The meaning of death

Ragnar's - comment was simply to say that I  wasn't....

Lest we forget the blatant ungodly FACT of Tradesecret in recent time in having 5 DIFFERENT GENDERS within their Profile Page as embarrassingly shown in the link herewith: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6594-diversity-of-religious-experience-a-problem-for-monotheists-from-a-polytheist-prospective?page=3&post_number=53

I am more than willing to I certainly believe spirit is eternal. I don't think my definition of what God would be the same as yours. When I say God I don't mean like the God of Abraham I mean Infinite Intelligence, the creator of all things. The gods to me are merely evolved being that have a knowledge of dimensions that we  humans don't have. They are more in tune with how spirit works. Death is just when the body ceases to function. Spirit is continual and eternal when the Bible says I knew you before you were formed that means that our spirit existed before it goes into our body and obviously if God talks about an afterlife it exists after we leave our body. I certainly believe there are lower vibration beings and higher vibration beings and where you're at when you die can determine where you end up in an afterlife I certainly don't believe in hell and punishment. I also believe in reincarnation. Until you've reached a certain level of vibration you have to come back and learn. One can't learn if you're in hell being punished so I don't believe that exists. It's also not in the Old Testament and very few other religions have a hell that's just a place of punishment most faiths might have a purgatory or at least a afterlife split into sections. You don't just go to a place of torture because you didn't believe in gods you end up in a place like that based on your own behavior toward others. You can learn and grow out of that place.

I am more than willing to I certainly believe spirit is eternal.

I don't think my definition of what God would be the same as yours.

When I say God I don't mean like the God of Abraham I mean Infinite Intelligence, the creator of all things.

The gods to me are merely evolved being that have a knowledge of dimensions that we  humans don't have.

They are more in tune with how spirit works.

Death is just when the body ceases to function.

Spirit is continual and eternal when the Bible says I knew you before you were formed that means that our spirit existed before it goes into our body and obviously if God talks about an afterlife it exists after we leave our body.

I certainly believe there are lower vibration beings and higher vibration beings and where you're at when you die can determine where you end up in an afterlife I certainly don't believe in hell and punishment.

I also believe in reincarnation.

Until you've reached a certain level of vibration you have to come back and learn.

One can't learn if you're in hell being punished so I don't believe that exists.

It's also not in the Old Testament and very few other religions have a hell that's just a place of punishment most faiths might have a purgatory or at least a afterlife split into sections.

You don't just go to a place of torture because you didn't believe in gods you end up in a place like that based on your own behavior toward others. You can learn and grow out of that place.

I am more than willing to I certainly believe spirit is eternal.

What do you mean by spirit? 

When I say God I don't mean like the God of Abraham I mean Infinite Intelligence, the creator of all things.

Is Infinite Intelligence a thing or a person or something else? Would you care to elaborate? 

The gods to me are merely evolved being that have a knowledge of dimensions that we  humans don't have.

Why do you think this? Do you have any evidence of it?  How can you know that they have evolved a deeper knowledge of dimensions than us? I am curious. 

They are more in tune with how spirit works.

Ok. How do you know this?

Spirit is continual and eternal when the Bible says I knew you before you were formed that means that our spirit existed before it goes into our body and obviously if God talks about an afterlife it exists after we leave our body.

Ok. So I assume you take this part of the bible to be correct.  Is it the only part or are other parts correct as well? And how do you determine which ones are correct and which ones are not? For the record, I am not convinced the bible says the Spirit is eternal.  You are correct in that it talks about God knowing us before we were formed. But it also talks about death and the second death. John 3:16 clearly talks about life eternal and death as two opposites. Death seems to be non-eternal. 

I certainly believe there are lower vibration beings and higher vibration beings and where you're at when you die can determine where you end up in an afterlife I certainly don't believe in hell and punishment.

I don't understand this vibration thing. Can you explain that further? I do believe in Hell and punishment. For me it makes sense that judgement occurs in the afterlife if it is not attained in the real world. 

Until you've reached a certain level of vibration you have to come back and learn.

Is that like Karma? How do you distinguish it from Karma, realizing of course that Hindu philosophy teaches that everything is illusion. 

One can't learn if you're in hell being punished so I don't believe that exists.

