I say no because they reject that Jesus is God.
Are JWs christians?
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@Tradesecret
Why does that mean they're not Christians?
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@Lemming
Do you know what the first 6 letters of Christianity mean?
@RatMan.
Usually an utterance that accompanies astonishment.
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@Tradesecret
From what I read here - Christians are people who generally in principal agree with Jesus. I don't see why they need to believe Jesus is god.
I can be a Stalinist - and I don't think he was god.
There is a huge difference between someone who believes Jesus is God and someone who follows the Life of Christ. If Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in the Divinity of Christ the no, I would not call them Christian.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Isn't it enough to believe he was a/the son of God?
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@Lemming
It might be a technicality but personally no if you don't believe Jesus is God I don't consider you a Christian. I mean Thomas Jefferson obviously felt Jesus Christ was a very good example to live his life by but I wouldn't consider him a Christian and I think calling him one might have insulted him. People can feel free to label themselves however they want to and I'll call them that but I do think there should be some standard to what's Christian and what isn't.
They still believe in Jesus, and by most definitions worship him, so clearly yes.
We really don't need to play gatekeeper on such a broad term as Christian.
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@Polytheist-Witch
There is a huge difference between someone who believes Jesus is God and someone who follows the Life of Christ. If Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in the Divinity of Christ the no, I would not call them Christian.
But they do believe that Jesus is the " only the son of god" but not god, you see , Witch. And this would make him divine.
They also believe the Resurrection to be only spiritual and was never physical. They appear to have learned over the years that days old rotten stinking corpses of dad people, do not come back to life.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Fair enough, though I disagree.
And respond to the Jefferson point, with all the people who consider Jesus the son of God, Yet consider themselves Christians.
Systems 'can get a bit odd though, Religious 'or Political,
As different interpretations and practices grow.
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@Stephen
I'm not sure I accept that as a polytheist. Hercules was not a God he was a demigod and was very limited in what he couldn't could not do so, Christ being the son of God doesn't necessarily make him Divine in my book but again whatever people want to call themselves I'm okay with that.
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@Polytheist-Witch
I'm not sure I accept that as a polytheist. Hercules was not a God he was a demigod and was very limited in what he couldn't could not do so,Christ being the son of God doesn't necessarily make him Divine in my book
But the thread is about what it is Jehovah witnesses believe , Witch, and not what you or I believe . bedsides I have said many times now that "son of god" is only a title given to other biblical kings , and indeed the whole of the nation of Israel:
"Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, my firstborn. (Exodus 4:22)
but again whatever people want to call themselves I'm okay with that.
Me too.
Just a thought. This thread doesn't seem a very tolerant and loving towards "thy christian neighbours" to me. There again the scriptures do say:
2John 1: 10-11
" If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works" .
So on this occasion and on for this thread, I guess it has been decided by those that believe themselves to be "real" Christians, that Matthew 7:1 is to be ignored altogether.
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@Stephen
Pretty sure the topic is JW's think they're Christians what do you think so yeah they are kind of asking our opinion on it which is why I gave it no one has to like it but that is the topic.
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@Polytheist-Witch
they are kind of asking our opinion on it which is why I gave it no one has to like it but that is the topic.
And I totally agree with you , Witch.
I was thinking more the OP's divisive thread rather than any comments that maybe seen as divisive. It appears to fly in the face of what Jesus is supposed to have taught about loving they neighbour, regardless of what they proclaim to have ` witnessed `.
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@Tradesecret
They self identify as Christians but are liable to be rejected as such by mainstream Christianity due to their differing beliefs regarding the Trinity.
Jehovah's Witnesses identify as Christians, but their beliefs are different from other Christians in some ways. For instance, they teach that Jesus is the son of God but is not part of a Trinity.
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@Tradesecret
The prudent act would be to ask one. Best source, yeah?
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@Nevets
I will note that the Nicene Creed offers one view of the trinity, but it curiously was not called the Christian Creed, was it? Why not?
I'm quite certain the Jesus I read about would not have much cared whether people believed he was part of any trinity or whether he was a figurative son of God or a literal son of God. Jesus would have called that focusing on the wrong shit.
The Parable of the Good Samaritan makes clear that the Samaritan was a good neighbor who would inherit eternal life- even though he was not baptized and not Christian or even a Jew and the uncharitable priest and Levite were not good neighbors even though they were Jews in good standing. Focus on your acts and piety and purity of intention and care not how other people worship or what they get right or wrong about the nature of Jesus and God. When judgement comes, philosophy and sect will count for nothing- only your own adherence to your own faith and your acts of charity towards others of every faith will be judged.
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@Barney
By What standards do they worship Jesus? It was my understanding that they believe you can only worship the one true God. Are you saying that they are polygamous? Would they consider this to be true?
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@Stephen
And you never proved it. Sons of God for all Israel kings.
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@fauxlaw
Yes it is one of the creeds that the church has universally accepted. Other cults have rejected it. But the church has stood firm.
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@oromagi
Perhaps you have not read widely enough then?
