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@Fruit_Inspector
Very few if any abortions are late term that is that crap that people whip out when they don't really have anything else to say about abortion.
Abortion and covid
Posts
Total:
389
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@Polytheist-Witch
Very few if any abortions are late term that is that crap that people whip out when they don't really have anything else to say about abortion.
You say this as though it makes a difference. If life doesn't begin until birth, then abortion at 4 weeks is no different than abortion at 40 weeks. Do you believe that abortion 10 seconds prior to birth is child murder or not?
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@SkepticalOne
Actually, I was thinking of pro-lifers so often being for capital punishment and against social programs for those in need (such as pregnant women or young mothers). This is very much anti-life positions, imo.
Well stated.
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@SkepticalOne
If the bar for personhood is low enough to allow zygotes, for instance, then many other things - like cancer, gametes, or animals- will qualify for personhood as well.
Well stated.
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@Fruit_Inspector
You say this as though it makes a difference. If life doesn't begin until birth, then abortion at 4 weeks is no different than abortion at 40 weeks. Do you believe that abortion 10 seconds prior to birth is child murder or not?
DO YOU BELIEVE YOUR RIGHT TO MEDICAL PRIVACY ENDS 10 SECONDS PRIOR TO GIVING BIRTH ?
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@bmdrocks21
Why is there no right to the use of the body of another?
Imagine you find a tiny gnome growing in your house.
This gnome has attached itself to your power mains and water pipes and is siphoning off an increasing amount of both.
You also realize that if gnome thing keeps growing, it will permanently change the shape of your house.
You also understand that forcibly removing the gnome will likely result in its demise.
Do you believe you are obligated to provide life-support for an unwelcome guest ?
Do you believe you are obligated to provide life-support for an illegal-alien-immigrant ?
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@3RU7AL
That is irrelevant. The baby in the womb is either a life or it isn't. If it's a life, then abortion is murder.
But if life doesn't begin until birth, then late term abortion should be view conceptually the same as an abortion in the first trimester. You can "terminate the pregnancy" at any time with no moral issue. It's no different than clipping a fingernail, right?
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@TheUnderdog
Pro lifer conservatives: 800,000 painless abortion deaths is a tragedy.Also pro life conservatives: 600,000 extremely painful covid deaths are no big deal.Me: Do you have ANY self awareness whatsoever?
And 8 million deaths from heart disease are "no big deal" ?
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@Fruit_Inspector
That is irrelevant. The baby in the womb is either a life or it isn't. If it's a life, then abortion is murder.But if life doesn't begin until birth, then late term abortion should be view conceptually the same as an abortion in the first trimester. You can "terminate the pregnancy" at any time with no moral issue. It's no different than clipping a fingernail, right?
I find it interesting that you don't seem to think MEDICAL PRIVACY is a fundamental right.
Here's the lynch-pin,
What a woman does with her body is her decision and her decision alone.
Miscarriages and stillborn infants are PERSONAL (PRIVATE) MEDICAL EVENTS.
Miscarriages and stillborn infants are NOT MANSLAUGHTER AND OR CHILD ABUSE CASES TO BE INVESTIGATED.
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@Fruit_Inspector
Personally no. Now I have extreme problems with partial birth abortion cuz I believe once any part of the baby's body is out that child is partly born and to interfere should be a crime. Legally there are boundaries that we put on what is considered life, most states do not have late-term abortions legal because once the brain is developed it's considered bad form to have an abortion. But that has nothing to do with the fact that most abortions occur before a certain time and only occur after that tend to be medically necessary.
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@3RU7AL
If the bar for personhood is low enough to allow zygotes, for instance, then many other things - like cancer, gametes, or animals- will qualify for personhood as well.Well stated.
Without a connection drawn on how we jump from recognizing a person, principally as soon as we know of their existence, and similarly respecting human rights for cancer, gametes, or animals, the statement is unintelligible. A gamete will never develop as a person. Cancer will never develop as a person. Humans are animals, but not all animals are human.
