Homosexuality

Author: TheUnderdog

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@Theweakeredge
Um, the actual STUDIES demonstrate this fact, black people are segregated and kept in poorer places of concentrated poverty, where over policing happens, this is empirically true.

What is "overpolicing"? Should we have less police in crime-ridden areas? I'd hope it is empirically true that we send a lot more police to poor, dangerous areas than we send to rich, safe areas lol.
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@Theweakeredge
Black people make up only 8 less in rural areas than Urban areas despite the relatively small population in the rural areas. Furthermore, rural areas are easier to segregate due to their history of redlining. 
there is no way that rural vs urban can explain the difference between crime rates. The main difference is explained in family structure and culture.

Additionally, this chart disagrees with you-https://i.redd.it/xl23t365qub41.png, some of the highest homicide areas are in rural and black counties. you can see a red line corresponding to the black belt.

Finally, the history of segregation and concentrated poverty increases the rates of crimes, further explaining the gap. Again, have some nuance. 
ok that makes sense, but 60 years of reversing this and no relief? you cant blame it on racism forever.
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@Dr.Franklin
ok that makes sense, but 60 years of reversing this and no relief? you cant blame it on racism forever.

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I’m still laughing at the idea that you can just flagrantly get away with crimes in rich suburbs. Drug crimes MAYBE. But violent crimes? Those wealthy McMansion neighborhoods are among the most boring places on earth, absolutely chock full of the type of housewives who will call the cops on teenagers playing pranks and police officers who are bored stupid and would love nothing more than to investigate a violent crime. If someone think it’s even remotely possible that there is any significant number of violent crimes going unreported there they are out of their mind. 
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@thett3
I’m still laughing at the idea that you can just flagrantly get away with crimes in rich suburbs. Drug crimes MAYBE. But violent crimes? Those wealthy McMansion neighborhoods are among the most boring places on earth, absolutely chock full of the type of housewives who will call the cops on teenagers playing pranks and police officers who are bored stupid and would love nothing more than to investigate a violent crime. If someone think it’s even remotely possible that there is any significant number of violent crimes going unreported there they are out of their mind. 

People pay hundreds of thousands of extra dollars to live in places where violent crimes are super frequent and aren't investigated. Checks out!
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@bmdrocks21
its tiring BMD
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@TheUnderdog
Wholly inaccurate:


Marriage is a contractual agreement, ultimately only  applicable when said marriage breaks down, or for financial considerations such as taxation and assets.


Family is a construct, and marriage certainly isn't an absolute requirement thereof. 


Raising children and sustaining a long term partnership is absolutely not guaranteed by marriage...This can only be guaranteed by the sensibilities of responsible individuals.


Marriage is a ritual..... These days somewhat loosely maintained by religion and cultural inheritance.


Everything that can supposedly be achieved by marriage, can be achieved without marriage. 
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@TheUnderdog
Legalizing gay marriage does not now, and will not ever, mean that any church anywhere in the United States of any religion is ever compelled to do anything whatsoever, including perform, officiate, sanction or otherwise acquiesce to the acceptance of gay marriages as they are recognized by law in this country, due to the Free Exercise clause of the First Amendment.  

If you have been informed otherwise, you have been told wrong. 
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@Dr.Franklin
Reversing it? It's been mitigated - not reversed... also.. reddit, please cite some proper sources please.
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@bmdrocks21
I don't think there should be "policing" as it's currently practiced at all. Preventive justice is oh so ineffective.
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@thett3
Do you mean white people? Cuz' sure, yeah, they are definitely less policed and are caught less, and are.. given lesser punishments, are excused from punishment more.. so yeah. White people definitely do cause probably millions more crimes than is reported. I'm comfortable cuz' I know my stuff, and I don't have to go to a source which contradicts my point to prove it... unlike you apparently. 
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@thett3
Eh.. those statistics are definitely being interpreted incorrectly on your part first of all - second of all - yeah. Definitely, a lot of crime done by white dudes specifically is let go. And... the bodies? The increasing rate of missing cases reports isn't coming up at all to you is it? And because hispanic people weren't afforded nearly the same amount of discrimination that black people were - in the education, work, and healthcare bits, totally - but socially? They weren't slaves for hundreds of years, and there weren't jim crow laws on anywhere near the level of black people. False Equivalence.
thett3
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@Theweakeredge
Eh.. those statistics are definitely being interpreted incorrectly on your part first of all
In what way am I misinterpreting? 

