Free Will

Author: Dr.Franklin

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#61
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@Bones
But the fact of the matter is that you value the result so much you are willing to override the discomfort of waking up early with the results. 

Consider the following example. Not a lot of people like working out (the act of lifting weights), but almost everyone loves the result, that is, health and looks. However, as human beings, we are able to weigh and judge and action in it's entirety. This is further proven through the fact that people often take vaccinations despite the physical discomfort of doing so. The reason people get their jabs is because despite them not "wanting" the pain of the shot, they weigh the goods and find that doing so is a larger benefit, i.e something they want. 
Well stated.
#62
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@fauxlaw
Free will can be calculated in advance,
Your prefrontal cortex can only predict the future by absorbing data from the past (INFLUENCE).

Your prediction is not "free".

Your prediction is constrained by your data collection hardware (eyes and ears) and data storage hardware (memory) and your data processing hardware (prefrontal cortex) AND by the quality of data itself.

You did not properly "choose" any of these components.
#63
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@Dr.Franklin
How do you know that? It sure appears that way, but where does cause and effect end and the "will" begin?
i have literally no idea what on earth you are saying
Your "will" is a slave to your desires and instincts.
#64
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@Dr.Franklin
are you saying that people can not make a random choice?
A "choice" is necessarily contextual (predictable, identifiable).

A "random" event is necessarily non-contextual (unpredictable, unidentifiable).
#65
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@Dr.Franklin
That is trying to fight the natural way you are born.
The time and place of your birth, along with your biological endowment, greatly constrain your conscious (and subconscious) desires, which dictate your "will".
#66
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@Dr.Franklin
i am arguing that free will compatibilism EXISTS, it isnt inheritably good nor evil, its free will
Compatibilism is literally the belief that determinism is TRUE and at the same time, "free-will" is a pragmatic FICTION.
#67
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@Dr.Franklin
If there were values to control the freedom, then there would be no sexual undertones today. Take a look at vietnam. It bans pornography and cites the reason being " it is against the values of the Vietnamese people". THAT is what needs to be done, lets get rid of this whole "freedom" and "live and let live" attitude
FREEDOM = EVIL

Why did PERFECT GOD make such a horrifying planet ?
#68
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@3RU7AL
Your "will" is a slave to your desires and instincts.

The physical body is a slave to everything it desires, craves or needs but consciousness as it exists independent of the physical body runs parallel to that fact. That's why you can resist such urges and stretch the body to its limits....albeit you can only resist for so long before the physical body can no longer sustain itself. But you can see for certain how consciousness is free of the limits of the physical body, there's many ways you can demonstrate this. Mind over matter has been displayed time and time again. The point here is to cast light on the reality and distinction between the physical body vs the soul (consciousness).
If there was no distinction you would have literally no ability to control oneself, constrain, restrain, discipline, wait, resist, abstain or be patient. All those factors show how your will is separate from any mechanical instincts.

#69
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@zedvictor4
Consider the process Doc.

How random can random  be?

Ultimately a random choice is an internal choice, subject to internal data analysis.

More like a snap decision perhaps?
EVEN (IFF) A HUMAN COULD MAKE A "RANDOM" "SNAP" DECISION, THAT "RANDOM" "SNAP" DECISION COULD NOT BE CONTEXT SENSITIVE

in other words, there is absolutely no way for a "random" action or decision to be in any way even remotely useful to anyone anywhere at any time.
#70
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@EtrnlVw
Your "will" is a slave to your desires and instincts.
The physical body is a slave to everything it desires, craves or needs but consciousness as it exists independent of the physical body runs parallel to that fact. That's why you can resist such urges and stretch the body to its limits....albeit you can only resist for so long before the physical body can no longer sustain itself. But you can see for certain how consciousness is free of the limits of the physical body, there's many ways you can demonstrate this. Mind over matter has been displayed time and time again. The point here is to cast light on the reality and distinction between the physical body vs the soul (consciousness).
If there was no distinction you would have literally no ability to control oneself, constrain, restrain, discipline, wait, resist, abstain or be patient. All those factors show how your will is separate from any mechanical instincts.
Your "ability to control yourself" is a function of your ability to delay gratification for the promise of greater gratification (or the promise of "freedom" from desire) in the future.