I would think that Hell is not about learning but about punishment.  Surely that is the sole purpose of such a destination and for some people who refuse to learn - that seems quite an appropriate place. 

It's also not in the Old Testament and very few other religions have a hell that's just a place of punishment most faiths might have a purgatory or at least a afterlife split into sections.

Eternal Hell is premised partly upon the Greek idea that the Spirit is eternal.  Although it is true that many religions don't have Hell, it is perhaps because they have a different system of punishment.   I also think that the OT does talk about Hell.  But you can have your own beliefs. 

You don't just go to a place of torture because you didn't believe in gods you end up in a place like that based on your own behavior toward others. You can learn and grow out of that place.

Hell is not a place to learn. Hell is a place of punishment for rejecting God.  If torture is part of that - then that is part of the punishment, It is not about belief or non-belief in God - it is about Treason on an eternal scale. 

Most myths do not have the gods creating the universe but their area of the universe. They are able to contact us on Earth care of the dead. They are also able to die. 

Until you've reached a certain level of vibration you have to come back and learn.

Is that like Karma? How do you distinguish it from Karma, realizing of course that Hindu philosophy teaches that everything is illusion. 

Karma is more about reward and punishment. I am taking about learning universal truths. 

I don't believe we were created to be punished. I think having kids to just torcher them is  sick.  What higher being would do that if we don't? You wouldn't bring a child into the world and lock it up forever because you didn't teach it right. Or because they made a mistake. Not to mention we are here to learn lessons. Some errors on our part are a part of experiencing the consequences of hurting ourselves or others. 

It's also not in the Old Testament and very few other religions have a hell that's just a place of punishment most faiths might have a purgatory or at least a afterlife split into sections.

Eternal Hell is premised partly upon the Greek idea that the Spirit is eternal.  Although it is true that many religions don't have Hell, it is perhaps because they have a different system of punishment.   I also think that the OT does talk about Hell.  But you can have your own beliefs. 

If Christianity is based on the God of Abraham then why is the concepts of the Greek afterlife incorporated at all?

I don't believe the creator punishes anyone for eternity.  There is no natural law of punishment. It's goes against the law of love. Which is the ultimate lesson. Love God and your neighbor.  One can expect cause and effect but nothing in cause and effect implies punishment  but merely consequence. A lion not making a kill is not punished by being hungry is it a consequence of not eating. We do have a period where once we die and realize our sins against others ( and in that way God) then our guilt keeps us from moving on. Once that guilt is processed we can being to grow and move closer to God. 

When you mean all things - do you mean living things - like animals and birds and fish? Would you also include trees and shrubs etc.? And what about rocks and earth and fire? Would you also possibly include angels and demons etc? 

So for you God is the creator of life or is he / she the life?  Do you distinguish between God and everything else? Or is god part and parcel of everything? 

Ok. But that is the distinguishing feature of the God of the Bible. The creator of all things. Not just a tribal god or deity.  The God of the bible cannot die either because he is the creator of life. 

Ok. So why is the verses about life and death in the NT more believable than other parts? You must surely have a means of deciding which is one is more stuffed up than the others?  I happen to think the NT is excellent.  And that the Bible, namely the OT and the NT are more reliable than every other book.   The bible talks about spirit being mortal and that immortality is conditional. 

Interesting.  I would agree with you about Karma. I am not sure what you mean by universal truths.  Where are these and who made them and how do we find out about them? 

Thanks for your responses. This is really interesting.  I am of the view that Satan will be punished for ever. What is natural law? Surely you have heard of a thing called tough love.  Love sometimes is demonstrated by removing the enemy.  The ultimate lesson is love? Where do you get that idea?  I think worship is the ultimate thing to do.  I really find it interesting how much you are opposed to the concept of punishment.  Of course there are natural consequences to things.  Not all consequences are punishments.   But judgment is what judges do.  And then the police come and place a person in punishment. I agree there is a difference between punishment and discipline. The first is an end. The second is a means.  But sometimes - the journey has to come to an end. The destination is always beckoning.   For example, Hitler was not needing discipline or to learn. Because of his evil, the only thing left was punishment.  That he took his life, meant he escaped temporal punishment - yet he sent himself into the eternal judgment room of God. And my view is that God's judgment on Hitler was deserved.  