 Definitely, a lot of crime done by white dudes specifically is let go. And... the bodies? The increasing rate of missing cases reports isn't coming up at all to you is it?
And you have proof, of course? Black people commit around 50% of homicides, officially. There were around 20,000 homicides in 2020, officially, meaning that black perpetrators were responsible for about 10,000 of them. Lets do the math. If, as you allege, the official statistics are wrong and black people actually commit 13% of homicides, in line with their portion of the population that means there are actually 76,923 homicides in the USA (10,000/.13), of which 56,000 go unreported. If white people are more violent than black people, meaning that black people would actually be less than 13% of the total, the number would be even higher. That would make death by white guy the police don't bother to arrest in the top 10 causes of death in the United States: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm Where are the bodies?

Not to mention hundreds of thousands if not millions of assaults/muggings/robberies etc you allege are going unreported in rich suburban neighborhoods that people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to live in. And your evidence for all of this is non existent. 

And because hispanic people weren't afforded nearly the same amount of discrimination that black people were - in the education, work, and healthcare bits, totally - but socially? They weren't slaves for hundreds of years, and there weren't jim crow laws on anywhere near the level of black people. False Equivalence.
This is an explanation for why the higher crime rates exist, not an argument that they do not exist. Again, if police are racist and let white guys off (for murder, lol) why would they let hispanics off, too?
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I simply cannot imagine hating a group of people so much that I would falsely accuse them of millions of acts of violence a year, and do it so casually. And I definitely can't imagine doing this to the group I'm a part of...white liberals make no sense to me
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@Theweakeredge
In about two weeks I’ll be out of the country until mid September, so I won’t be available for a debate until then but when I get back let’s debate the subject. Resolved: In the United States, White Americans have a violent crime rate higher than African Americans. You as Pro, me as Con 
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@Theweakeredge
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@thett3
Sure let's do your math: approximately if you assign white people 87% of homicide (and this is being generous to you), then they caused 18,000 deaths. If you notice all of your leading deaths deal in the range of hundreds of thousands - 18,000 is not significant enough in order to actually affect any of these numbers. You're waffling is nonsense. Furthermore, I never claimed that the rates of homicides were proportional to their population statistics, I am merely stating that they are generally overly represented. They have inflated rates of crime due to their increased rates of: poverty, mortality, segregation, etc. so no, their population and crime would not correlate, if statistics were less skewed, would it be less than it is currently? Yup. That's what overrepresentation typically tells us when accounting for statistical analysis. 
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@thett3
I don't debate here anymore, you know that. Furthermore, you're actual reading of sources are so intellectually dishonest I'm not sure I would want to debate you if I did.
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@Dr.Franklin
The latest data available is from 2014. Reported crime rates for some large cities have gone up over the past two years.
Sure bud
thett3
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@Theweakeredge
Sure let's do your math: approximately if you assign white people 87% of homicide (and this is being generous to you), then they caused 18,000 deaths. If you notice all of your leading deaths deal in the range of hundreds of thousands - 18,000 is not significant enough in order to actually affect any of these numbers.
I can’t tell if you simply don’t understand numbers at all or are intentionally being dishonest. We HAVE the numbers on who  perpetrated the ~20,000 reported homicides in 2019. ~50% of the perpetrators were black. White perpetrators were not 87%. This is a fact. Now, you are alleging that whites (literally) get away with murder to the point that the black portion of perps should be lower than their 13% of the population. The necessitates that there are many more murders than the official number and that most go unreported.

Furthermore, I never claimed that the rates of homicides were proportional to their population statistics, I am merely stating that they are generally overly represented.

White people are not over represented in violent crime. This is a fact. You are slandering an entire race of people for no reason, with no evidence whatsoever. Be self loathing all you want but leave me and my family the hell out of it 

I don't debate here anymore, you know that. Furthermore, you're actual reading of sources are so intellectually dishonest I'm not sure I would want to debate you if I did.
Ever noticed how every single one of your interactions on this site are negative? It’s because you treat people with an extreme disrespect, for no reason. A few weeks ago I sent you a PM asking if you wanted to pick our immigration debate, which I magnanimously decided to ask people to leave as a tie after you forfeited, back up after you had more free time and you enthusiastically told me that I would be your “debut” 

Here’s an idea…if you’re so great with sources how about you find a source showing that there are millions of violent crimes committed by whites people going unreported. Go ahead 
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@Theweakeredge
Sure bud
“Philadelphia, PA is on pace for a record-breaking year of homicides, after coming just one shy of the all-time record in 2020. As of April 29, homicides are up 36% year-over-year.
  • Portland, OR is on pace for a record-breaking year of homicides, after recording the highest total in 26 years in 2020. In the first quarter of 2021, homicides increased year-over-year by 733%. (Yes, you read that right.)
  • Columbus, OH is on pace for another record-breaking year of homicides, after breaking its all-time record in 2020. Homicides have already doubledin April year-over-year.
  • Albuquerque, NM is on pace for a record-breaking year of homicides, which are up 79% in April year-over-year.
  • Indianapolis, IN is on pace for another record-breaking year of homicides, after breaking its all-time record in 2020. Homicides are up 33%in April year-over-year.” 
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@Theweakeredge
I don't debate here anymore, you know that. Furthermore, you're actual reading of sources are so intellectually dishonest I'm not sure I would want to debate you if I did.

