Pro lifer conservatives: 800,000 painless abortion deaths is a tragedy.
Also pro life conservatives: 600,000 extremely painful covid deaths are no big deal.
Me: Do you have ANY self awareness whatsoever?
Abortion and covid
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389
I am more libertarian (though not strictly libertarian) than conservative, but I am a right-leaning libertarian so I will bite. I would say "800,000 deaths" of the unborn is a tragedy AND "600,00 deaths" of covid patients is a tragedy. Every death is a tragedy (though not all are undeserved).
So what next?
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@TheMorningsStar
If 600,000 covid deaths are a tragedy that must be prevented like the 800,000 abortion deaths, why did conservatives tend to be anti mask (to reduce covid deaths) and to this day tend to be anti vaccine(which also reduces covid deaths).
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@TheUnderdog
Not all tragedies can be legislated out of existence. I think if someone dies from an overdose that it is a tragedy, does that mean all drugs that can cause such death should be banned? Not at all.
So the question is what are the core ethics and values for deciding things. Abortion is active ending of a life, but disease transmission is passive, and thus different ethics and values can cause legislation to be different in each case.
So the question is what are the core ethics and values, which ones are you more willing to compromise on, etc. and how that translates to legislation when it comes to these two tragedies.
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@TheMorningsStar
Not all tragedies can be legislated out of existence.
True, but abortions and covid deaths can be, so should we have vaccine mandates and abortion bans?
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@TheUnderdog
The hypocrisy from the Conservative side of the spectrum is ridiculous and I fully agree with what you are saying
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@TheUnderdog
but abortions and covid deaths can be
Considering how you ignore the context of that statement it seems you are now creating a strawman. While I used the word 'can' the context makes it clear that I was using it to include 'should' as well. Again, legislation is dependent upon various values and ethics of those that make the legislation, and the context behind each of these two tragedies is different and thus can have different values and ethics be primary.
This should also be made clear with what legislation you are proposing. Abortion bans are saying 'You cannot do X' while mask mandates are saying 'You must do Y'. These are entirely different, and thus require different moral considerations.
FYI, I haven't given my opinion on either of these yet and that is on purpose. I want the focus to be on the why you are making a false equivocation between these two.
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@TheMorningsStar
Abortion bans are saying 'You cannot do X' while mask mandates are saying 'You must do Y'. These are entirely different, and thus require different moral considerations.
Abortion bans are, "If your pregnant, you must do X"(X=Childbirth). Mask mandates are, "If your a human, you must do Y"(Y=Wear a mask). I think the comparison is entirely accurate.
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@TheMorningsStar
Abortion bans are saying 'You cannot do X' while mask mandates are saying 'You must do Y'. These are entirely different
No, they're not. A women must either carry her pregnancy to term or not, so banning abortion is forcing her to carry out her pregnancy, which I find to be a much greater violation of personal liberty then telling someone they just put on a mask.
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@Double_R
so banning abortion is forcing her to carry out her pregnancy
That is a consequence of the ban, yes, but that is not what the ban itself is or the ethics/values behind the ban. To try and frame it in this way is, in a way, a strawman of the pro-life position.
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@TheUnderdog
To a degree, people who have made themselves immuno-compromised by choosing an obese lifestyle or obsessing and stressing over fake news instead of relaxing deserve some of the blame for their own deaths.
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@TheUnderdog
to this day tend to be anti vaccine
The vast majority are not anti-vax. They are anti MANDATORY vax.
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@Greyparrot
The vast majority are not anti-vax. They are anti MANDATORY vax.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/01/28/960901166/how-is-the-covid-19-vaccination-campaign-going-in-your-statestates that despite the vaccine being here for months, the majority of conservatives aren't fully vaccinated and I don't even think the majority are partially vaccinated as the people who are vaccinated in red states tend to be on the left.
Moreover consistent life ethic calls for mandatory vaccines. I don't think vaccines should be mandatory. But childbirth for fetuses also shouldn't be mandatory.
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@TheUnderdog
states that despite the vaccine being here for months, the majority of conservatives aren't fully vaccinated
Your source also conveniently leaves out that the most of the minorities in Democrat urban dystopias also haven't been vaccinated. Wonder why that is?
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@Greyparrot
To a degree, people who have made themselves immuno-compromised by choosing an obese lifestyle or obsessing and stressing over fake news instead of relaxing deserve some of the blame for their own deaths.
It sounds like you have no idea what "immuno-compromised" means. FYI, immuno-compromised doesn't necessarily have anything to do with choice.
