---Star Trek Deep Space Nine (DS9) Mafia: DP1---

Author: bsh1

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#31
Wylted
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@Vaarka
Okay, cool to know you're useless at night and all, but what is the bolded. 
Obviously the rest is not meant to be explained until I claim. Also I never said my role was useless. I said I consider my role useless. In my hands the role is useless, in yours it would not be.

#32
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@Vaarka
Since when has GP ever idolized you? 
Most people idolize me. You're overthinking the braggadocioness of a narccissist. Also he clearly chearleads me a bit because we both are clearly part of a small handfull of paleo conservatives or beliefs that closely resemble that here. I don't think I've ever disagreed with a statement he has made, so he likely has never disagreed with a statement I have made, so it would be natural to cheerlead me a bit. He chearleads me in political threads, and you avoid those threads so I don't expect you to have seen it, not that it is all that noticable anyway.

#33
Greyparrot
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@Wylted
That is a bit weird to say... looking back... that you think I will auto-buddy you in a mafia game.

UNVOTE VTL WYLTED
#34
Greyparrot
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I mean if I idolize anyone it's Buddha...and I sniffed him out as scum on day one last game.....don't make that mistake lol!


#35
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Now you guys got one of my fans to turn on me. Thanks. I hope you feel good about yourselves. I gave you guys a soft claim early on that will take quite a bit of bullshitting to walk back. Unless you're looking to actually lynch me I think you should back off.
#36
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Now he is lying about being one of my fans. Who am I nickleback. Just own it dude
#37
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@Wylted
You're missing the point. Ask buddha. I'm just as vicious to my buddies in a mafia game.... (he of course killed me on night one for it)
#38
Vader
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Where is Budda claim
#39
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I don't see it. Until then, VTL Aporia

#40
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Hi guys, I'm excited to try out this game. Hopefully we can catch the mafia!

Quick question: Why are people voting for other people already? We still have plenty of time. I think people voting for other people to be lynched might be the mafia.

#41
Buddamoose
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@Aporia
Not what I said. Being experienced doesn't mean one can't give off a read just like anyone else.

This is being obtuse to the point, which was in the likelihood of behaviors indicative of affiliation being taken. The phrases,

"experienced players are far less llikely to discern their affiliation if pressured then inexperienced players" 

and 

"Being experienced doesn't mean one CANT behave in a manner indicative of affiliation" 

are not mutually exclusive as it appears you think they are. Both points can be true, because one is talking about degree of likelihood, and one is referencing solely whether or not it can happen at all. 

That was an intellectually lazy response that didnt address the core issue at play with an opinion that pressuring experienced players is more beneficial than pressuring experienced players. 

When that facially doesn't make sense because "formidability" lies in how difficult it is to gauge that "formidable" players affiliation, and acting as if an experienc player is more likely to produce content indicative of affiliation when pressured, as opposed to an inexperienced player, is akin to positing it's more likely someone who has never played baseball before, is gonna play the game better than someone who has played for years. 

By all means take that stance if you want to, don't be surprised when it gets pointed out as being poor strategy. Because when I am figuring out a course of action, a gameplan if you will, I'm going to choose to isolate and attack the Pro-Bowl corner, not the rookie who has never played a game before, or even only a small handful of games. Why? Because obviously that pro-bowl corner is going to be worse at pass coverage than the rookie 😂.
#42
Aporia
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You can think it's poor sttategy if you want, that doesn't bother me.

As I said earlier I get better results pressuring and reading experienced players first. As scum it's too easy to exploit newb play and manipulate town into wagoning off a faux scum read. You've been playing long enough to know this. Scum must lie and part of that means conjuring fake reads. Newbs are the easiest target of this strategy. So early newb pressure is counter-intuitive imo.

Therefore i go after more experienced players (I think random pressure is veiled BS). As I said earlier (you didn't respond), its a win-win. Evincing a town read on a relatively good player allows for pro-town buddying (sharing reads, building a vote bloc) and evincing a scum read allows for early investigations which (ideally) would end in adding a good player to the town bloc (as I mentioned) or getting rid of an experienced mafioso early on.

Yes experienced players are sometimes harder to read but I think yer overstating it tbh. 1) Being more experienced there are more games historically to draw on when determining their town play (the base read if you will). 2) Whereas playing anti-town isnt necessarily a scum tell for a newb (mistakes are easily exploitable by scum looking to start a wagon) it can more often than not reasonably be one for an experienced player with knowledge of SOP and enough games under their belt to be held accountable to some standards of play (as town). Like I said, disagree all you want but it's a winning strategy.
#43
Aporia
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@Buddamoose
Forgot to tag you in my response
#44
Aporia
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@Vader
What is the goal of yer vote.
#45
Aporia
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@Buddamoose
Just re-read yer initial reason for voting Wyl. i
I think yer misinterpreting the reasoning there. 1) He unvoted me because I gave him the info that he requested. He asked who I was and for an explanation of my reasoning. I granted him that. So there would be no reason to keep his vote on me unless he wanted a claim which is not what he asked for when he voted me. So i consider that definitely null.

