REPUBLICANS in CONGRESS NOW FACE a TEST of their GOOD FAITH

Author: oromagi

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Nobody can deny that the Democrats have come more than halfway on the two major bills before Congress right now.  Today is the first and largest test of Republicans willingness to actually do the job they were elected for.

Yesterday, Barack Obama threw his support behind Joe Manchin's scaled back voting rights compromise that must pass Republican filibuster today.  Following Stacey Abrams endorsement last week, Obama is giving in on two long held principled objections to National VoterID and voter roll purging.

From this point forward, the only reason that VoterID, which enjoys 80% support nationally (84% minority voter support)is not law is Republican pigheadedness and pantswetting over Trump's stranglehold on the party apparatus.  If Republicans block this bill today, Republicans will have unarguably justified the structural changes Democrats are considering to regain America's capacity to make law- first and foremost shifting the filibuster.

Here are the main points of Manchin's compromise bill:

1. Make election day a public holiday
2. Mandate at least 15 consecutive days of early voting for federal elections (include 2 weekends)
3. Ban partisan gerrymandering and use computer models.
4. Require voter ID with allowable alternatives (utility bill, etc.) to prove identity to vote
5. Automatic registration through DMV, with option to opt out.
6. Require states to promote access to voter registration and voting for persons with disabilities and older individuals.
7. Prohibit providing false information about elections to hinder or discourage voting and increases penalties for voter intimidation.
8. Require states to send absentee by mail ballots to eligible voters before an election if voter is not able to vote in person during early voting or election day due to eligible circumstance and allow civil penalty for failure.
9. Require the Election Assistance Commission to develop model training programs and award grants for training.
10.Require states to notify an individual, not later than 7 seven days before election, if his/her polling place has changed.
  • Absentee ballots shall be carried expeditiously and free of postage.
  • Require the Attorney General to develop a state-based response system and hotline that provides information on voting.
11. Allow for maintenance of voter rolls by utilizing information derived from state and federal documents.
12. Establish standards for election vendors based on cybersecurity concerns.
13. Allow provisional ballots to count for all eligible races regardless of precinct.
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@oromagi
I don't really see any major flaws here - I actually think the plan's a good one - are there any bits here that you don't like or something you would want to add? 
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@oromagi
1. Make election day a public holiday
I do not see the need for this, it wouldn't help many of the people who struggle the most to vote. People who get off for federal holidays are public employees, like workers at schools, banks, and government jobs where they do not usually work late hours and have paid time off, and those people usually have transportation to voting sites. What happens when schools are off, is parents can't find childcare for their kids sometimes making it even harder to vote. 


2. Mandate at least 15 consecutive days of early voting for federal elections (include 2 weekends)
Yes, voting should not be only on one day!

3. Ban partisan gerrymandering and use computer models.
I do  not see how people can argue with this. 

4. Require voter ID with allowable alternatives (utility bill, etc.) to prove identity to vote

Minimal ID should be fine, but if I have a utility bill how can I prove my name is the same name on the bill? A lot of people who have no ID have no utilities. It's homeless people,  or maybe some teens without a license, but this looks like a funny compromise that doesn't serve much purpose. 

5. Automatic registration through DMV, with option to opt out.
I do not see a problem with this if it is through the DMV, because you're already  proving your identification there, and the opt out option is good. What about states where they want to give drivers licenses to non citizens?

6. Require states to promote access to voter registration and voting for persons with disabilities and older individuals.
This sounds good, and maybe access to voting like transportation services, handicap services at the voting machines or help producing identification if they need it. 

7. Prohibit providing false information about elections to hinder or discourage voting and increases penalties for voter intimidation.
How would this be enforced?


8. Require states to send absentee by mail ballots to eligible voters before an election if voter is not able to vote in person during early voting or election day due to eligible circumstance and allow civil penalty for failure.
Yes, voting should be easily accessible to all eligible persons 


9. Require the Election Assistance Commission to develop model training programs and award grants for training.
What is this?

10.Require states to notify an individual, not later than 7 seven days before election, if his/her polling place has changed.
  • Absentee ballots shall be carried expeditiously and free of postage.
  • Require the Attorney General to develop a state-based response system and hotline that provides information on voting.
Yes, we should not be discouraging voices being heard.

11. Allow for maintenance of voter rolls by utilizing information derived from state and federal documents.
As long as they are accurate, ok 

12. Establish standards for election vendors based on cybersecurity concerns.
Very important! We need to have faith in our elections!