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@TheUnderdog
Generally abortion is not a significant factor on who I vote for, and I don't have a highly developed view on it in terms of contemporary politics. If had to hazard a guess, there's probably a different reaction because they haven't heard of any doctors injecting covid into patients with the intent to end a human life. Some people literally kill for a living, explicitly marketing themselves to the interest of erasing a human being from one's family. That is, disgraceful. It's perhaps the most glaring testament that savagery is tolerated in your society.
Even if you didn't know the depth of evil that is around you, it's one of those things that lends to a basic understanding that we are not a people above sin.
It's obvious that being pro-life isn't analogous to a mask mandate, which should go without saying. Like, when is the last time you heard someone seriously advocate for people to employ contraceptives according to a mandate, never?? Think... Even if you were extremely ignorant and just banking off random experience from adult conversations, I'm baffled at how you could possibly have deduced THAT is what "pro-life" means for ethical consideration.
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@SkepticalOne
It's just a fucking freak of nature that obese people died at far higher rates then Brainiac?
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@TheMorningsStar
@TheUnderdog
Death alleviates some of the burden that the Earth endures.
Some might argue that there's not enough of it about....... Death not burden
And "tragedy" is overthink.
It seems you've missed the point. "Immuno-compromised" is far more than just being obese and/or stressing over 'fake news'.
Someome can be overweight and immuno-compromised, but one can also be underweight and immuno-compromised. Crohns, IBS, Lupus, Rheumatoid arthritis, and any number of auto-immune diseases have little to do (if anything) with obesity.
*edit* ...and just for the record Parrot boy blocked me for pointing out his ignorance. That's seriously hysterical!
Someome can be overweight and immuno-compromised, but one can also be underweight and immuno-compromised. Crohns, IBS, Lupus, Rheumatoid arthritis, and any number of auto-immune diseases have little to do (if anything) with obesity.
*edit* ...and just for the record Parrot boy blocked me for pointing out his ignorance. That's seriously hysterical!
Abortion is not killing anybody. The unborn are not born they do not have a life yet in the sense that they do not have a living body. Comparing abortion to a real life person dying a horrible painful death is stupid.
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@Greyparrot
Your source also conveniently leaves out that the most of the minorities in Democrat urban dystopias also haven't been vaccinated. Wonder why that is?
I fail to see the relevance; minorities tend to be pro choice. If the GOP is pro life, they should be pushing vaccines.
I fail to see the relevance; minorities tend to be pro choice. If the GOP is pro life, they should be pushing vaccines.
I'm saying the issue isn't as partisan as controlled media would like you to believe.
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@TheUnderdog
Me: will you stop strawmanning every position to play the "reasonable centrist"? Lol
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@Polytheist-Witch
The unborn are not born they do not have a life yet in the sense that they do not have a living body.
I know it is a little off topic from the thread, but how do you define a 'living body'?
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@bmdrocks21
I fail to see how I'm strawmaning. So many GOP commentators have advocated against vaccines which is why a majority of republicans aren't vaccinated. I don't agree with vaccine mandates for any age group, but you'd figure if you want childbirth to be mandatory you'd also push for vaccienes to be mandatory and if you were pro choice, you wouldn't care if others get the vacciene.
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@TheUnderdog
Do you think that murder and getting someone sick on accident who ends up dying is the same thing?
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@bmdrocks21
Do you think that murder and getting someone sick on accident who ends up dying is the same thing?
No, and someone who accidentally kills someone from covid is not a murderer. However, I think abortion and covid deaths are both preventable by getting vaccinated in the case of covid and by either abstinence, contraception, or by keeping your clothes on when you have sex. If one wishes to do whatever it takes to end abortion (which is a preventable form of death) then one should be consistent and do whatever it takes to end deaths from other causes (like covid).
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@TheUnderdog
So many GOP commentators have advocated against vaccines which is why a majority of republicans aren't vaccinated.
You vastly overestimate the amount of people that trust political elites in DC. Minorities in Democrat strongholds aren't getting the vaccine despite what the party leaders mandate.
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@Greyparrot
Most Americans trust the political elites in DC that they share the same party as. Democrats trust AOC and Biden. Republicans trust Rand Paul and Trump. https://abcnews.go.com/Health/vaccination-rates-lag-communities-color-due-hesitancy-experts/story?id=77272753 states that the reason why minorities aren't getting the vaccine is because they have a harder time getting one since many don't own a car and don't feel like walking the far distance to get a vaccine. They aren't hesitant, they just can't get a vaccine.
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@TheUnderdog
They aren't hesitant, they just can't get a vaccine.
That's such obvious bs. Minorities aren't disabled or retarded. Such a fucked up view of minorities most sheltered people have.