"White Supremacist" is a racial slur

Author: Mesmer

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Double_R
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@Mesmer
It's also true that this "white supremacist" racial slur is essentially an attack on white groups in general,
No, it’s an attack on white people who hold racist attitudes. HUGE difference.

Calling someone out on their racism is not racism.

Double_R
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@ILikePie5
Is the N word applicable to all blacks? 
Yes.
Mesmer
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@secularmerlin
There is only one human race and you cannot derive differences in ethnicities such that any single group is actually superior to any other. 
Humans can be divided into sub-species (races): The Existence of Race – The Alternative Hypothesis . I've posted this argument to you multiple times and you've failed to address it every time.

I never made an argument about racial superiority. I think we're finding out the reason you don't quote people: you lie about what they said.

If a white supremacist is called a white supremacist it is in no way comparable to the emotional and sociological baggage involved in using a slur against a group. White supremacy is a social agenda not an ethnic group. 
(1) Social baggage doesn't determine whether something is a slur. Someone could be called a slur and not get offended, but the term would be still be a slur.
(2) White people don't enjoy being called a "white supremacist". This is clearly a negative thing.

In no way ever will having your racism pointed out to you ever going to represent the same harm that practicing your racism on others does. This is not an argument it is an observation of observable reality. 

If your argument has any validity it is only in the pedantic sense that anything could be used as a racial slur.
All your premises are wrong so this conclusion is wrong.
Mesmer
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Which means that even if the term is not applied to all whities you still say it is a racial slur.
Your standard for a "racial slur" is unsupported.

Also, your standard is inaccurately high. It's possible to call someone a racial slur *without* believing all people of that race are that racial slur. Hence, this invalidates your standard, even if you were to actually support it.
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@Double_R
Yes
Then you need to take a look again at history my friend 
Mesmer
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@Double_R
No, it’s an attack on white people who hold racist attitudes. HUGE difference.
You've already conceded the argument with this statement because you described them as "white" people. If race had no bearing on this, then the (non-racial) slur would be "supremacist".

Calling someone out on their racism is not racism.
Discipulus_Didicit
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@ILikePie5
Is the N word applicable to all blacks? 
I don't use it to describe any blacks but for those that do use it, yeah.

Not sure what that has to do with my question though.
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@Mesmer
Your standard for a "racial slur" is unsupported.
Racial slur = slur against a race. Seems pretty self explanatory.
ILikePie5
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Not all black people were slaves. Some were slave owners themselves, so the term really doesn’t hold up for them does it?
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@ILikePie5
Could you be a bit more specific on who you do or do not call by the N word?
Mesmer
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Racial slur = slur against a race. Seems pretty self explanatory.
This explanation fails to contend with the secondary part of my post to you: "Also, your standard is inaccurately high. It's possible to call someone a racial slur *without* believing all people of that race are that racial slur. Hence, this invalidates your standard, even if you were to actually support it." "White Supremacist" is a racial slur (debateart.com) . In other words, I don't have to believe every black person is a "n*gger" in order for the term "n*gger" to be a racial slur against an African American. So, your standard remains inaccurately high.
ILikePie5
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@Mesmer
Where have you been all of the past 5 years lol
Discipulus_Didicit
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@Mesmer
It's possible to call someone a racial slur *without* believing all people of that race are that racial slur.
Kinda just sounds like a slur at that point.
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@Mesmer
And is your argument not based upon personal feelings?
Mesmer
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Kinda just sounds like a slur at that point.
If it was just a slur, the term would just be "supremacist", instead of "white supremacist". The "white" part makes it a racial slur.

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@Mesmer

Everything that you have posted in this thread is resultant of you, and how you personally choose to process and attribute importance to specific data.

Otherwise, why should anyone take you seriously?


This is DEBATEart and not YOUMUSTAGREEWITHMESMERart.

I would suggest that debate requires a certain level of disagreement to make it worthwhile.
3RU7AL
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@secularmerlin
Odd caucasians are almost never the target of ethnic cleansing so I don't know who is saying this.
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@Mesmer
It's possible to call someone a racial slur *without* believing all people of that race are that racial slur.
Well stated.
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@ILikePie5
Not all black people were slaves. Some were slave owners themselves, so the term really doesn’t hold up for them does it?
Also, it's worth pointing out that the very word itself, "slave" is derived from the word "slav" which is an abbreviated form of "slavic".