On to his vote of you, you said it yerself that the point of RVS is to generate discussion and content so if that's one's goal than surely you can see that me pressuring you because yer experienced and him jumping on to just start sonewhere wouldn't require us to vote for different peeps. Discussion is discussion even if we're coming from different places right? I can see yer point about ceding momentum and control kinda I guess but it's not standing out to me too much. Noticd he had to let everyone know that he might change his mind on the vote later (wow so unique lol) so it's not like his post doesn't still reek of feigned control. 
#46
Buddamoose
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 I don't think greyparrot is a mindless ape, that will automatically vote for whoever I vote for.
Then you are pretty much admitting you pulled that reasoning out of ur rear? Cause, to get this straight, GP is not sus for bw'ing because because he idolizes you so that explains why, but him idolizing you actually isnt going to generally cause a bw. 

I flipped votes because aporia gave me the information I requested. It's that simple. I already gave a soft claim on my very first post. I think that is sufficient. 

This actually does not provide a reason for why, a self proclaimed narcissist, would cede control of a DP, amd bw onto a wagon based upon reasoning you were explicit and clear that you didn't agree with. 

This, again, is about as natural as Kanye West trying to act humble. And your responses literally did not address the core issue present with your behavior, that being, there is still no sensible motive behind the flip, and the flip itself is at odds with your natural behavior as a, self-proclaimed" narcissist.

Idc what you soft-claimed. Your behavior here is at odds with your general natural behavior. And when players start acting in a manner that's not natural, not "genuine", thats a clear sign of shenanigans being afoot.
#47
Buddamoose
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@Aporia
Its almost like you didn't read my post

On to his vote of you, you said it yerself that the point of RVS is to generate discussion and content so if that's one's goal than surely you can see that me pressuring you because yer experienced and him jumping on to just start sonewhere wouldn't require us to vote for different peeps

He unvoted me because

Him unvoting you has nothing to do with it. Like I said, its almost as if you didnt read my post and are just arguing against me because I'm pointing out your percieved optimal path in RVS is not consistent with experienced players being overwhelmingly generally better in any competition or sport. 

As i said, if you are forming a gameplan in say football, you don't form a gameplan around attacking the cornerback that's a veteran and is considered a formidable corner, you go after the rookie, it simply put generates success far more often than going after that veteran who has seen it all before. 

I can see yer point about ceding momentum and control kinda I guess but it's not standing out to me too much

And i would personally surmise this is most likely because he wagoned with you and you don't want to scum read him because that likely means he drops his vote from the wagon you tried starting. 


#48
Buddamoose
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On to his vote of you, you said it yerself that the point of RVS is to generate discussion and content so if that's one's goal than surely you can see that me pressuring you because yer experienced and him jumping on to just start sonewhere wouldn't require us to vote for different peeps

My first post:,

Normally during RVS flipping votes isn't that sus cause the point is to generate wagons to produce substantive content. But his flip couldn't of been motivated by that, as his vote was already on the largest wagon at the time

To further cement it not being a sensible motive behind the flip, you were the only vote on that wagon. Him voting what he would prefer, that being an "unknown quantity", would not be derailing a game during RVS. Your acting as if your wagon was already established as the lead wagon, when it wasn't the lead wagon... 

2 wagons with 1 vote each during RVS, does not derail a game by a third person going, "neither of you two are pressuring smartly" and voting a different person. In fact, that is fmpov what a townie would do. Why? The goal of town is for town to control the direction of DP's. On DP1 one doesn't know who is or is not town, so if you see people placing votes you disagree with, as town you attempt to assert control and drive it in a direction you agree with because the only player one knows is conclusively town or strong town during RVS, is oneself. 
#49
Buddamoose
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@Aporia
Also, I'm curious, for someone who thinks gauging the affiliation of experienced players is equal to or lesser than the difficulty of gauging inexperienced players, where are ur reads? Its almost like already the results ur getting from the course of action aren't in line with your theory 👍. 
#50
Aporia
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@Buddamoose
Yer analogy is completely inapplicable to this situation simply because as town I have no idea who is on my team and who isn't. That's the point of this game and it's why a strategy that takes these unknowns into account and works off them is optimal. The only group in this game who know who the opposing CB (per yer analogy) is are scum. Lack of information and unknowns are the name of the game and it is for this reason specifically that I'm not prioritizing going after the rookies. Yer talking past my points since I specifically brought this up when I made my point about scum conjuring tells. Scum strategy tells you to go after the weaker players earlier. Town strategy tells you to examine players who could be helpful and to prioritize either a) making them into a town asset or b) getting rid of them.