13. Allow provisional ballots to count for all eligible races regardless of precinct.
Will have to look more into this- depends on voting security and accessibility 
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@oromagi
I don't really see any major flaws here - I actually think the plan's a good one - are there any bits here that you don't like or something you would want to add? 
It's more the stuff we had to give up on

  • same day voter registration and registration correction
  • online voter registration and registration correction
  • the voter purging is a big one- essentially states with GOP Secretaries of State have been purging between Presidential elections- so if you voted in 2020 but don't vote in 2022, a Republican will look at your registration and make a judgement based on perceived race- if your name sound white enough you can stay but if your name sounds non-white, Republicans will probably toss you out and you will have to re-register before voting in 2024.  Voting purging overseen by George Bush's older brother in Florida in 2000 was the principle cause of  Bush's win and with that win 9/11,  the War in Afghanistan, the Gulf War, Katrina, etc.
    • The purge system in Florida proceeded on the premise of guilty until proven innocent. In 1998, the Florida legislature enacted a statute that required the Division of Elections to contract with a private entity to purge its voter file of deceased persons, duplicate registrants, individuals declared mentally incompetent, and convicted felons without civil rights restoration, i.e., remove ineligible voter registrants from voter registration rolls. This purge process became known as list maintenance. Once on the list, the process places the burden on the eligible voter to justify remaining on the voter rolls. The ubiquitous errors and dearth of effective controls in the state’s list maintenance system resulted in the exclusion of voters lawfully entitled and properly registered to vote.
    • African American voters were placed on purge lists more often and more erroneously than Hispanic or white voters. For instance, in the state’s largest county, Miami-Dade, more than 65 percent of the names on the purge list were African Americans, who represented only 20.4 percent of the population. Hispanics were 57.4 percent of the population, but only 16.6 percent of the purge list; whites were 77.6 percent of the population but 17.6 percent of those purged.

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If I was in Senate, I would only sign this if point number 3 is removed. 
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Just noticed number 5
 Number 5 is stupid also. We don't need more apathetic voters. Only ugh people who give. Fuck about policy should vote
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Just noticed number 5
 Number 5 is stupid also. We don't need more apathetic voters. Only ugh people who give. Fuck about policy should vote

They would be registered to vote, but would have to actively vote if they wanted to. Why do you like gerrymandering? 
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@oromagi
1. Make election day a public holiday
I do not see the need for this, it wouldn't help many of the people who struggle the most to vote. People who get off for federal holidays are public employees, like workers at schools, banks, and government jobs where they do not usually work late hours and have paid time off, and those people usually have transportation to voting sites. What happens when schools are off, is parents can't find childcare for their kids sometimes making it even harder to vote. 
I think childcare is a good point while also noting that many large polling places already offer childcare. Further, a huge amount of voting happens at public schools where small spaces are partitioned off for election days.  If the schools were closed, there might be more space for accommodating voters.  The objective here is to get rid of the 8 hour lines for voting and particularly the traffic jam that develops in the couple of hours between the end of work and the closing of polls.  Hopefully, the bank and public employees would be more likely to go earlier in the day, improving poll availability for those minwage workers who get no holidays or time off from work.

3. Ban partisan gerrymandering and use computer models.
I do  not see how people can argue with this. 
and yet partisan gerrymandering is the strongest tentpole left in the Republican party's circus.  GOP control in Congress is entirely built on unrepresentative partitioning.  There has never been a time in the last century when registered Republicans outnumbered registered Democrats, so the GOP is fundamentally structured on unrepresentative voting.

A GOP congressman has implied that his party’s path to commanding a majority in the House of Representatives is through manipulating congressional districts, known as gerrymandering

Rep Ronny Jackson was speaking at a conservative conference hosted by Faith & Freedom Coalition on 18 June about the Republican party’s future and the upcoming 2022 midterm elections. It was caught on video as he seemed to hint that gerrymandering was a method his party was relying on to “get back the House”.

Democrats took control of the House in the 2018 midterms, and as Mr Jackson acknowledged they retained it in 2020, despite Republicans gaining a few seats, which therefore weakened the Democrats’ majority.

Gerrymandering is a method of drawing up voting districts in an effort to create a political advantageous geographic area.

