More including Democrats are raising the alarm about election fraud

Author: Wylted
Trump
Biden
Election
fraud

Posts

Total: 133
#31
Unpopular
Unpopular's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 98
0
1
3
Unpopular's avatar
Unpopular
0
1
3
-->
@Greyparrot
That's a pretty stupid question since no policy can originate from Trump alone, and I said nothing about "taking freedoms away from Americans" so I  don't know why you are asking me anything about that. I said Trump loves authority, order and hierarchies (evidenced by his love of military,  law and order, and deference to his presidential rank as well as economic class), and he resents everyone who feels that he is not the supreme authority, especially when he was president. That has nothing to do with policy and everything to do with him being an egomaniac. His "anti authority" supporters cloaked in Trump paraphernalia from head to toe while chanting his name in a hysteric frenzy feed right into that. 
#32
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,905
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Unpopular
Ultimate Authority is most decidedly the Elites in Washington DC along with the army of elite lobbyists.

I can present a list over 100 policies from them that have fucked the American people out of their freedoms.
#33
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Wylted
@oromagi
Genetic fallacy. You are claiming because the facts are stated by a site ran by conservatives, the facts don't exist. 
Rationalwiki notes that genetic fallacies are not Bayesian: "some sources are so consistently full of it that pointing this out reasonably constitutes a refutation for all practical purposes (e.g., Scopie's law).  If something is bullshit 99.9% of the time, it may not be worth investigating — especially when there are more trustworthy sources or pressing issues available."

"Example: If Andrew Wakefield were to write a paper on anything, it can be easily dismissed."

Ask yourself, are there more reliable sources of information regarding the US 2020 Election outcome than Canadian religious zealots who deny the existence of COVID in the face of an ongoing world pandemic and have been banned from social websites for the extremity of prior disinformation campaigns.  If the answer is yes and if those more reliable sources all say your source is bullshit, then the onus is on you the claimant to use more reliable data.

I am saying that because your sole source of evidence is a well-established liar and no credible sources confirm your liar's lies, your claim is unfounded.  Further, I showed that your source is not US, although all the claims in the article are about the US state of mind.  Why go beyond our borders when American news sources are more likely to accurate convey the American state of mind?

Further, I cited reliable polling data to show that fewer and fewer Americans believe Trump's Big Lie, disproving your claim.

This would be like me claiming the holocaust is fake, because some rabbi said it was real. 
RationalWiki goes on to point out:

"Someone believing in multiple conspiracy theories or a unified conspiracy theory is also likely to have a completely distorted view of reality," citing Holocaust deniers as an example of someone so out of touch with the facts that they can be dismissed out of hand.  I have no problem sealing you in that particular sarcophagi.


#34
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,114
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Unpopular
And what about Georgia's Republican Secretary of State and Republican Attorney General both insisting after many investigations there was no fraud? 
Like I said, establishment Republicans hate Trump. Kemp and Raffensberger are included with McCain. No wonder Raff isn’t running again. He knows he’s screwed.
#35
Unpopular
Unpopular's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 98
0
1
3
Unpopular's avatar
Unpopular
0
1
3
-->
@ILikePie5
Okay so neither Republicans or Democrats can be trusted. ONLY people who support Trump i.e. only those who stand by whatever he says can be trusted to tell the truth.  Lol welcome to the clown show. 
#36
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Wylted
@oromagi
I want you to explain why an if there is no fraud, that they are trying to prevent audits. These audits are harmless if they are innocent.
  • The audits are less than harmless, they are irrelevant to the legitimacy of the election which was sealed on Jan 6th, shortly after Trump's mismanaged and cowardly coup attempt failed to prevent certification.
    • The only thing called an audit I'm aware of is in Arizona which is an entirely extra-legal show for the benefit of FOX New viewers.  As soon as private individuals removed the Maricopa County ballots and voting machines from the custody of state officials (and the bipartisan oversight guaranteed by that custody) those ballots ceased to serve any legal audit.  The State of Arizona is constitutionally required to ignore those ballots and never trust those voting machines again- at a cost of at least millions to Maricopa County residents. So that stopped being an official election audit on April 22nd.    The State of Arizona is bound by law to ignore any and all findings by that exclusively Republican and entirely opaque effort.

#37
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Wylted
This is like a murderer claiming they are innocent, and that because you have no evidence, you should not go search for evidence. 

What noun does the pronoun "this" stand for in this sentence?
#38
Unpopular
Unpopular's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 98
0
1
3
Unpopular's avatar
Unpopular
0
1
3
-->
@Greyparrot
Ultimate Authority is most decidedly the Elites in Washington DC along with the army of elite lobbyists.


Explain how Trump proved he was  against the army of elite lobbyists by rescinding the lobbying ban he enacted at the beginning of his presidency.  Lol. 

