Do grades determine your intelligence?

Author: drlebronski

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#31
FLRW
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Einstein definitely did not fail at high school. Einstein was born on 14 March in Ulm, in Germany, in 1879. The next year, his family moved to Munich. At the age of 7, he started school in Munich. At the age of 9, he entered the Luitpold-Gymnasium. By the age of 12 he was studying calculus. Now this was very advanced, because the students would normally study calculus when they were 15 years old. He was very good at the sciences. But, because the 19th-century German education system was very harsh and regimented, he didn’t really develop his non-mathematical skills (such as history, languages, music and geography). In fact, it was his mother, not his school, who encouraged him to study the violin – and he did quite well at that as well.
In 1895, he sat the entrance examinations to get into the prestigious Federal Polytechnic School (or Academy) in Zurich, Switzerland. He was 16, two years younger than his fellow applicants. He did outstandingly well in physics and mathematics, but failed the non-science subjects, doing especially badly in French – so he was not accepted. So in that same year, he continued his studies at the Canton school in Aargau (also called Aarau). He studied well, and this time, he passed the entry exams into the Federal Polytechnic School.
So the next year, he finally started studying at the Federal Polytechnic in Zurich (even though he was now one year younger than most of his fellow students). Also in the year 1896, even though he was only 16 years old, he wrote a brilliant essay that led directly to his later work in relativity.
So he definitely did not fail his high school, and definitely was not a poor student.

30 days later

#32
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@drlebronski
To some degree but I think it does more to reveal a person’s level of work ethic. Higher grades generally cast the impression of a hard worker. This isn’t always the case and because of how boring classrooms can be, and the fact that a lot of jobs will pose a unique challenge to the worker every day that keeps the job interesting.

#33
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@ethang5
Back in his days, 1 points was the best grade for a student so yes, Einstein was decent.

However, Thomas Edison was pretty bad at studies even though he improved the design of the light bulb.

178 days later

#34
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if you take intelligence as a term by itself it is very vast because there are many types of inteligence, emotional logical musical...
so no if you concider that grades determine your intelligence overall that would  be simply incorrect.
however if we are talking about logical, mathematical intelligence it is correct because for example :
someone who has a good logic will do great in a math exam and would get a good grade 
on the other side someone who doesn't have good logic or a good understanding of mathemathical facts would get a bad grade 
it does not mean you are dumb it just means that you are lacking of logic
#35
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@iloveshin
A Zedku for iloveshin


Intelligence is,

And all data functions thereof are.

Levels of,

Human intelligence commensurate with,

An individuals ability to acquire,

Store, modify and output data.

___________________________


So what is it about shin that you find so alluring?
#36
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@zedvictor4
i'm sorry but alluring about what i didn't really understand the question that you asked me ?
#37
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I'm sorry but alluring about what i didn't really understand the question that you asked me ?
Requires punctuation.

Are you sorry but alluring?


Or do you mean:

I'm sorry, but alluring about what?  I didn't really understand the question that you asked me.


If so, then I was asking why do you love shin.


#38
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Kind of, they don't determine ur intelligence as many children go through a lot of pressure and anxiety therefore not resulting in the true form on the other hand hey do as they reflect how much ur getting on with and if u need any help to reach a standard level.
#39
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I believe grades reflect and determine how smart you are according to the school system. The school system is not necessarily accurate. When it is so inaccurate, we reform and improve it. For example, the southerners stopped learning that the black people were being treated fine because this is a lie and does not help with anything.
#40
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@Intelligence_06
Do the still teach them that  a GOD created everything a few months ago?


#41
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@zedvictor4
They teach that religion is(was) important to society and made us learn some facts about each of them.
#42
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Yes it does because how else would someone test their intelligence? Sometimes it has flaws, like not finishing in time.
#43
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@Yuga
Sometimes it has flaws, like not finishing in time.
...while giving evidence contrary to your claim.