The representative for Texas’ 13th Congressional District said, "We have redistricting coming up and the Republicans control most of that process in most of the states around the country," he told the audience. "That alone should get us the majority back.
The majority of congressmen, that is.  Never, ever a majority of Americans

4. Require voter ID with allowable alternatives (utility bill, etc.) to prove identity to vote
Minimal ID should be fine, but if I have a utility bill how can I prove my name is the same name on the bill? A lot of people who have no ID have no utilities. It's homeless people,  or maybe some teens without a license, but this looks like a funny compromise that doesn't serve much purpose. 
the GOP theory is that people without ID all vote democrat anyway so requiring ID filters out democratic voters. To that end,  in some states, a handgun license or concealed carry permit is a valid ID but a state university photo ID is not permitted.  Dems generally have opposed any voterID but at least this law would allow some non-partisan standardization.
5. Automatic registration through DMV, with option to opt out.
I do not see a problem with this if it is through the DMV, because you're already  proving your identification there, and the opt out option is good. What about states where they want to give drivers licenses to non citizens?
Such licenses are already required by Fed law to be clearly marked as "Not valid for Federal identification, voting, or public benefit purposes"

7. Prohibit providing false information about elections to hinder or discourage voting and increases penalties for voter intimidation.
How would this be enforced?
Mostly under existing voter intimidation laws.  Most of the small scale stuff is already illegal but this would address deliberately false info on a national scale, Donald Trump's false claims about mail-in voting before 2020, for example.


9. Require the Election Assistance Commission to develop model training programs and award grants for training.
What is this?
Require the Federal Commission tasked with promoting election guidelines, training, certifications to actually develop a plan to do so and disperse federal funds to states for such tasks.  The Republican majority commission has been negligent in its responsibilities since 2015 and has been under court injunction since 2017, leaving states to to take up the slack.ation derived from state and federal documents.
As long as they are accurate, ok 

12. Establish standards for election vendors based on cybersecurity concerns.
Very important! We need to have faith in our elections!
That's the EAC above's job which they have actively refused since Republicans took over.  It is convenient that Republican both complain about election vendors while actively blocking standards, testing, and certification.  If Republicans were forced to do their job, then they couldn't make complaints about Dominion voting machines without answering why they certified the machines  to begin with.
13. Allow provisional ballots to count for all eligible races regardless of precinct.
Will have to look more into this- depends on voting security and accessibility 
That is, if you got your polling place wrong and voted anyway rather than going to the right place to vote, your vote still counts on election day (instead of only counting if the race is close and contested).  Personally, I'd rather get voting wait times down to short or nothing and then when people show up at the wrong poll, tell them to vote at the right place (and provide transportation assistance if needed).
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Because republicans are better at it than democrats
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Oro actually answered my question on why I like gerrymandering 
 .   If not for gerrymandering, we may have already become the next Venezuela.  
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You know we developed a system that gets rid of voter ID and is completely secure but liberals reject it, because it would make fraud impossible.  It is based on blockchain technology 
oromagi
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@Wylted
If I was in Senate, I would only sign this if point number 3 is removed. 
Just noticed number 5
 Number 5 is stupid also. We don't need more apathetic voters. Only ugh people who give. Fuck about policy should vote

But as we have already established, you think American values are "shitty" and oppose democratic institutions like the Senate in favor of dictatorship for all, right?

Why don't you leave the discussion of free and fair elections to the people who actually believe in elections and when we want some advice on craven capitulation to authority or how to kowtow to Grand Wizards, we'll be sure to ask for your feedback.
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@oromagi
I think Augustus caesar did a better job than any democratic institutions could with the hand he was dealt. 

Also like it or not, democracy invites undemocratic people to be a part of the process in determining how government should be ran. 
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Democracy,the institution that brought you slavery, 9/11 and men getting their dicks cut off and being called heroes for it.
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@Wylted
I think Augustus caesar did a better job than any democratic institutions could with the hand he was dealt. 
Tell that to Cicero.  Tell that to Cato.  Tell that to Jesus (not to suggest that you two ever might meet).

Also like it or not, democracy invites undemocratic people to be a part of the process in determining how government should be ran. 
Well, we don't muzzle them or anything but we can express our contempt for their weakness.   

Look, nobody would ask Augustus his philosophy of parliamentary procedure anymore than anybody would ask Trump because the answer with dictators is always locked in and always the same: "whatever makes me king"
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Democracy,the institution that brought you slavery, 9/11 and men getting their dicks cut off and being called heroes for it.