All he did was distract his supporters by whining about the media a daily basis while continuing to empower the rich and  ruling class.  He did nothing to take down the elites and barely pretended to try. You won't be able to name a single lasting impact Trump made at improving the status quo. I'd call him a failure, but know he never made an effort. It was always all about power and ego. Still is. 
#39
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@ILikePie5
->@Wylted
Oromagi is under the assumption that all these Democrats are lying or compromised by conservatives because of the fact they saw ballots with perfect markings, which all voted for Joe Biden in the most blue counties in Georgia - DeKalb, Fulton, and Cobb. Also the fact that after the judge, a Democrat, announced his decision, the place where ballots were kept was mysteriously broken into. Ofc officials claim nothing happened and nothing happened to the ballots. The same officials that would have had a hand in this voter fraud.
I don't how I can be under an assumption regarding a subject I have no information about.  What are you talking about?
#40
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Wylted
Oromagi, address what pue just said. If there is no fraud why did the convenient break in happen? 
I have no idea what convenient break refers to.  


Topic's author
#41
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@oromagi
Ask yourself, are there more reliable sources of information regarding the US 2020 Election outcome than Canadian religious zealots who deny the existence of COVID in the face of an ongoing world pandemic and have been banned from social websites for the extremity of prior disinformation campaigns.  If the answer is yes and if those more reliable sources all say your source is bullshit, then the onus is on you the claimant to use more reliable data.
I'm going to have to see some evidence they think covid19 is fake. I know youtube likes to ban people who just disagree with whatever the current popular narrative is. I saw somebody kicked off for suggesting that maybe we could have waited a few more months for releasing the vaccines. 

This is just what liberals are doing now. Taking over free speech platforms like youtube and Twitter and then randomly deciding to eliminate political dissidents. Google doesn't just do this to appease the establishment in America, they also help China erase dissension as well. 

Further, I cited reliable polling data to show that fewer and fewer Americans believe Trump's Big Lie, disproving your claim.
You'll have to do better than. "Being a mindless NPC is better, you should believe what most people believe like me" . I like to see evidence for beliefs and not just fallacious appeal to authority, especially when authority is usually dominated by pro establishment individuals. 


Someone believing in multiple conspiracy theories or a unified conspiracy theory is also likely to have a completely distorted view of reality," citing Holocaust deniers as an example of someone so out of touch with the facts that they can be dismissed out of hand.  I have no problem sealing you in that particular sarcophagi.


You could have just reworded this to say. "I Have no critical thinking skills, so whatever the television says is what I blindly believe. The media never distorts the truth and the American government has never done anything bad and lied about it. The Tuskegee experiments, slavery, and cointelpro are all lies, derp"
Topic's author
#42
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@oromagi
The conveienent "break in" pie referred to. Also known as a burglary 
#43
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@ILikePie5
-->@Lemming
Didn't a number of Republican officials responsible for their state election results 'already check for fraud?
If you’re talking about Arizona and Maricopa County specifically....their “audits” are pretty much shams. 
Agreed, although that's just one and the same audit.

Anyways, we’re talking specifically about Georgia here....
Breaking into a place where they keep the ballots the judge said should be examined doesn’t bring trust into the institution.
OK, let's get some documentation at that there claim.

Neither does career Democratic operatives claiming something fishy was up.
Again, what't the story?
#44
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,905
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Unpopular
Explain to me EXACTLY what is stopping Biden right now and today from banning lobbyists in Washington DC without going through the usual tropey Orangemanbad mental gymnastics.
#45
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Wylted
@ILikePie5
What GP said. Establishment GOP also hated Trump. Arizona is establishment GOP country. Such a shame that the state that put Goldwater in the spotlight behaves this way. Although I suspect it has something to do with the Hanoi Songbird - another beauty.
It's also where John McCain is from. Remember he is born to an evil man who hated his son enough that he ordered bombing where he thought his son was a POW. He as some of those evil genetics, but Arizona Republicans love him. 
John McCain was a god-damned true blue American hero.  He ran into an exploding arsenal to save lives when every other man on deck ran or died.  He comforted the Forrestal's engineers as they volunteered to suffer slow and agonizing deaths to save the carrier and comforted their families for the rest of his life  He refused better treatment than his fellow soldiers in a Viet Cong prison at the cost of lifelong pain and paralysis, he single-handedly  saved the Affordable Care Act and told hard truths to Republicans who would only hear lies.  Full on double bird to all anti-American haters: may the ghost of John McCain meet you at the pearly gates and kick your craven corpses all the way down to hell.