7 days later

#44
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Grades only prove that you are good in a certain system, not actual intelligence. 
#45
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This is classic correlation/causation.

If I gave a random student good grades, it would not affect their intelligence, i.e., cause them to be more intelligent. They might apply themselves more, boost their confidence etc., but it might also give them bad study habits/work ethic and give them poor outcomes later in life. I doubt this has ever really been studied at scale as lying about a student's actual grades would probably never get approved by modern ethics boards.

However, getting consistently good/excellent grades tends to correlate with higher intelligence. How well it correlates will depend on how well the grading system is designed. This is the explicit intent of grading systems, IQ scores, etc.; to measure intelligence.

19 days later

#46
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They can, but not necessarily. Depends on the difficulty of the class.  Getting a 3.7 in organic chemistry is not the same as getting a 3.7 in Introduction to American Government 101
#47
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Good grades does determine intelligence. It is one way to measure intelligence.There are always a few exceptions to the rule. But standards are not built on exceptions. 

Einstein did not get high grades but he was able to continue his education till he found what he was most interested in. He then demonstrated his higher intelligence in his field of work.
#48
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Welp, based off the APA's definition of intelligence:

The ability to derive information, learn from experience, adapt to the environment, understand, and correctly utilize thought and reason. [1]
I would argue good grades do not determine intelligence, since they do not measure the ability to learn from experience. They do measure everything else in that definition, though.

However, the APA's definition of "measures of intelligence" is:

a series of norm-referenced tests used to determine an individual’s ability to learn, reason, understand concepts, and acquire knowledge. [2]
I would argue that grades do fall under this category, as they measure students' ability to learn, reason on tests, prove they understand concepts, and show they have acquired knowledge on a subject.

Though some could argue that grades do not measure acquiring of knowledge and are not norm-referenced. This could be true depending on a school's grading policies. There is a push in many schools and universities to grade students based on race and gender as opposed to objective standards:

Oak Park and River Forest High School administrators will require teachers next school year to adjust their classroom grading scales to account for the skin color or ethnicity of its students.

School board members discussed the plan called “Transformative Education Professional Development & Grading” at a meeting on May 26, presented by Assistant Superintendent for Student Learning Laurie Fiorenza. [3]
Changing grading scales on the basis of skin color is not norm referenced, and therefore does not constitute a viable measure of intelligence. However, there is also a push to remove many grading standards completely:

Equitable grading involves eliminating the 100-point grade scale and not penalizing students for late work and missed assignments if they can demonstrate subject mastery and even if they must retake tests or redo other assessments along the way.

Feldman says these assessment practices can help address stubborn achievement gaps and streamline the grading hodgepodge. But moves toward equitable grading seem to be rolling out in a patchwork fashion, and not without pushback and confusion. [4]
Putting aside the blatant racist connotations of such policies, since that is an entirely different discussion in and of itself, removing standards on the norm-referenced tests fails to test anything, meaning grades at participating schools do not measure intelligence.

So, basically, it depends where you go to school and what the grades are measuring.

SOURCES:
#49
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@Lair77
Getting a 3.7 in organic chemistry is not the same as getting a 3.7 in Introduction to American Government 101
You're right. Chemistry is easier. 😏

No seriously though. I took an intro to American government course in college as an elective and the amount of studying one has to do to become competent on American Government is, like, astronomically massive. You need to know the Supreme Court cases, the Annotated Constitution, the notes on the Constitutional Convention, the Federalist and Antifederalist papers, historical laws passed by Congress, and all the different types of constitutional interpretation methods and the justifications behind them.

At least in chemistry almost everyone agrees with the laws of logic and the scientific method. In American government, you literally have Supreme Court cases decided on a whim, with no reference to original intent, previous Supreme Court cases, or even any actual facts. But that then becomes the law of the land until some new Supreme Court case repeals the previous ruling. And in Congress there are so many different philosophies on what Congress is supposed to do that you often get laws passed that blatantly violate the Constitution, but it could be years until the Supreme Court strikes them down. There are, quite honestly, no agreed-upon standards in American Government. It is the wild west.