Yah, cuz Kings never gave us slavery, terrorism or eunuchs. 
(TBH, I don't know what you're referring to with that last point but I'm confident that it is irrelevant.)
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@Wylted

You know we developed a system that gets rid of voter ID and is completely secure but liberals reject it, because it would make fraud impossible.  It is based on blockchain technology 
Why do you think the left needs fraud to win an election when they are in the majority? Can you name an election where fraud has impacted an outcome, outside the 2020 presidential election for which there has not been any verifiable evidence. You did not answer my question when I asked if you thought the slew of frauds who were proven to all be liars when they claimed to witness vote tampering impacted your view of the claims. Does it matter to you that all of the lawsuits have been thrown out by judges of every political affiliation, that secretaries of state and voter board members of every political orientation found no fraud after  several audits, that voting machines are carrying on lawsuits to prove the claims about their machines are unfounded, etc, or will you just believe that there is voter fraud despite all the ways it has been disproven or rather never been proven? iLikePie5 said neither Democrats nor Republicans can be trusted, which is just another way of saying he has shifted the goal posts in such a way that nobody can ever disprove his belief. It is very silly.  

I am also curious why "the elites" allowed Donald Trump to win in 2016 but suddenly decided to chime in and cancel the votes of 2020? There has been no widespread indication of fraud, no people claiming that others voted on their behalf, and all research into it found people do not vote on behalf of dead people or whatever else. It seems like a very silly thing to obsess over, a meaningless distraction trying to undermine the elections.
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Because republicans are better at it than democrats
So in other words, democracy really isn’t for you.
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Can you name an election where fraud has impacted an outcome, outside the 2020 presidential election
There was that congressional race in 2018 that had to be redone because of fraudulent votes… by the republicans. It’s the only case in recent memory, but why let facts get in the way?

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There was that congressional race in 2018 that had to be redone because of fraudulent votes… by the republicans. It’s the only case in recent memory, but why let facts get in the way?
I thought ballot harvesting was a right wing conspiracy? Fraud can't possibly happen said CNN.

I trust authority why don't you Komrade?
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I thought ballot harvesting was a right wing conspiracy? Fraud can't possibly happen said CNN.

I trust authority why don't you Komrade?
I’m praying to god SCOTUS rules that ballot harvesting isn’t protected under the Voting Rights Act of 1965 not the 15th Amendment here in the next week or so.
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Did you know that Maryland and Illinois rank 1 and 3 respectively in the most gerrymandered districts?
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I thought ballot harvesting was a right wing conspiracy?
It’s a conspiracy theory when you allege that it did happen without evidence, as Republicans are doing all across the country. You know what the 2018 race had? Evidence.

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Did you know that Maryland and Illinois rank 1 and 3 respectively in the most gerrymandered districts?
According to who? NC is every bit as bad as Maryland and probably worse, but more importantly, Republicans have the rest. Republicans will draw 187 congressional districts to Democrats 75 in large part due to large blue states who actually believe in drawing fair congressional districts.

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According to who?
The Washington Post

NC is every bit as bad as Maryland and probably worse, but more importantly, Republicans have the rest. Republicans will draw 187 congressional districts to Democrats 75 in large part due to large blue states who actually believe in drawing fair congressional districts.
Maryland and Illinois definitely don’t. Anyways, after this census Texas and Louisiana which hold the other 5 spots will have more compact districts compared to Maryland and Illinois. Highly recommend checking out Dave Wasserman’s hypothetical congressional districts by state on Twitter
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It’s a conspiracy theory when you are a rrrracist Republican

Fixed that
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DoubleR wants to make the entire nation of America like the disaster New York is through the totalitarian authority of the Federal government of elites in DC.

If there was ever a case for states rights, this would be it.
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I’m praying to god SCOTUS rules that ballot harvesting isn’t protected under the Voting Rights Act of 1965 not the 15th Amendment here in the next week or so.

That should stop those Racist Republicans from stealing elections.

Surely.
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It’s a conspiracy theory when you allege that it did happen without evidence, as Republicans are doing all across the country. You know what the 2018 race had? Evidence
incorrect. Voter fraud is impossible. If people who run the system insist that the system is fraud proof, because it would likely also expose them as beneficiaries to an unfair system, it must be true. 
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It’s a conspiracy theory when you are a rrrracist Republican

Fixed that
No, all you did was strawman my position in a clear example of how little interest you have in an actual intelligent discussion.

And if anyone needed more proof of that…

DoubleR wants to make the entire nation of America like the disaster New York is through the totalitarian authority of the Federal government of elites in DC.
Setting the stupidity of this post aside, how about letting me explain what I want? Oh never mind, why argue with me when a fictional DoubleR is so much easier to knock down?