#51
Buddamoose
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Quick question: Why are people voting for other people already? We still have plenty of time. I think people voting for other people to be lynched might be the mafia.

And almost as if to prove my point, here we have a new player, exposing they are town in the very first post they make. Mistaking RVS votes for votes to lynch, and thinking all those voting during RVS are likely scum, is textbook inexperienced town. At that point what, 5 players had voted? So to hold them as scum would require holding ratios are beyond the general maximum of 1/3 scum to town. 

Like i said, you pressure inexperienced players because they will expose their affiliation more often than not quickly into producing content, and often times in the first post. Experienced players the opposite holds true, where it is more likely their affiliation remains ungaugable until much later in the game. 
#52
Buddamoose
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TR's- Warren

SR's- Wylted

Everyone else- currently null.
#53
Aporia
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@Buddamoose
I didn't say it was easier or equal. I said it should be prioritized and wasn't as insurmountable a task as you made it out to be. As to my reads I think it's a little early but i have a few to start. 

I need more info on Supa. His vote was lazy and contradictory. In one post he wonders why you havent claimed yet but precedes to lay pressure on me immediately thereafter. His play isnt beneficial in any way but I've never played with him so I dont know exactly what to make of it. He seems new so his anti-town play is mostly a null from me.

Warren is also null. IIRC hes not all that great of a player so his mostly useless post doesnt stand out to me.

I have a soft scum read of GP. And I mean singing the Star Spangled Banner level soft so dont take too much from it rn. His voting pattern is a little sus as I mentioned earlier and hes being a bit contradictory. On the one hand he parroted Wyl but continued pressure even after I gave Wyl the info he asked for. Then he turned around the pressure on to Wyl which makes more sense coming from him.

Yer a mostly null read rn but I'm starting to lean town. I think I remember you being a bit more aggressive as town. Always reminded me of Danielle if she was a dude just based off of yer demeanor and writing style in-game. I dont agree with you as far as the newb/experienced pressure thing goes but I'm not going to extrapolate affiliation based off of an SOP disagreement since I know it might seem far fetched to some.

Vaarka is null so far to me. A few of my last games on DDO were with him and I see nothing out of the ordinary so far.

Wyl is null as well. If my suspicion of parrot grows it might trace back to him tho nust because I cant scratch the vote timing from last night. But yeah I think yer over-extrapolating with him. Middle of the night and only 30 posts in the Dp- doesn't seem unreasonable to jump on the only other existent wagon at the time if only to generate some discussion/reads. His vote history this game isnt sus except in possible relation to gp but thats just something well keep an eye on. His soft claim is enough for me atm.

#54
Aporia
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@Buddamoose
Warren isnt new he just isnt good
#55
Buddamoose
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@Aporia
On a final note, if the purpose of your pressure was to get me to produce content to gauge affiliation, congrats, the content has been produced. So where is your read. If you haven't been able to gauge it yet, how schocking, it's almost as if its harder to gauge experienced players affiliation. 

Because 3+ lengthy posts later, you should reasonably have gauged my affiliation by now given inexperienced players generally belie their affiliation in that time period. 

RVS is over, you got your content. So either you havent been able to gauge my affiliation, which proves my point. Or you think im scum, hence ur vote is still on me. In which case, please do elaborate upon that. 

Go on hot shot, show us all how much easier it is to gauge experienced players affiliation rather than inexperienced players.  
#56
Aporia
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@Buddamoose
Lol I posted my reads already. The more I think about it the more townish you seem tbh. Seriously are you Danielle's alt account or something?
#57
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@Aporia
Warren isnt new he just isnt good

So basically, he should already know RVS votes arent to lynch? Now, why aren't you pointing that out as a manufactured post then? If he's not new, he already knows, considering every game has an RVS, that RVS votes are not to lynch. 

By my estimation you should be viewing that post as contrived and a scum tell based upon you knowing he's not new, just bad. But there is a difference between being bad, and positing a read that is 100% of the time exposed as unsound when it's made, and it is made often. 

#58
Aporia
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@Buddamoose
I've only played a few games with Warren and based off of my experience with him I dont think his post is contrived. 
#59
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@Aporia
By reads i mean independent ones. The only "reads" you've given are in response to the ones I've given. On top of that, if you think im town, why are you still voting for me? 

Remember, your vote was to try and gauge my affiliation. You already have by your own admission. Yet, your vote hasnt changed? Which would lead me to believe there is a motive present besides gauging my affiliation. Unless there's not, in which case, it circles right back around to, "why are you pressuring someone you think is town? 





Topic's author
#60
bsh1
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Vote Count

Budda (2/7) - Aporia, Wylted
Wylted (2/7) - Budda, Grey
Aporia (1/7) - Supa