This is learned behavior that has been imposed on you by your experiences.

AND,

Even if you were a completely disembodied spiritghostangelgod, you would still be INFLUENCED and CONSTRAINED by your own EXPERIENCES, MEMORIES, AND DESIRES AND OR GOALS.
#71
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@3RU7AL
Your "ability to control yourself" is a function of your ability to delay gratification for the promise of greater gratification (or the promise of "freedom" from desire) in the future.

This is learned behavior that has been imposed on you by your experiences.

AND,

Even if you were a completely disembodied spiritghostangelgod, you would still be INFLUENCED and CONSTRAINED by your own EXPERIENCES, MEMORIES, AND DESIRES AND OR GOALS.


Lol, this world is just a simulation of types where your physical body is how you (the controller) interface with this reality (game). Your body is simply a vehicle to navigate and interact within this created world, it's much like playing a video game really....your character (physical body) within the game is subject to all that the game simulates, but you (the controller/conscious soul) is simply observing what you are playing. You are no more that character in that game than your physical body in this world. It can easily be demonstrated, and I went over that. The ability to control oneself is the nature of your will as a conscious being that inhabits a body that "needs" things. This should be so innate to you as you read this you might as well slap yourself on the forehead.
You have a warped idea of your own sense of self. 

#72
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@EtrnlVw
There are  perhaps two levels of control.

We do not necessarily do because we think.

For example:   
Why do we allow ourselves to develop cancer?
#73
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@Double_R
I find the free will debate to be ultimately pointless. If we don't have free will, then whatever it is, is something no one has ever experienced before. Therefore not only do we lose nothing, but we don't even know what it is we are supposed to have lost.
Free-will is an E-MOTION.
#74
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@EtrnlVw
The ability to control oneself is the nature of your will as a conscious being
Even iff you were a completely disembodied spiritghostangelgod, you would still be INFLUENCED and CONSTRAINED by your own EXPERIENCES, MEMORIES, AND DESIRES AND OR GOALS.
#75
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Why did God use atoms to create the Universe? Atoms don't have free will. Oh, that's right you use atoms to create a simulation because atoms are made from two dimensional strings.  I know, I know, I'm starting to sound like ebuc.
#76
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@FLRW
Why did God use atoms to create the Universe?
Huh?  Ive never stated such and never would.  Your spouting non-sense for which there exist no evidence of, much less  rational, logical common sense to lead to such a conclusion.  unless, your mindset is that of some Greek philospher from 1000 years ago or so.

1} our finite, occupied space Universe/God is eternal ergo not created,

2} from evidence, scientist speculate no atoms existed for some time after the BBang { Fred Hoyle }/WOW! { Fuller }, i.e. there was liquid quark soup before atoms came to exist after the most recent WOW!/BBang,

3} cause, effect and resultant is process of occupied space, and complemented by ---not implemented by--   Meta-Space{ Meta-physical-1 } mind/intellect/concepts, i.e. acccess to mind is resultant of brain/nervous system that sorts the info, finds cause, effect, resultant patterns of relationships, and then applys that knowledge { info } to self and environment, ---labeled as creaton/invention---  that, is  a resultant of cause and effect, ergo,

4} there exists only the illusion of free will of humans to label themselves God and thereby allowing them to do unconscionable stuff, that, is immoral, and lacks any rational, logical common sense pathways of thought.

Bones and 3Ru come closet to absolute to recognizing the truth of this topic. Hats off to them. Meta-Space mind/intellect/concept access is a resultant of, not the cause.  Or as Fuller states it and I paraphrase...... "experience precedes thought"...i.e ' with no experience of a something { occupied space } there can be  no acccess to mind/intellect/concepts.


#77
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@ebuc
It worked.
#78
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@FLRW
Why did God use atoms to create the Universe?
Huh?  Ive never stated such and never would.  Your spouting non-sense for which there exist no evidence of, much less  rational, logical common sense to lead to such a conclusion.  unless, your mindset is that of some Greek philospher from 1000 years ago or so.

