---Star Trek Deep Space Nine (DS9) Mafia: DP1---

Author: bsh1

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#61
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@Buddamoose
Post #53 I posted my initial thoughts on everyone thats posted so far. My thoughts on Gp, Warren, Vaarka, and Supa had nothing to do with anything you've said thusfar. I refererenced our ongoing convo in my read on Wyl but there's nothing wrong with that. My reads will be influenced and contorted a bit by how other peeps read them same as everyone.

Unvote. Didnt cross my mind. Yer aggressive thinking is both annoying af and comes off townish. Hate it when that happens lol.
#62
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I assumed Supa was a newb but he just modded the last game? Can someone uodate me on how much he's played? If he isn't actually a newb than that changes things. 
#63
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@Aporia
I've only played a few games with Warren and based off of my experience with him I dont think his post is contrived. 

Was there an RVS stage in the games he played? If yes, which there is almost always an RVS, are you really gonna posit now,  games later, is the first time he's gonna posit that RVS votes are to lynch, and votes placed during RVS are therefore scummy? 

That doesn't make sense, that kind of observation is a foundational observation that will dictate DP1 reads and be stated immediately, as evidenced by him making the observation in his first post. 

There a large difference between positing experienced players are equal or easier to read than inexperienced. And positing that multiple games in, a person will not have yet encountered the concept of RVS and the votes contained therein. 

One of them is debateable, the other is a position that requires ignoring that there is an RVS stage in every game... and so of course its reasonable a player could have played in multiple games and still think votes during RVS are both scummy and with the purpose of lynching.

Theres "bad" play, and then there's this. This would be so awful that you would have to assume the player is entirely oblivious and is mentally incapable of absorbing SoP's that are present in every game. 

Do you have links to the games he's played in? Or at least the name so i can pull them up via the DDO archive? Maybe he is truly that oblivious. 
#64
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@Buddamoose
Let me get back to you I'll check. Also how experienced is Supa?
#65
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@Buddamoose
@Aporia
Liking Budda's reaction to my intro. Feels genuine, and though I feel like mafia could fake it, I don't think they're as likely to be so adamant. Glad that someone who is unfamiliar with me was the first to respond. I was afraid someone would call me out first.

Aporia, that post was indeed fabricated, I was hoping to see someone with whom I haven't played interact with someone they assumed to be a noob. The last time we played together was a long time ago, and my game has improved drastically. I have been playing regularly on MafiaUniverse since then, and though my game definitely still needs work (specifically as town) I am considerably better than last time we played.

Catching up, will offer thoughts ASAP
#66
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Got him moxed up with someone else I think. Reading back on some old games he definitely knows the difference. And I see Supa in games as far back as nine months ago on DDO but hes still voting like a newb? Im going to need to revise a few reads.
#67
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@Aporia
Somewhat. He started playing in the twilight of DDO, and therefore he unfortunately was rarely able to experience a game that wasn't marred with inactivity, subs, or other issues. He's probably been playing a little less than a year if I were to guess?
#68
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@warren42
Fuckface lol I just pulled up TWD mafia from a while back and you werent even that bad then. What did you learn from yer fabricated post? Posted right before me lol.
#69
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@Aporia
Funny how my post sat there for an hour and a half with no reaction from you but Wylted votes me and you do the same a whopping three minutes later.

It seems you're at least considering the possibility of gray being mafia in this post. Assume for a second he is; do you believe this quick response to Wylted indicates they're aligned or just that he was waiting and opportunistic?
#70
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@Aporia
Woops, i didn't see ur fleshed out reads post. 

I need more info on Supa. His vote was lazy and contradictory. In one post he wonders why you havent claimed yet but precedes to lay pressure on me immediately thereafter. His play isnt beneficial in any way but I've never played with him so I dont know exactly what to make of it. He seems new so his anti-town play is mostly a null from me.

This is actually a very solid read, and I was mulling his vote over too, because it stood out. Basically, he belied he wanted my claim, but rather than put more pressure on me, he instead votes someone else. 

Supa is def in the category of experienced, but still getting the ropes down when it comes to what is or is not pro/anti-town play. This is why I personally don't factor in pro-town / anti-town play in regards to inexperienced players, or those still familiarizing themselves with pro-town and anti-town behaviors. 

The likelihood you see an anti-town action from such players increases exponentially and no longer becomes a solid indicator of affiliation. 

You know what, I'm sticking you in the town pile for now. I like those reads, even if i disagree with some, illustrates genuine and careful analysis, very towny, very hard to fake. Especially with Dudz, as your sus, but seeking to explore his meta as opposed to jumping straight to, "sO aNtI-tOwN, hE mUsT be sCuM." Which would have been the opportunistic and easy read to make.

