men, etc?

  • You're not citing any of this with sources.
That is my evaluation and we've already agreed on sources here. 
  • Bell Curvers (incl. Gottfredson) state that average IQ of sub-Saharan Africans is 71 and
    • that the 70-75 range is threshold for mental retardation. 
    • Therefore, the  average Black African is disabled, limited in ability to communicate, self-care, self-direct, work, etc. 
  • Bell Curvers (incl. Gottfredson) state that average IQ of Black Africans is 85 and
    • this is not due to environment or education as much as because "Almost all Americans who identify themselves as black have white ancestors" (Gottfredson, Mainstream Science)
  • The validity of the data is totally irrelevant to the assertion of racial supremacy here.  Bell Curvers (incl. Gottfredson) are unequivocally asserting white superiority if the average, unadulterated black person's natural genetic outcome is defined as limited in their ability to even take care of their own affairs.

  • Let's note that the DebateArt.com CODE of CONDUCT uses SPLC as the standard for evaluating hate groups.
    • Advocacy in favor of terrorism and/or violent extremism, especially as related to hate groups as generally defined by the SPLC, is likewise prohibited.
    • Generally yes, if the SPLC calls somebody a white supremacist, I'm going to feel free to use that term.  Not as an insult but as the most matter of fact way of describing aa long standing and sometimes popular ideology and political movement.
So this is the crux of your stance: a big organization is okay with calling white groups and research done by whites as "white supremacist", therefore it's okay to racially slur white people. This is you making a big appeal to authority (a logical fallacy) to justify your anti-white racial slurs against white people. You're not really interested in arguments or logic. Big daddy SPLC has said it's okay to verbally abuse white people with racial slurs, and that's all you need to justify your racially charged verbal abuse against white people.
No.  The crux of my stance is that making up fake "non-literal" interpretations of words is special pleading and so your false claim of injury lacks any credibility.  Your hurt feelings arise from your unique interpretation of the term which has no semantic basis in works of reference.  If you are going to base arguments on sources that are deemed extreme by this site's standards, by SPLC's standards, by Wikipedia's standards, etc., then you must expect those sources will be sometimes  challenged as extreme beliefs unsupported by the scientific consensus.  



Mesmer
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Then your argument defeats itself because combining "white" and "supremacist" doesn't create a whole new concept. Instead, white refers to the white race, and supremacist as someone who thinks they're/their group is the best
I’ve already explained this to you as have others in this thread. You are clearly just going to believe whatever you want so I’ll just leave you with the dictionary…
I used the meaning provided by you to show that your interpretation is contradictory to your overall argument, and therefore self-defeating. NB: you were not arguing the dictionary definitions here, even if you thought you were. But who cares because you're about to argue the better argument below.

[lots of definitions from different dictionaries/websites]

Notice how not one of these definitions begins with “a white person”.

I don’t have service where I’m typing this so if you’d like to verify the definitions feel free to Google them yourself, you might learn something.
Now you've gone back to arguing your original argument.

I would usually refer to the non-literal meaning to the word, but we're about to argue this below, so I'll elaborate down there.

My point was that black nationalists, Hispanic nationalists and Chinese nationalists aren't labelled as supremacist, yet white nationalists are. Do you see now how whites are being slurred for their nationalism, yet all the other racial groups aren't?
Nationalism and supremacy are not the same thing. Nationalism is about supporting a particular race, supremacy is about believing one race is better than the rest and should therefore dominate them.

The latter applied to any other race is nonsensical in today’s society. White people are clearly the current dominate race, so the idea that any other race will become the dominate race in the near future is not realistic. Conversely, the former is nonsensical for white people. Because white people are the dominate race, there is nothing to be in support of. How do you move up when you’re already on top? White nationalism is often used as a false label for white supremacy, apparently to the point where people like you really buy into the propaganda thinking they mean the same thing.
Finally, we have someone get the main point: nationalism and supremacy aren't the same thing. I 100% agree with you here. We're making progress.

Now, I'm going to repeat myself but it's an essential argument to address, let's again consider the fact that any country where a race is the majority tends to "dominate". There are exceptions to this (South Africa, Zimbabwe etc.), but these exceptions don't break the rule. So, in China, Chinese people "dominate" their country: "Han Chinese people are mostly concentrated in the People's Republic of China (Mainland China), where they make up about 92% of the total population." Han Chinese - Wikipedia . If China are the dominant group of people in China, then according to your logic, Chinese people in China should be called "Chinese supremacist". But, they are not (control+f for "supremacism": Chinese nationalism - Wikipedia ). As I've previously cited, the same argument can be made for Hispanic and Black nationalists, despite them being the racial majority (dominant) in certain parts of the world (South America and Africa etc.). Clearly, these are real world contradictions of your logic that we should call "dominate"[insert race] nationalism [insert race] supremacist.

You then go on to say "White nationalism is often used as a false label for white supremacy". Again, why is this logic not applied to other races and their nationalism? Also, you agree that all white nationalism isn't white supremacy, hence there exists white nationalism that shouldn't be labelled white supremacist, yet again our favorite friend Wikipedia has decided to say that all white nationalism overlaps into white supremacism "Analysts describe white nationalism as overlapping with white supremacism" White nationalism - Wikipedia . Is Wikipedia wrong, or are you wrong?