Actually, I was thinking of pro-lifers so often being for capital punishment and against social programs for those in need (such as pregnant women or young mothers). This is very much anti-life positions, imo.Well stated
Prison is antithetical to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Nonetheless, once you are in custody of the state, we don't place a burden of proof upon the prisoner to demonstrate why they should not be killed. It's customary that we give them food, water, shelter, and only isolate them from community to the extent necessary, free of charge. To deprive them of human rights is supposed to require "due process".
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@Conway
Without a connection drawn on how we jump from recognizing a person, principally as soon as we know of their existence, and similarly respecting human rights for cancer, gametes, or animals, the statement is unintelligible. A gamete will never develop as a person. Cancer will never develop as a person. Humans are animals, but not all animals are human.
(IFF) an embryo, blastocyst, foetus is granted citizenship and the requisite rights and protections of citizenship (THEN) every single miscarriage and stillbirth MUST BE INVESTIGATED AS POTENTIAL MANSLAUGHTER
(IFF) every "potential human" must be "protected by the state" (THEN) every single copulation event must be registered with the state
(IFF) you argue that "unique human dna" deserves to be protected regardless of the whim of the host (THEN) cancer and other tumors deserve to be protected
(IFF) you argue that an embryo, blastocyst, foetus can "feel pain" and deserves to be protected regardless of the whim of the host (THEN) every creature that can "feel pain" deserves to be protected
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@Fruit_Inspector
So somehow terminating a pregnancy is evil but letting people die some other ways just fine it's complete and utter hypocrisy."Terminating a pregnancy" is child murder. "Letting people die" is an ambiguous statement that often just means "you don't want massive welfare programs!" Limiting welfare is not the same as actively murdering someone so there is no hypocrisy.
Do you think an "unborn human" is more valuable than a homeless human or an illegal immigrant or a human fleeing a warzone ?
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@SkepticalOne
Plus, an unwilling parent can legally give the child up.
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@3RU7AL
Imagine you find a tiny gnome growing in your house.
False analogy, people don't just wake up pregnant.
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@3RU7AL
Do you think an "unborn human" is more valuable than a homeless human or an illegal immigrant or a human fleeing a warzone ?
No, but I also have a worldview that allows me to say that all human beings have inherent value as image-bearers of God. And just because I don't want massive social welfare programs does not mean I don't believe in charity. And just because I don't want open borders does not mean I believe we should refuse asylum to those who are actually fleeing a warzone. And being against illegal immigration should be a non-issue for any law-abiding citizen.
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@TheMorningsStar
Imagine you find a tiny gnome growing in your house.False analogy, people don't just wake up pregnant.
Sure they do.
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@Fruit_Inspector
And being against illegal immigration should be a non-issue for any law-abiding citizen.
The "legality" of immigration is historically amorphous.
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@Fruit_Inspector
And just because I don't want massive social welfare programs
So, you want to employ the force of the state in order to protect non-citizen blastocysts, but you DON'T want to employ the force of the state to protect homeless and or otherwise vulnerable citizens ?
Do you believe the state should invest in ECTOGENESIS ?
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@TheMorningsStar
Imagine you find a tiny gnome growing in your house.False analogy, people don't just wake up pregnant.
More than 25% of abortions are performed on married women.
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@3RU7AL
The "legality" of immigration is historically amorphous.
But I - and I would guess nearly all nations historically - see open borders as an untenable policy. There has to be limits on how many people can become citizens. What parameters are used for limits is certainly up for debate. What is not up for debate is that entering a foreign country without permission is a crime.
So, you want to employ the force of the state in order to protect non-citizen blastocysts, but you DON'T want to employ the force of the state to protect homeless and or otherwise vulnerable citizens ?
If a fetus is a life, then abortion is murder. It is the government's job to enact justice upon murderers.