When you mean all things - do you mean living things - like animals and birds and fish? Would you also include trees and shrubs etc.? And what about rocks and earth and fire? Would you also possibly include angels and demons etc? 

All  things. People, beings, rocks, elements, every atom in the universe. 

So for you God is the creator of life or is he / she the life?  Do you distinguish between God and everything else? Or is god part and parcel of everything? 

Yes but I use gods to mean beings like Odin or the God of Abraham. Infinite Intelligence is what I would call the creator of all things. No not really we are all part of that force. 

Ok. But that is the distinguishing feature of the God of the Bible. The creator of all things. Not just a tribal god or deity.  The God of the bible cannot die either because he is the creator of life. 

He says he is but for me he is the tribal god of the Jews who is a creation god for that pantheon. Just like Odin is a creation god in Heathenism and Prometheus  in Hellenistic Polytheism. Not all gods die. Most use magic to avoid it. 

Ok. So why is the verses about life and death in the NT more believable than other parts? You must surely have a means of deciding which is one is more stuffed up than the others?  I happen to think the NT is excellent.  And that the Bible, namely the OT and the NT are more reliable than every other book.   The bible talks about spirit being mortal and that immortality is conditional. 

I think the New Testament is almost all rubbish. Jesus was a Buddha type figure if he lived at all and is not a mix of people from the time.

Interesting.  I would agree with you about Karma. I am not sure what you mean by universal truths.  Where are these and who made them and how do we find out about them? 

Infinite Intelligence created everything. Some are natural laws and  some we know when in in spirit form.  We loose a lot while in human form with an ego. 

Thanks for your responses. This is really interesting.  I am of the view that Satan will be punished for ever. What is natural law? Surely you have heard of a thing called tough love.  Love sometimes is demonstrated by removing the enemy.  The ultimate lesson is love? Where do you get that idea?  I think worship is the ultimate thing to do.  I really find it interesting how much you are opposed to the concept of punishment.  Of course there are natural consequences to things.  Not all consequences are punishments.   But judgment is what judges do.  And then the police come and place a person in punishment. I agree there is a difference between punishment and discipline. The first is an end. The second is a means.  But sometimes - the journey has to come to an end. The destination is always beckoning.   For example, Hitler was not needing discipline or to learn. Because of his evil, the only thing left was punishment.  That he took his life, meant he escaped temporal punishment - yet he sent himself into the eternal judgment room of God. And my view is that God's judgment on Hitler was deserved.  

https://passionplacement.com/7-natural-laws-fundamentals-to-unlock-growth-in-business-life/ I have seen sources with way more but these are the most commonly discussed.  The only enemy is ego. There is no universal boogey man waiting to tear you down.  Working with a god may be a matter of worship but the ultimate goal for us is to give love to others. Punishment achieves little on a eternity time frame. Again why create a human, set it up to fail then punish it for all eternity cause it doesn't get the rules. It makes God look petty, shallow and sadistic. Judges also protect victims, grant restitution and decide who is correct within the laws. You see judgement as something only the evil or bad get. The good are judged too. What if Hitler was sent to teach a lesson to all humanity? Did he has to endure some punishment in the afterlife, sure. Will he every progress in the afterlife, no idea. Either one of use could be right or wrong. Without proof we can only live our own truth and not judge others for theirs. Unless theirs hurts others. If you are hurting others using religion it's hard to give that religion any credit for authenticity.

I think saying Hitler was sent to teach a lesson implies that something sent him.  Who would send Hitler to kill so many people as a way of teaching? That sounds vindictive and arbitrary.  Not to mention cruel and mean. If that is you infinite intelligence, then I could not in good faith worship such a thing

You are correct. both of us can't be right. both of us could be wrong.  Yet if i am wrong, then the worst that can happen - is I end up in heaven. On the other hand, you, if you are wrong, then you have a nasty future ahead of you.  Either way, I cannot lose.  You on the other hand - better be right for your sake. 

Some seem confused about the meaning of death preferring it to mean other than the ordinary meanings associated with the term.

Physical death- when the body no longer has breath and decays.

Spiritual death - when the spiritual relationship between God and man is severed.

Covenantal death - when the breach of the covenant brings the sanction of covenantal death within the limitations of the specific institution.

Some try and introduce another kind of death associated with ritual with higher orders with a secret society.

Please explain the different types of death you understand and the basis of this understanding.