If I walk into China and start DEMANDING that they build churches and white only spaces for me, are they "entitled" for denying me that?
No one is demanding that the US government build spaces for black people only. This statement has nothing to do with this conversation or reality.

But I will that say you’d be on far more reasonable grounds to make that demand of the Chinese if the reason you were in China was because they dragged your ancestors here so they could enslave them for 400 years and build the country’s wealth on their free labor, then once finally freed gave your people nothing to compensate them for it.


So, not only is it true that people demand Black only spaces, but these Black only spaces have already been allowed.

As for your slavery point, China engaged in slavery repeatedly throughout its history Slavery in China - Wikipedia . Wikipedia notes than even before 594 BC, slavery was a thing in China (a bit longer than the 400 years you wanted). China no longer has African or slaves of other races because most were worked until they dropped dead, which is a fate a tiny bit worse than African Americans in America, don't you think? Africans and African Americans in China: A Long History, A Troubled Present, and a Promising Future? • (blackpast.org) . So, in your book, I must be on far more "reasonable grounds" now :)

No, because you’re just wrong. ‘White supremacist’ points to a person’s ideology, not their race.

And even if it was referring to that persons race, it still would not be a racial slur because in that definition the race of the person is merely a descriptor. Your argument is like saying that calling someone a male whore is a slur against all males.

You also completely twist my argument on cotton picker. I explained to you, twice now, how it does apply to all black people. What is the problem here? Why can you not absorb this point?
Again, the white group point: if it was just about "ideology", then why are all white nationalist groups labelled "white supremacist" too? Even you agree that not all white nationalist groups are white supremacist ones, hence it appears "white supremacist" attacks white groups not based on ideology, but race, especially when we recognize that we don't consider Chinese nationalist, Hispanic nationalist and Black nationalist to all be [insert race] supremacist.

My argument has never been that if you call someone a racial slur, you're slurring all of that racial group. Again, you don't need to think every black person is the n word for the n word to be a racial slur. Likewise, you don't need to think every white person is a white supremacist for white supremacist to be a racial slur.

Other groups are fighting for equality, white groups are fighting for dominance. Those are not the same thing.
Yes, Chinese people in China are fighting for equality. They are clearly not the supermajority. Hispanics in Mexico are heavily oppressed by the overwhelming minorities of other races. South Koreans are overrun by the 4.9% of people in their country who are not Korean, and thus need to fight for equality.
Mesmer
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@oromagi
[Quoting Wiktionary and other definitions. Also demonstrating that dictionaries will sometimes account for figurative definitions.]
If the definition of "white supremacist" was purely any of these definitions, then I'd have no argument with you. It's fine that "white supremacist" could have a purely literal definition.

However, as I've demonstrated numerous times, all "white nationalist" groups have been labelled as "white supremacist" by Wikipedia. Conversely, NO OTHER race's national group has been labelled that race's supremacist group by Wikipedia. So, it appears that forming a white group is labelled as "white supremacist", something that is unexplained by ANY of the definitions you've provided. We've also seen "white supremacist" labels be applied to research conducted on IQ that has nothing to do with race.

So, either:

(1) Your and other's application of "white supremacist" is wrong when used to describe white groups and research done by whites
(2) There is non-literal meaning that is NOT specified by any of the definitions you cited

There is no other possibility -- you are contradictory in arguing there is no problem.

  • False.  All three examples- Lynn, Rushton, Gottfredson are clearly identified by SPLC as white supremacists in the literal, whites-are-superior sense, which is the only sense of that term.
Once again, you've decided to appeal to authority. Once again, you need to demonstrate why these people should be labelled as "white supremacist" instead of merely appealing to authority (and we're not even sure the SPLC is an authority on anything).

  • There is no double-secret non-literal non-dictionary sense of the term WHITE SUPREMACIST that supports Mesmer's claim of secret attack.
    • Sorry, that is just pure bullshit (in the figurative sense)
    • [...]
Because there's no such thing a secret, non-literal meaning of "white supremacist"
Then it must logically follow you are using the (only) literal definition of "white supremacist" incorrectly.

If you want to concede this, then feel free to.

  • Mesmer thinks that Trump was deliberately trying to insult all Caucasians just before the election last fall by condemning White Supremacy in its secret, non-literal sense. Mesmer likewise claims that FBI Director Wray was just trolling white people generally he warned of the rise in White Supremacist terrorism this spring.
  • Does such a claim make any sense to anybody else or is Mesmer here living is his own super secret bubble of special pleading?
None of my claims at all lol.

My claim about Trump was this: "Yes, white supremacist is a racial slur, regardless of who says it, even if that person is Trump." "White Supremacist" is a racial slur (debateart.com) .

My claim about FBI Director Wray was this: "I've got no problem with white terrorists who shoot up mosques or schools because they're non-white being labelled as "white supremacists" and "violent extremists"." "White Supremacist" is a racial slur (debateart.com) 

I have no idea why you decided to lie about what I said when I can disprove it so easily.