1} our finite, occupied space Universe/God is eternal ergo not created,

2} from evidence, scientist speculate no atoms existed for some time after the BBang { Fred Hoyle }/WOW!, i.e. there was liquid quark soup before atoms came to exist after the most recent WOW!/BBang,

3} cause, effect and resultant is process of occupied space, not of Meta-Space{ Meta-physical-1 } mind/intellect/concepts, i.e. acccess to mind is resultant of brain/nervous system that sorts the info, finds cause, effect, resultant patterns of relationships, and then applys that knowledge { info } to self and environment, ---labeled as creation/invention---  that, is  a resultant of cause and effect, ergo,

4} there exists only the illusion of free will of humans to label themselves God and thereby allowing them to do unconscionable stuff, that, is immoral, and lacks any rational, logical common sense pathways of thought.

Bones and 3Ru come closet to absolute to recognizing the truth of this topic. Hats off to them

#79
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@ebuc

The universe was born with the Big Bang as an unimaginably hot, dense point. ... As space expanded, the universe cooled and matter formed. One second after the Big Bang, the universe was filled with neutrons, protons, electrons, anti-electrons, photons and neutrinos.

#80
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@FLRW
The universe was born with the Big Bang

False non-sense.  Occupied space ---includes physical reality--- cannot be created { born } ergo 1st law of thermodynamics, not is created nor destroyed is and eternal truth, not a  concept derived by human free will creation on the Sabbath just  so they can play football on the next day.

Experience precedes thought ergo no experience no access to eternally existent cosmic principles --aka Meta-Space { Meta-physical-1/Spirit-1 } ex there exists eternally, only five possible regular/symmetrical and convex polyhedra of Universe.

Six known degrees of freedom occur on three axial rotation, ---in Space that is 6 directions---   that are the first set of limits to any illusions of ' free will ' abilities.
..." What Is Pitch, Yaw, and Roll?

..The first aspect of flight student pilots must grasp is the concept of aircraft axes: that flying an airplane is a three-dimensional task. It is unlike driving a motor vehicle down the street or sailing a boat on the surface of water. Once an airplane is in the sky, these three dimensions affect it, and a good pilot comprehends what this means.
.....Gaining at least a working understanding of how pitch, yaw, and roll work can be applied to aircraft operation, no matter its shape or how large or small it might be. From the most imposing airship to the nimblest glider, these aircraft axes are at work upon every manmade object in the sky."...

None of the above, when restricted limit the phenomena of torque/twist ergo at another 6 degrees of freedom will have to be considered to prevent torque/twist.

3Ru will tell you that, ' will' exists, its just not free.  I say both are just very good illusions.














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#81
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@3RU7AL
it isnt horrifying, free will isnt freedom your talking about
#82
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@Dr.Franklin
it isnt horrifying, free will isnt freedom your talking about
I see.

Are you not even slightly concerned about the untold number of children that are molested on a daily basis ?
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#83
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@3RU7AL
i am concerned
#84
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@Dr.Franklin
i am concerned
Why does PERFECT GOD allow this ?
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#85
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@3RU7AL
  1. God gives us free will, because free will is inherently good.
  2. Free will entails the possibility of doing what is contrary to God's will (this is what we know as evil).
  3. Thus, evil exists, because of man's actions, rather than because of God.

#86
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@Dr.Franklin
3. Thus, evil exists, because of man's actions, rather than because of God.
(IFF) you can stop child abuse and you DON'T stop child abuse (THEN) you are guilty of being a party to child abuse
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#87
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@3RU7AL
IFF) you can stop child abuse and you DON'T stop child abuse (THEN) you are guilty of being a party to child abuse
well no, it is the result of mans actions and does not involve God
#88
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@Dr.Franklin
Knowing the consequences for certain is indistinguishable from intending those consequences.
#89
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@Sum1hugme
Knowing the consequences for certain is indistinguishable from intending those consequences.
Well stated.
#90
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@Dr.Franklin
(IFF) you can stop child abuse and you DON'T stop child abuse (THEN) you are guilty of being a party to child abuse
well no, it is the result of mans actions and does not involve God
YOU, I'm talking about YOU.

Leave god out of this for a moment.