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@fauxlaw
Ordinarily that makes sense. But if I were to ask an alcoholic if they were an alcoholic they would deny it. And if I asked a JW if they were a heretic they would deny it too. And obviously if I asked them if they were a Christian organisation - or what a Christian was - they would simply give me their own definition. If people don’t believe that Jesus is LORD - where the meaning is clearly referring to the One True God then they are not in the biblical view a Christian. Just because I choose to identify as one does not make me one. God elects his people and separates them to himself.
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@Nevets
True they would be rejected by the mainline and traditional church.
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@Tradesecret
Polygamous? You think they have more than one wife? Perhaps you are thinking about the LDS and their historical position?
I think you mean - polytheistic. More than one god.
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@Tradesecret
And if I asked a JW if they were a heretic they would deny it too.
Wrong question. I don't doubt that if anyone is asked if they are anything that is not praiseworthy, they're likely to deny it. I said, ask them if they are Christian. If someone acknowledge's the Christ as Savior and Redeemer, I respect that declaration, even if there are doctrinal differences between us. I don't acknowledge the Nicene Creed as interpreted, but then the Nicene Creed says nothing of the interpretation that Christ occupies the seat of the throne with God the Father as his equal, because Christ's sonship will always hold that relationship as a literal Son of God, even in the flesh. The Creed acknowledges that Christ is seated at God's right hand, a righteous, but subservient position. Christ, too, worships God the Father, and always will as his Son..
It's the old GOD/Christ thing.
Are they supposedly one and the same, or are they not?
Make your minds up theists.
A Christian is just a Christian Club member...As a JW. is a JW Club member, etc.....They might also be named Dave or Dave.
So is a Dave a Dave?
Or are they all GOD botherers.
Once upon a time, someone splashed water on my head and now I'm in a cycling club.
And what about the Catholic Club?.....Are Catholics Christians?
Ask Mary...She's the go between.
All good fun.
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@Tradesecret
And you never proved it. Sons of God for all Israel kings.
Ok. So you want to drag up an old argument that you hadn't even a clue about until I pointed the facts out to you.
The proof comes from your adopted god himself, you clown. But then you have never read these scriptures for yourself have you. You have only had them read to you and just "passed on" what you have been taught to pass on and without an "agenda", from what I recall you telling me. I shall see if I can dig it out for you.
"Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, my firstborn. (Exodus 4:22)
Are you saying this would EXCLUDE his chosen kings? Your adopted god makes it perfectly clear who his sons are.
Then there is :
Jeremiah 31:20
Deuteronomy 14:1
Psalm 82:6
Jeremiah 3:19
Psalm 73:15
Then god also calls these particular kings his "sons" directly:
God said of Solomon : King Solomon: He shall be a son to Me, and I will be a Father to him. I Chronicles 22:9-10
God said of David: You are My son; today I have begotten you."Psalms 2:7
Yes here we are, a Pastor. Chaplain that " simply passes on" but has no agenda>>
the Reverend Tradesecret wrote: I in most parts are merely passing on the teaching of what i have received. I do not have an agenda. I really don't.
You must be the only Pastor/ Chaplain in the whole world that has forgotten his "agenda"and the direct instruction given to all followers of Jesus and from the mouth of Jesus himself. I have highlighted it clearly for you.
It is commonly known as The Great Commission
Matthew 28:16-20
New International Version
The Great Commission
16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
And just who the fk do you think you are to say someone is or isn't a Christian? Where do you get the authority to make such a decree?
I have proven your own persistent bible ignorance and multiple failings.
You know nothing about the scriptures that you spout about and " simply pass on" . You know nothing of your adopted god. You don't know what your purpose is as a minister of god. You know very little about many of the biblical characters. In truth, you know nothing. But you believe that you can designate who is and who isn't a Christian!!!?
Oh and seeing that YOU brought the subject up, tell me, what does Jesus about the peacemakers?
ESV
“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.Matthew 5:9
PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT IT WAS YOU THAT STEERED THIS DISCUSSION IN THE DIRECTION IT NOW SEEMS TO BE HEADING IN.
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@Tradesecret
By What standards do they worship Jesus?
Apparently they believe Jesus to be a deity created by God and born from the virgin Mary, as opposed to having always been there. Other than this semantic issue, they seem to worship Jesus much the same as any other Christian.
It was my understanding that they believe you can only worship the one true God. Are you saying that they are polygamous?
Special pleading would be required to say they don't worship Jesus. Take your pick of dictionaries, the scope of the word is not that narrow.
Would they consider this to be true?
Probably not. But then again, Christianity is only monotheistic by virtue of declaring it to be so, much how 2+2=5 or whatever other number happens to be suitable to religious or political leaders. Or to use a more direct proof, monotheism requires one, Christians tend to believe in a trinity (AKA 3), so if 3>1 not monotheistic. Granted, once you toss angels and such into the religion, it's already polytheism by any other name (not that there's anything wrong with that).
Looking at another set, let's see if following the Greek gods is monotheistic or polytheistic: Zeus is the top god (if you want you can go up to the first titan instead of Zeus), he created a bunch of other supernatural beings, but he's the top one. Does others indicate more than 1? If so, poly. In Abrahamic beliefs, God created angels and such, which again are numbers greater than 1 equal to just 1?