Now when you talk about employing the force of the state to "protect homeless and or otherwise vulnerable citizens", what exactly do you mean? Because what I hear is that you want to use taxpayer dollars to try to end poverty. If that's what you mean, I think that's a terrible idea. The government is awful at running programs and budgets, and I believe there are far better and more efficient ways to meet the needs of vulnerable citizens on a local level.
Do you believe the state should invest in ECTOGENESIS ?
Absolutely not
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@Fruit_Inspector
The "legality" of immigration is historically amorphous.But I - and I would guess nearly all nations historically - see open borders as an untenable policy. There has to be limits on how many people can become citizens. What parameters are used for limits is certainly up for debate. What is not up for debate is that entering a foreign country without permission is a crime.
I wonder if christopher columbus applied for a green-card when he landed in Hispaniola.
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@Fruit_Inspector
Because what I hear is that you want to use taxpayer dollars to try to violate MEDICAL PRIVACY.
Depending on Where you Live, Different People Can Bring the Lawsuit
Because the law states that a deceased person cannot file the lawsuit, that leaves us with the question, Who can file a wrongful death lawsuit? The answer typically depends on the state where the decedent lived.
Each state has its own set of laws controlling wrongful death claims, and the legal and procedural rules vary from state to state:
- Each state allows a wrongful death claim to be filed by immediate family members.
- Typically, if the decedent was married, a surviving spouse brings the lawsuit.
- If the decedent was an adult, some states also allow an adult child to bring the lawsuit.
- If the decedent is a minor child, a parent usually brings the lawsuit.
- Some states allow one member of a civil union or domestic partnership to bring a wrongful death lawsuit on behalf of their partner.
- If the decedent is a single adult, most states also allow more distant family members -- such as grandparents, siblings, or aunts or uncles -- to file the lawsuit.
Sometimes disputes arise between family members over the question of which family member will file the lawsuit. Courts will typically allow only a single wrongful death lawsuit on behalf of a decedent. If two or more lawsuits are filed, the court will probably consolidate all of those claims into a single lawsuit. [**]
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@Fruit_Inspector
Do you believe the state should invest in ECTOGENESIS ?Absolutely not
It certainly seems like a perfect solution to the "problem".
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@3RU7AL
I wonder if christopher columbus applied for a green-card when he landed in Hispaniola
I am not here to defend the actions of Christopher Columbus. I am just rejecting the idea of open borders as a bad policy for the good of a nation.
Because what I hear is that you want to use taxpayer dollars to try to violate MEDICAL PRIVACY.
Are you trying to say that child murder should be legal for the sake of protecting medical privacy?
It certainly seems like a perfect solution to the "problem".
No, parents raising their children instead of murdering them would be the perfect solution.
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@Fruit_Inspector
It certainly seems like a perfect solution to the "problem".No, parents raising their children instead of murdering them would be the perfect solution.
Do you really and truly believe that someone who would even consider aborting their unborn child SHOULD be a parent of that unborn child ?
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@Fruit_Inspector
Because what I hear is that you want to use taxpayer dollars to try to violate MEDICAL PRIVACY.Are you trying to say that child murder should be legal for the sake of protecting medical privacy?
You can't "murder" a tumor.
And even if you could, ONLY AN IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER WOULD HAVE LEGAL STANDING.
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@Fruit_Inspector
Because what I hear is that you want to use taxpayer dollars to try to violate MEDICAL PRIVACY.Are you trying to say that child murder should be legal for the sake of protecting medical privacy?
Here's the parallel argument.
(IFF) amazon and google can detect child abuse and spousal abuse with their alexa and google home devices (THEN) amazon and google SHOULD be making regular calls to the police (otherwise they are an accessory after the fact) [**]
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@Fruit_Inspector
I am just rejecting the idea of open borders as a bad policy for the good of a nation.
Do you "support" the idea of FREE-MARKETS ?
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@3RU7AL
I hope your not implying once you have an abortion you are damaged and can never parent.