White people have become so disenfranchised in western countries,
false
Firstly, when entities like you and Wikipedia attempt to call white groups "white supremacist", and when entities like you and the SPLC label scientific work from white people as "white supremacist", that's disenfranchisement. So, you're already off to a bad start.

Secondly, white people are becoming the non-supermajority in many of their countries, and hence they're less able to vote for issues that affect them, and other racial groups are able to DEMAND for things that benefit only them (such as black only spaces: "Allison Hill is the founder of the Toronto-based Black-only space Restore." Pandemic pushes Black-only spaces online — here’s what happened next | Globalnews.ca BLM Philly: Black-only spaces are a gathering place to 'organize, heal' (inquirer.com) Seattle ‘Autonomous Zone’ Creates Black-Only Segregated Area | The Daily Wire ------ Demands for more Black only spaces: 5 Reasons We Need Black-Only Spaces (And No, Reverse Racism Isn’t One of Them) - Everyday Feminism No, Black-Only Safe Spaces Are Not Racist. (wearyourvoicemag.com) Black students demand segregated spaces from white students | The College Fix The Arrow | Why People of Color Need Spaces Without White People (arrow-journal.org) ).

Thirdly, I can elaborate on the first point by saying that some people call white (unorganized) groups "microaggressions" University Report: A Room Full of White People Is a Microaggression | National Review . All the policy changes suggested in this review were aimed at reducing white numbers in these classes.


Fifthly, the US army has had its white troops be the focus of an anti-white campaign because they have "white privilege" Here’s That Wonderful ‘White Privilege’ Course US Army Soldiers Had to Take | The Daily Wire . Moreover, they argue that these white military people need to be aware that their achievements in life are to be discounted because of the color of skin. This attempt to strip whites of their positions/achievements has come from other angles, too: Report: Too many whites, men lead U.S. military (nbcnews.com) Is the military really too white and too male? | The Week Officials Say US Special Forces Are Too White And Too Male | The Daily Caller Even the POW flag was attacked for being "too white", despite most of America's military has been historically white. Instead, they wanted to put a NON-WHITE on the flag The Story Behind the POW/MIA Flag (newsweek.com) . 

Sixthly, people from Los Angeles demanded that the LA fire department needs to become less white because it was too white New LAFD recruit class is nearly all male, overwhelmingly white - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com) 

Seventhly, a Brooklyn school decided to cut its gifted & talented class because it was too white Brooklyn school cutting gifted program to boost diversity  - New York Daily News (nydailynews.com) . The US federal government has also decided that AP classes are too white Finally, the US admits it: AP classes are way too white — Quartz (qz.com) .

Eighthly, some people actually believe that "you cannot be racist against white people" You Cannot Be 'Racist' Against White People (dailydot.com) .

I have more but you get the point -- you're dead wrong.

and also plagued by white people who have white out-group bias
false
"White liberals" have been shown to have out-group racial bias against white people: white out group bias - Bing , white out group bias - Bing  and white out group bias - Bing . Again, I have more studies that make the same argument but you get the point -- you're dead wrong.

 speaking out against injustices against white people is considered "racist" or "bigoted".
false
Called "racist" for arguing against the misapplication of slander against whites: Racism is a nonsense, malicious term (debateart.com)

Called "racist" for because I (a white person) suggested that human subspecies exist, and that these genetic differences account for different outcomes (rather than systemic racism) Racism is a nonsense, malicious term (debateart.com) 

Got called "racist" again for trying to explain the above Race Realism: Critical understandings (debateart.com) .

Got called "racist" yet again for trying to explain the same thing Race Realism: Critical understandings (debateart.com) .

Here is someone ready to call me a "racist", regardless of how I defend race realism, purely because I am arguing race realism explains the racial outcome differences Race Realism: Critical understandings (debateart.com) 

Called "racist" for arguing race as a concept (and hence race explains racial outcomes in America) Racism is a nonsense, malicious term (debateart.com) 

I think it's an injustice that children go without care from their biological parents You argued that white people were "racist" for believing that a parent needed to take care of their biological children, and that if the man was earning more money, then that means the mother should stay home. IQ is a Valid Metric (debateart.com) 

Race realism potentially being valid (instead of the systemic racism nonsense you like to purport, of which illogically attacks white people) is "racist" and "bigoted" according to David Suzuki Rushton Refuted: David Suzuki vs. J. Philippe Rushton - YouTube .

Talking about race (when you're white) is considered "racist" by this person Why I’m no longer talking to white people about race | Race | The Guardian .

Anyone who doesn't believe in the white "oppression" of black people in America are "racist" (can't even discuss it without being "racist") How to talk about white privilege with people who don't 'get it' | Well+Good (wellandgood.com) 

BBC believes that all these things are "racist": (1) biological differences between white and blacks are a myth, (2) having a homeland for your race, (3) geneaology tests can't prove someone is white, and (4) black people are better at running than white people. How to argue with a racist: Five myths debunked - BBC News 

How many more instances do you need?

It's super sinister
false
Being attacked and silenced because of my race isn't sinister?