So, is that your go-to special pleading phrase whenever someone says something you disagree with?  

Relatedly, do you know who Carl Sagan is?
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@Theweakeredge
I don't think there should be "policing" as it's currently practiced at all. Preventive justice is oh so ineffective.

Crime rates went down as we mass incarcerated criminals in the 80's and 90's. Higher police presence has been proven to decrease homicide, rape, robbery, and other crimes in many cities.

So what exactly do you want? Has what you want ever worked?
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@TheUnderdog


If your('re) a gay person and you want to spend the rest of your life with another gay person, why can't you just get a civil union instead of a marriage?  Marriage is a religious institution.
Why would a gay person be unable to indulge in religious rituals? Is there some specific reason they should be denied the opportunity to express their beliefs?

Because of this I think gay people should get civil unions/secular marriages so they aren't forcing the church to do something that violates their religious beliefs.
The answer is simple. Simply get someone who doesn't discriminate to perform a religious ceremony. I have a friend who is an ordained dudist if you need a guy.
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@Theweakeredge
ok bud
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@thett3
Jesus you didn't follow a single argument, lmao. I wasn't saying that white people DID commit those crimes, I was going through a hypothetical using your assertions hence, "Let's do your math", I was saying, IF white people murdered an extra 8,000 people, and those homicides weren't ever discovered, THEN it would still not impact the statistics as you seem to believe. You've literally entirely dropped your argument in favor of accusation and ignorant blabber. You seem to think I'm disrepectful, kay, that's cool. Here's the thing - most of my experiences on this site aren't negative actually.

Fauxlaw, Undefeatable, and even Coal (though the last one is on and off) have had very nice and long discussions. No, you see, I don't respect you when you blatantly engage in an intellectually dishonest manner, such as, I don't know - admitting that you cherry pick and not seeing the problem with it. You literally admit to commiting a fallacy and expect me to just take your word on stuff, lmao. 
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@coal
Um... no? (I mean I do know how Sagan is, but I was ansering the first statement) - that's not my go-to, that's stating a fact. I don't do debates on here, too busy to keep deadlines, too stressed to commit full time to the website, etc - if you wanna start making accusations go ahead, but don't think I'll take it sitting down. I've shown that I engage on forums more than enough to rebuke the argument that I'm afraid of arguing. Its more that I'm tired of arguing with people who don't know what they're talking about, think less of Thett and more of Franklin and BmdRocks. 
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@bmdrocks21
False - mass incarceration has not done that, economic reform and public policy - such as giving more egalitarian education - have decreased crime. Further, statistics today nearly always show that higher police presence is negligible to increasing crime in any given area (because the more police the more crime they have to report, in order to get paid) - which leads to higher arrests in less important cases and overpopulation, as well as overpolicing. 
thett3
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@Theweakeredge
Jesus you didn't follow a single argument, lmao. I wasn't saying that white people DID commit those crimes, I was going through a hypothetical using your assertions hence, "Let's do your math", I was saying, IF white people murdered an extra 8,000 people, and those homicides weren't ever discovered, THEN it would still not impact the statistics as you seem to believe. 
Nope. This conversation started because you slandered white people as being the most violent/dangerous group of people. I showed you the statistics about how that is objectively incorrect. You’ve never had a single argument in favor of the proposition that white people have a higher violent crime rate than reported, and certainly not an argument that the white violent crime rate is the highest in the country. 8,000 additional murders unreported wouldn’t bring white people even close to the homicide rate of black people as I already showed you, the number is more akin to 50-60,000. However the idea that thousands of murders would go unreported in the USA is simply laughable. 

You’re used to being able to get away with insulting white people and getting no pushback (some white supremacist society, eh?) so when you do you just flail around lol. Go ahead and defend your initial point. Find me the numbers showing that white people have the highest rate of violent crime. 

No, you see, I don't respect you when you blatantly engage in an intellectually dishonest manner, such as, I don't know - admitting that you cherry pick and not seeing the problem with it.
It blows my mind that you think using a source for its numbers or to ascertain a certain historical fact but disregarding it’s commentary is “cherry picking.” What an authoritarian view of knowledge. Why ever read anything beyond an abstract or a headline in that case? Don’t take away exactly what the authors want you to? Cherry picking! Intellectual dishonesty! Please. 
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@TheUnderdog
I am very confused. The question of whether a church should have to perform a gay marriage is a different question. Marriages aren't always performed by churches, and I'm sure that there are churches out there that will perform one.