Of course, in an introductory class they don't cover all of this. But they also do not cover most of chemistry in a Chemistry 101 class. If they did cover everything in 101 classes, then there would be no reason to suck college students dry of their finances for 4 straight years.
#50
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Good grades does determine intelligence. It is one way to measure intelligence.There are always a few exceptions to the rule. But standards are not built on exceptions.

Einstein did not get high grades but he was able to continue his education till he found what he was most interested in. He then demonstrated his higher intelligence in his field of work.


Einstein's Education
According to popular lore, Albert Einstein was a poor student. It is true that he did not earn top grades in every subject, but he excelled at math and science, even though he skipped classes and had to cram for exams. "It is, in fact, nothing short of a miracle," he wrote, "that the modern methods of instruction have not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." Einstein taught himself geometry at the age of 12, wrote his first "science paper" at age 16 and received his Ph.D. at the age of 26 in 1905—the same year he published four groundbreaking articles in physics.
Even as a teenager, Einstein had already developed a profound mistrust of authority. He questioned not only his teachers but also long-standing mathematical and scientific "givens," such as ancient Greek rules of geometry and laws of physics established by other scientists. Ironically, Einstein's queries and resulting breakthroughs eventually turned him into an authority himself.

107 days later

#51
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@Shila
Depends on your definition of determine
Determine
verb

1.
cause (something) to occur in a particular way; be the decisive factor in.
2.
ascertain or establish exactly, typically as a result of research or calculation.
For number 1, absolutely not. Number 2 is under debate as to its validity in some circles, but generally speaking, you are much more likely to be intelligent if you have good grades than if you don't.

7 days later

#52
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Yes, grades determine intelligence, and thermometers determine temperature.  

My damn thermometer made it way too cold last week.
#53
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Grade A eggs  --unless one is cracked or left out in warmer temperatures too long, then they become grade E---

Grade A students  --unless one is cracked and decides they want lower their intelligence abilities for various reasons. ex intimate relationships, behavioral issues, or any number of reasons to place grading system to the side, then they become grade E---

Grade A at paying attention class 

I was grade D and E for most part, with C and B in gym class. Intelligent enough in public school to learn how to read. That is key for all humans, yet, some manage without reading ability, but most dont fair as well.








#54
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@ebuc
most dont fair as well.
*fare
#55
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*fare

Perhaps etymology root. I dunno

Fare the well for I must leave thee, do not let this parting grieve thee.

Euro-indian is large language group that *fare may be a predecessor of.  My best guess.

C grade in gym glass may have been my peak grad ever. I dont recall

AI obviously is going to surpass in many ways.  AI scours the net and finds our comments to add to its collective Borg. Yes?

Ive been thinking of ..save our integrity... phrase. No one knows how it will play out. In 70's, a common theme was Mad Max future.

50's ...60's....70's.....80's....90's.....2000.....20010.......2020   (> *<)  i  (> * <)...... a texticonic bug in our rug

Its a rug race out there :--)).....((--: the electronic data-noid........vs the bilateral brain{s} ..we are family, Ive got all my.....Sorry, beginning here,  i dont know rest of words to the song.

Where is my integrity, as I walk in the moonlight?  Where did my integrity go to?  Was I right, was I wrong { David Byrn }.

K. Michael....... Bye
 

25 days later

#56
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@ebuc
Understood
#57
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@RationalMadman
Understood
Fuller states that comprehension can only begin with no less than than 6 lines-of-relation ergo the 6 lines of the 3D { XYZ  volumetric whole } tetrahedron i.e. the minimal 3D structure of Universe.

Ergo understanding would be more like 5, 4 or 3 lines-of-relationship that define a 2D area of triangle, or 4 as a square or 5 of a pentagon, yet none of those are the 6 needed for comprehension as equated with volumetric whole as tetra{4}hedron.