#46
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Wylted
@oromagi
The conveienent "break in" pie referred to. Also known as a burglary 
Somebody is actually going to have to tell this story if they genuinely want a response.  I'm googling Georgia election break-in, georgia judge voter break-in etc and coming up with nothing.
#47
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Wylted
@oromagi
Ask yourself, are there more reliable sources of information regarding the US 2020 Election outcome than Canadian religious zealots who deny the existence of COVID in the face of an ongoing world pandemic and have been banned from social websites for the extremity of prior disinformation campaigns.  If the answer is yes and if those more reliable sources all say your source is bullshit, then the onus is on you the claimant to use more reliable data.
I'm going to have to see some evidence they think covid19 is fake.

Your the one who reads this shit but okay,

that 11 month into the epidemic.  So, what, even Trump was in on it?

Further, I cited reliable polling data to show that fewer and fewer Americans believe Trump's Big Lie, disproving your claim.
You'll have to do better than.
Nope.  Your claim is "more and more Americans  believe X"  I have given you Reuters and Pew polls saying that you've got it wrong and in fact fewer American believe X than ever before.  Polling data is obvious primary source for defending a claim like "more and more Americans"  You don't have any polling.  You don't have any sources that believe in basic shit like COVID is a real disease.  I don't have to do better than that.  That is good enough to show that you are just making shit up.

Someone believing in multiple conspiracy theories or a unified conspiracy theory is also likely to have a completely distorted view of reality," citing Holocaust deniers as an example of someone so out of touch with the facts that they can be dismissed out of hand.  I have no problem sealing you in that particular sarcophagi.
You could have just reworded this to say. "I Have no critical thinking skills,
Yes, but my critique had more erudition.
Topic's author
#48
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@oromagi
Him saving the ACA, shed the veil that establishment Republicans and Democrats are a part of different teams. I just can't believe McCain was so evil, that one of his last acts was to say "screw America, I am on team illuminati " or whatever skull and bones members call themselves these days. 
Topic's author
#49
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@oromagi
I concede. I forgot I made the claim about more americans. You are correct that poll disproves me.

The article you cited is them quoting a doctor, not making a claim though. 
Topic's author
#50
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
I said more and more people are raising the alarm, not more and more are believing the claims
#51
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 77
Posts: 3,565
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
-->
@oromagi
Being banned from YouTube seems to be a prevalent issue. I was banned from YouTube. I'm just an ordinary conservative. That's supposed to be a reason for being banned? My subject was far from political; it was religious. I thought the free expression of ideas was to be preserved in this country. Nope.
#52
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,114
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@oromagi
OK, let's get some documentation at that there claim.
#53
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,114
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@fauxlaw
It’s always one sided. I wonder why. I don’t see any Big Tech banning the Ayatollah when they repeatedly chant death to Israel and America
#54
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,114
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Unpopular
Okay so neither Republicans or Democrats can be trusted. ONLY people who support Trump i.e. only those who stand by whatever he says can be trusted to tell the truth.  Lol welcome to the clown show. 
I can’t help you if you haven’t realized the GOP and Democratic Establishments are buddies after all these years. Their enemies are Trump and the left wing progressives. Both of these groups represent a threat to them.
#55
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
A cursory think through would reveal this:
No innocent person would destroy evidence
To be flatly false. 

First, assuming that evidence has been "destroyed"
Second, that said destruction is helpful in hiding fraud or a result of x or y
Third, that said person who "destroyed" x is guilty

These are the assumptions we have to make before we can even get into this. 

An innocent person can be duped into destroying something
An innocent person can destroy something for one purpose unrelated to the crime you are accusing them (legally speaking)
An innocent person can dupe themselves into destroying something (so ethically speaking)
An innocent person can ignorantly destroy something (so factually)

So to me - it seems like you're so caught up with a narrative you accidentally made a stupid talk. 
#56
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@ILikePie5
thx!  I'll take a look
Topic's author
#57
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@Theweakeredge

First, assuming that evidence has been "destroyed"
Not really. Conservatives asked to inspect machines and they were literally banning them from doing so and erasing data on them. Injunctions were made to stop the destruction by judges who apparently are corrupt. That is destroying evidence. 


Second, that said destruction is helpful in hiding fraud or a result of x or y

The fact they are doing it, proves they think the destruction is helping. If you think M otherwise, please tell me what other logical motive exists


An innocent person can be duped into destroying something

Okay, well in this case the duper is the one I would label the destroyer.


An innocent person can destroy something for one purpose unrelated to the crime you are accusing them (legally speaking)

Give an example of why an innocent person would reject a probe into their innocence?


So to me - it seems like you're so caught up with a narrative you accidentally made a stupid talk. 
I don't really follow any narratives. I browse random political sites of various ideologies and just read media reports that are shared

#58
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@ILikePie5
@Wylted
Oromagi is under the assumption that all these Democrats are lying or compromised by conservatives because of the fact they saw ballots with perfect markings, which all voted for Joe Biden in the most blue counties in Georgia - DeKalb, Fulton, and Cobb.