#71
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I'll be operating under the same assumption as Wylted, that this game is 9v3 unless there's some indication otherwise (in which case it'd probably be something live 9v2v1). It's kinda weird getting back into DDO (or DART) meta where things like this aren't disclosed and characters are usually relevant. Should be fun.
#72
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@warren42
My first thought was aligned. I remember, as scum, all too often a shitty goon would be quick to tie themselves to me in the Dp. Drove me nuts so maybe that's why that was my first thought. Also, it wouldn't make sense not to jump on my vote for Budda if his vote was merely wagoning TO wagon. The fact that he jumped on the second vote rather than the first implies that it was him wagoning a fellow goon rather than just randomly jumping on. 
#73
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@warren42
Oooh, so that post was a reaction test? Gotta say, quite clever, not bad at all if trus. Given that the post is/was so easily exposed as only being sensible if fabricated, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on that. 

I'm gonna still keep you in the town pile. 
#74
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@Aporia
I don't remember TWD, when was it? If it was in the past 8 months or so I probably haven't improved much, if giving that sort of benchmark helps. Sorry to waste your time haha

Anyway, I think that Budda's reaction was decent. In a minute I'll look at the discussion between the two of you that ensued and get back to you if that helped at all.
#75
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@Greyparrot
I mean if I idolize anyone it's Buddha...and I sniffed him out as scum on day one last game.....don't make that mistake lol!
What the hell does this mean?
#76
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I think we're starting to establish a nice "town-bloc" here. Fmpov Aporia, Warren, and obviously myself are likely town. That's 3 down, and if all town a block is 1 away from holding over half the amount of votes needed to lynch. 

Fmpov this has been a strong AF start to the game 🔥💯

#77
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Since when has GP ever idolized you? 

Wylted/GP scum team calling it now 

The last two games ive played in with Vaarka his initial reads have been exactly like this. Drawing loose connections between players and calling out scum teams. This has me leaning town, but not at the point where I'd conclusively put him in the town pile, as such posts are easily fabricated. Its in line with his meta though, so that counts for something. 
#78
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@Buddamoose
I feel like when you ask aporia for reads at the end of page 2 it's still pretty early to have legitimate opinions. Would you agree or disagree?
#79
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On page 2, still riding on the Wylted/GP gut
#80
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@warren42
Hopefully we can catch the mafia!
this just feels fake

#81
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@Buddamoose
Lol Budda going through the archives I just realized it was you, me (when I was noumena), and F16 putting them together back in the day. Takes me back.

As to yer point on Supa, that kind of ties in to my earlier point about newb sniping by scum. Its why I prefer a sliding ratio of anti-town/pro-town behaviors in relaton to time played. I can only find three games of his (and no beginner game but could be because theyre not archived and DDO is hell spam now) and he seemed like an anti-town townie in the one that I read through. Still might be an avenue to explore as we move forward.
#82
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@Aporia
So do you think that Grey is a bad player and would be likely to make that same mistake?
#83
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I forgot spinko types "yer" instead of "your/you're"...
#84
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@Buddamoose
Can you re-explain why you still believe I'm town for fabricating that post? What about it could/would I not do as scum?
#85
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@Vaarka
That was the only part of that that felt fake? A bit offended Vaarka ;)
#86
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Town read Budda and am feeling town on Warren too. Dont see scum motivation in opening yerself up to that kind of suspicion just to claim it was to get a read. Also Vaarka feels contrived at posts 79 and 80 imo.
#87
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@warren42
That was the part that stood out the most baby
#88
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I was gonna type something but Warren's reply made me forget

I'll get back to you on that
#89
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@warren42
I have trouble because i definitely think that Grey is an idiot but I can't recall much about his meta. Truth be told I wouldn't be surprised but I have no evidence to support such a hunch.
#90
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@Aporia
Also, it wouldn't make sense not to jump on my vote for Budda if his vote was merely wagoning TO wagon

This couldnt of been his motive behind the flip. It doesn't make sense given the circumstances. You were the only one voting me, and he already showed one vote isnt sufficient to cause him to bw someone he disagrees with, as he opened with voting you. 

If his voting motive was to establish a wagon ASAP then his first vote by consequence doesn't make sense. To hold his voting behavior is sensible would require you to hold it is sensible to vote with the clear motive of you being at the time an unknown quantity and him disagreeing with pressuring experienced players. But then turn right around and vote in a manner that is antithetical to that first clear motive. 

Not sure how you can view that voting behavior and go, "well obviously his primary motive was to generate a wagon with no regard to whether he agrees with the wagon and whether or not that player is a known or unknown quantity. 

I'm just saying dude, it's becoming pretty obvious your letting him bw'ing you affect how your viewing his behavior. I get it, you don't want to FoS someone who bw'd you because then they'll usually stop bw'ing you. But he's gonna stop anyways because he never agreed with your wagon to begin with. So once another wagon gains comparable steam, he's gonna abandon voting with you anyways, whether or not his motive is to generate a wagon ASAP, which doesn't make sense as a motive anyways.