Animals understand to whatever degree

Humans understand --5 or less lines-of-relationship--   to whatever degree,  yet in addition  have access to more Meta-space mind/intellect/conceptual comprehension of a greater wholistic set of events/phenomena etc. A sort of childs play game of connecting all of the dots.

Apprehension of data > understanding of data > comprehension of more wholistic--- if not synergetic--  set of the data

.......space(> * <)(> * <)space.... a bilateral, biologic bug in the rug fabric of space and time via, a dual invaginations of a quantum,  space-time torus

(   ) = Gravity

/\/\/ = quantised time

)( = Dark Energy  --from which Eric Verlinde believes Gravity is emergent entropic Dark Energy---   Well yes, my specific{ special-case }  quantum space-time torus has Gravity emerging from Dark Energy and vice versa.  They are two sides of the same coin so to speak, and for the first time, in last few days, one of these theorectical physicists ---maybe Erice Verlinde--- was saying similar thing if not exact same thing Ive been espousing for may 4 years now.

Graviton-darkEon are one in the same particle, that has two diametrically opposite aspects to its whole self.  ---14 nodal points and that is 91 lines-of-relationshio---

Gravity and Dark Energy are geodesic reciprocals. They was each others back so to say, and along the way, via diameetrically opposite invaginations, observed time a physical reality occurs.

John Wheeler .." "matter tells spacetime how to curve, and curved spacetime tells matter how to move". So we have the resultant and observed/quantise sine-wave of reality inside the toroidal tube, and that is supposed to cause the geodesic curvature of Gravity and Dark Energy.

However, my scenario has the sine-wave associated reality moving --emerging from--  from Dark Energy negative gedesic toward positive geodesic side of all pf space-time tori of Universe, and for the most ultra-briefest of moments, the entropic heat death, longest wave possible photon--  the sine-wave of realiity is fading away into the Graviational field, traveling around the torus surface,  only to re-emerge from the Dark Energy field.  This is the big bang or as Fuller calls it the next WOW!

What is Einsteins quote about imagination.   I dare to be naive and follow what my logical, common sense, critical thinking pathways lead me too.  Over the years the led me to differrent conclusions, that, eventually led to the above conclusion of what exactly is going on with our eternally existent, finite, occupied space Universe.

....( * i  * )... or as Kung Fu { james Carridine } used to say in his tv programs, ..' just a man ' and I add in, just a man with an ego i-dentity like all men and women

Einstein...' my education has been one of the biggest impediments to my learniing '

I learned how to read, and many times Ive realized how important that learning is, because my one best friend of mine from childhood, never really learned how to put the words all together.  I was shocked at 17 , to find out he knows some words, but doesnt really read much.
#58
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@ebuc
Grade A students  --unless one is cracked and decides they want lower their intelligence abilities for various reasons. ex intimate relationships, behavioral issues, or any number of reasons to place grading system to the side, then they become grade E---
Why?

Are you perhaps discrediting the greatest scientists in the 19th, 20th and 21st century? Some of them kept brawling with their brains and brawn, being even borderline dysfunctional socially just to greatly push the bound of human science. They are losers according what you said, at least it seems. If I am wrong, feel free for correcting me. (That is one of the problems I face IRL: People aren't free enough to correct me, leading me towards inaccurate beliefs)

That is what I would rather be, not what you said. If you want to be angry for any reason that I do or do not know, it is just I was scolded by my parents for holding the same opinion, and is here to express it.

#59
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@Intelligence_06
Why?

Why would grade A intentionally get grade E. Again, for various reasons.  Side-tracked by intimate relationships is one. Rebel without a cause is another.  Humans are complex and have complex social relationships so the list of reasons why could be  many, or none. I dunno. Just hypothesizing

Are you perhaps discrediting the greatest scientists in the 19th, 20th and 21st century?
Not my intention to do so.  I'm not that kind of person.



#60
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@ebuc
Side-tracked by intimate relationships is one.
So you think having intimate relationships intentionally makes you grade E? Why?