Well I've read the accounts of Suzi Voyle and Bridget Thorne and I got to say that's like the opposite you saying here.

Suzi Voyles is not a Democrat, she is a Phyllis Schlafly Republican and President of Schlafly's Eagle Forum group.  In the Reagan era, that used to be about as right-wing as a respectable Republican could get.  Way right of Reagan.

Not Dekalb or Cobb county.  Voyles and Thorne were Fulton county.

Voyles reports that she saw a cluster of "about 110 ballots- all from one nursing home and only two of the votes were for Trump, additionally Suzi reports that the 110 nursing home ballots were suspiciously neat.  Well, okay.  I mean, there's not much point to doubting her because there's nothing really suspicious in the claim.  Old black people in downtown Atlanta are some of the most reliably Democratic voters in party history and there is nothing strange about 98.1% pro Biden return from a nursing home there.  I think its fine for her to voice her perception of excess tidiness and fine that they checked it out and found nothing- no double votes, no excess votes since the last count, no fake names or out-of-precinct voters.   So even if we do take a look and they are still too neat (I think all ballots were subject to a hand count after Suzi's count), what are we supposed to do with that?  We can't just deny the voters the franchise on the basis of neatness.  I guess I'm asking what's to find?  It's all so super vague.

Also the fact that after the judge, a Democrat, announced his decision, the place where ballots were kept was mysteriously broken into. Ofc officials claim nothing happened and nothing happened to the ballots. The same officials that would have had a hand in this voter fraud.

I don't know why you'd suspect the Democrats would want to break into the courthouse- essentially, the Dems (and the State of Georgia) claim that whatever was sealed after the election proves their claim.  Only Trumpists have the motivation (and the priors, you tricky dicks) to try to fuck with the sealed ballot stash before the Judge reviews on the 21st.  If the break-in was politically motivated it could only be pro-Trump in outlook.

With that in mind, let's be sure to note that Suzi was asked NOT to return to count future elections because she was bringing ballots away from the counting table and over to Republican poll watchers, which as a seasoned veteran of the Fulton County election system Suzi already knew was deeply suspicious conduct.  So ask yourself which is more suspicious, a hundred overly neat ballots or Suzi actually messing with some ballots herself?  wtf suzi?

I keep hearing little anecdotal cases of voting fraud but every single incidence is  a vote for Trump.  For example, a local guy murdered his wife last year but filled out her ballot for Trump which he was charged with alongside the murder a couple of weeks ago.

Are there any proven cases of pro-Biden voting fraud?  because all I ever hear of are individual cases and all pro-Trump/

#59
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,060
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Greyparrot
@Wylted
No innocent person tries to destroy evidence.
An ambiguous statement if ever I saw one.


And  yep....Electoral systems are inherently corruptible.

And yep...The propaganda  of the left and right, is salt pinchingly takeable.


Same as it ever was.
#60
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,239
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Wylted
Big names complicit in the fraud are trying to stop audits of the vote, trying to stop an investigation or audit is as good as a confession in my book btw, honest people want to be investigated and cleared. 
This is the same argument conspiracy theorists have been using to justify everything from the moon landings to 9/11 was an inside job.

We don’t decide whether to investigate something based on a coin flip. Investigations require a valid predicate, and it’s the person calling for the investigation that is tasked with providing it. Why? For the same reason it’s not your job to prove to me that there are no Martians coming to kill us. The burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim.

There is no valid reason to investigate 2020 election fraud, there are perfectly valid reasons not to. Namely, because the investigations themselves add to the made up narrative that there was something wrong with the past election. Why? Because investigations are normally only conducted when there is a valid predicate. Full circle.

And all of that is before we get to the absurdity of the AZ “audit”. First of all, real audits are conducted by the state and done so in a systematic bipartisan fashion. This audit is being conducted by a private company with no audit experience lead by a guy who claimed prior that the 2020 election was stolen.

Further, because of the fact that this is a private company, all of these machines have to be thrown out because state elections officials cannot use them now that the chain of custody has been broken.

Lastly, the things they are looking for is just down right insane. Using 5k cameras for traces of bamboo to see if the ballots were shipped from China? Complete and total lunacy.

The fact that democrats are pushing back against this isn’t sign of anything other than common sense and a desire to govern, as opposed to republicans demonstrated desire to chase down conspiracy theories because they cannot handle a loss.

And BTW, why are republicans only interested in auditing areas that Trump lost? Apparently only democrats can cheat, even though the only example in recent years of an actual election being stolen was done so by a republican. The projection is staggering.