slave (n.)
late 13c., "person who is the chattel or property of another," from Old French esclave (13c.), from Medieval Latin Sclavus "slave" (source also of Italian schiavo, French esclave, Spanish esclavo), originally "Slav" (see Slav); so used in this secondary sense because of the many Slavs sold into slavery by conquering peoples. [**]
3RU7AL
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@Mesmer
No, it’s an attack on white people who hold racist attitudes. HUGE difference.
You've already conceded the argument with this statement because you described them as "white" people. If race had no bearing on this, then the (non-racial) slur would be "supremacist".
Well stated.
3RU7AL
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@Mesmer
Humans can be divided into sub-species (races): The Existence of Race – The Alternative Hypothesis . I've posted this argument to you multiple times and you've failed to address it every time.
Seems to contradict,

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@Mesmer
In no case is "white supremacist" purely descriptive. That is why when people use it, it is regarded as an insult -- no one wants to be called a white supremacist. Wikipedia probably agrees with this notion because it doesn't want 'black nationalism' to be ascribed as 'black supremacy', most likely because 'black supremacy' would be a slur referencing race (racial slur).
People should only be self-described.

Instead of trying to force a category on someone, you should ASK THEM if they identify with some proposed generalized type and or label.

Forcing a category on someone (that they do not personally self-describe as) is almost always an AD HOMINEM ATTACK.
3RU7AL
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@Double_R
Calling someone out on their racism is not racism.
How do I detect implicit racism ?

I'd really love to start calling people out.
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@Mesmer
You've also now decided to make the claim that there is 'more difference within than between'. This argument has been debunked to death, but nonetheless here is an argument walking you through why that claim doesn't prove what you think it does (tl;dr: there are greater instances on individual genetic markers within races than between, but the total weighted effect of these genetic markers (despite between fewer in quantity between than within), produces greater genetic variance between than within): Variation Within and Between Races – The Alternative Hypothesis .
In practical terms, it doesn't matter how many or how few "genetic markers" there are.

Humans cannot detect "genetic markers".

And discrimination, not only based on skin-tone, but also on language and culture and religion have existed for millenia, certainly long before anyone even considered "genetic markers".
Discipulus_Didicit
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@Mesmer
Not every whitey thinks that whities should be supreme over the non whites though. White supremacy is not a race, it is an ideology.

Could you be a bit more specific on who you do or do not call by the N word? The dictionary definition is as follows:

a contemptuous term for a black or dark-skinned person.
3RU7AL
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@Mesmer
BLUE POWER

PINK POWER

GREEN POWER
Mesmer
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Not every whitey thinks that whities should be supreme over the non whites though. White supremacy is not a race, it is an ideology.
We've been through this already, although my examples were probably not thorough enough, so I'll do better this time.

Let's take for example "cotton picker". Let's say a White American used to this describe an African American -- this is a racial slur. However, it's possible that this White American doesn't believe *all* African Americans are "cotton pickers", BUT "cotton picker" remains a racial slur regardless of that fact. Again, you don't have to think that all African Americans are "cotton pickers" for "cotton picker" to be a racial slur -- your qualification/standard of 'you have to think all people of that race are the slur' isn't valid.

Could you be a bit more specific on who you do or do not call by the N word?
I never use the n word because it's a racial slur. I wish people would stop using racial slurs like "white supremacist" against White people, too.
Mesmer
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@3RU7AL
Humans can be divided into sub-species (races): The Existence of Race – The Alternative Hypothesis . I've posted this argument to you multiple times and you've failed to address it every time.
Seems to contradict,

Race =/= "racism". 

People should only be self-described.

Instead of trying to force a category on someone, you should ASK THEM if they identify with some proposed generalized type and or label.

Forcing a category on someone (that they do not personally self-describe as) is almost always an AD HOMINEM ATTACK.
If you insist that labels can be used to people who self-describe, you'll get more grifters and liars who pretend to be something they're not. For example, if you don't go to church, and you don't believe in God, and you don't know anything about the Bible, chances are you're not a Christian, even if you describe yourself as such.

In practical terms, it doesn't matter how many or how few "genetic markers" there are.

Humans cannot detect "genetic markers".

And discrimination, not only based on skin-tone, but also on language and culture and religion have existed for millenia, certainly long before anyone even considered "genetic markers".
For determining race, it matters a lot how many markers there are because using fewer than 30 leads us to faulty conclusions about the validity of human races. Using genetic markers in the first place is to demonstrate that human races are a valid concept, and aren't just something some 'racist' made up.

I agree that racial discrimination has existed long before our time, and the overwhelming majority of humans don't discriminate due to loci/SNP data collections. I'm just arguing that these people are inadvertently correct about different people being genetically different, sometimes to the point of being a different race.

BLUE POWER

PINK POWER

GREEN POWER
You've going to have to explain this one to me, lol.
Double_R
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@ILikePie5
Then you need to take a look again at history my friend 
Show me a black Person who is not subject to the N word. I’ll wait.
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@Mesmer
I never use the n word because it's a racial slur.
It is a racial slur? How so?