Why I left Christianity

I have heard some bad things about Islam like if you leave Islam, you get put to death.  Other than that I don't know too much about Islam.

Hi yasmine nice to see you back and causing trouble. Lol! 

Your logic is as bad as ever though. Islam has been demonstrated over and over as morally corrupt.

Muslim talk the talk but don’t walk the walk. Behind closed doors the truth is revealed and it is quite ugly. 

Domestic violence runs deep. Sexual violence runs deep. Hypocrisy runs deep.

The religion of peace is deeply violent and hate filled against the west. And against the Jews.

But hey nice to see you back. Perhaps this time you might be influenced to repent of your sins, dish the dead guy and turn over a new leaf. 

Quran 4:89 - "They [Munafiqeen] wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper. Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them."

Quran 51 - "You, who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you " then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people".

Quran 8:12 - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them".

Quran 8:60 - "And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows."

Surah 9:5 - "[This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists [who violated the treaty]. So travel freely, [O disbelievers], throughout the land [during] four months [...] Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him]. And when the inviolable months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give charity, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah [i.e., the Qur’ān]. Then deliver him to his place of safety." (Quran 9:1-6)

 And before anyone suggests it. I am not saying that ALL MUSLIMS are fanatics or terrorists. But considering that it only takes a novel written or a cartoon drawn to upset the Muslim world that will demand the head of anyone committing "blasphemy" , in my opinion, I think Muslims themselves need to have  a rethink about what they believe and preach to their own children  in the 21st century.

The US has never stopped persecuting people for political views, wether be it the Irish, or the Chinese, or the catholics after them, or the Japanese in WWII, or the communists in the Red Scare, or the muslims in the War on Terror

now for so many things I can't even count: white-nationalism, nazism, racism, antisemitism, homophobia, transphobia...etc.

Propaganda. The State, by design, must terminate what or who undermines it, otherwise endangering itself.

 I can say things in Saudi Arabia & nobody would care, but if I say them in the US they would likely throw me in jail.

You are indoctrinated since early age to sanctify democracy & liberty & freedom of speech

 Although most schools do think this hadith refers to apostasy, the Awzai school does not, as they understood the word 'Deen' to mean allegiance.

The Hanafi school interpret the word as allegiance in religion, for the Prophet (pbuh) specifies in a different hadith "those who abandon their faith & desert the community" (providing a more restrictive definition): thus they sanction death for militant apostasy. The Maliki school, on the other hand, take the view that this applies to any apostate who knowingly & willingly came into religion then left it.

 A Snowden from another country might have been celebrated there as a hero, while in the US he is deemed a traitor.

There is probably a 0.1% to 1% atheists in the Muslim world, that's millions of people... That does not mean apostates are killed either.

There are two ways an apostate might get in serious trouble with the state: 1. publicly criticize the state

2. really push the envelope, like insult the Prophet (pbuh) or burn the Quran or something like that.

 You keep cutting things out of context.... You seem to be so keen on cutting verse out of context

It is so shocking to me how completely disassociated Americans are with the rest of the world, how utterly they are desensitized about the much suffering & damage their country causes around the world. The death toll of the US's war in terror (over 1.2 million, & millions displaced) is 300 times that of 9/11. I guess one American life is worth 300 Muslim lives. No state can sustain its dominion while causing so much destruction & inciting so much antagonism around the world.

I don't know why you used my old account name; I wouldn't have known you were referencing me otherwise in notifications.

But if that's the case, I might have to be an atheist.

 Bukhari[52:260] "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' ".  The Quran advocates the death penalty for those that leave Islam.

It's because of this that many people have a negative view of America, and they don't go to jail for it.

 The rest of this paragraph you claim that the penalty for leaving Islam is death according to the other schools you mentioned:

  Any victimless activity should be legal.

Islam on the other hand has no such intentions.

I feel sorry for Muslims. They are the biggest victims of Islam.

Heard it all before. You are forgetting the biggest empire in the world was Islamic,

and I do not believe that those countries that MUSLIMS invaded were invited to do so  by the local populations to overthrow them.

How many was it now, Five Muslim empires?

You are being is very selective with your analysis of western foreign policy too. You have  ignored the intervention in Kosovo where the west (rightly) saved the lives of countless Muslims from Serbian ethnic cleansing.

You mention nothing  of the first Gulf War where, thanks to US-led intervention, Kuwaitis were spared the horrors of a protracted Iraqi occupation.

But for you to to acknowledge such complexity would be far too problematic for you. Why spoil a good narrative after all. Why let the facts get in the way of a good whine and whinge.

Who invaded Coptic Egypt lands and killed millions of Copts to become Arab majority?

Who invaded Iraq which was Assyrian Christian and killed millions to become Arab majority?

Who invaded Syria to kill Syriac Orthodox to become Arab majority?

This is not to mention all the Muslim atrocities committed by MUSLIMS over a THOUSAND YEARS BEFORE there was ever a British Empire or a United Sates of America. 

- You mean to say CHRISTIANS.

And all the Muslims that I know, just want to chat about the same things that I want to chat about.

 Bukhari[52:260] "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' ".  The Quran advocates the death penalty for those that leave Islam.

- The same way the US Constitution does...

As for US today, we can see the news, every day. It's terrible. You don't have to go that far to lie to my face like that.

Not to burst your bubble friend, but much of the rest of the world does not have such a rosy picture of your country as you imagine.

You have to establish your convictions with proofs

As I said, the state can not allow anything that undermines its authority. The US constantly undermines governments all over the world, but it's too powerful to be undermined by other states. This was not the case during the Cold War, when the Soviets were almost as powerful. & this will not be the case in the near future either, for more powerful states are rapidly emerging, like China. From 1990s to 2000s the US has seen its most stable period, less so since the Patriot Act. & we have seen huge signs of instability in the US for the past couple of years, where, for instance, huge chunks of Trump supporters were jailed & silenced. Palosi called the attack on Hong Kong Parliament a "beautiful sight of behold" of people rising to topple the government accusing Hong Kong of human right violations, yet when the same thing happens in the US, they bring in 25k troops & jail people by the droves. This hypocrisy was not lost on anyone.

So if you leave your country to move to America, and you renounce your allegiance to your former country, you would get put to death?

- I'm talking about things a thousand years ago. How is that relevant today??? 

Snowden was regarded as a hero by many.

- Christchurch Tarrant was regarded as a hero by many too, your point? 

The Muslims in the US have to hide their Islam out of fear for being jailed or executed.

Maybe we can debate American values vs. Islamic values? You can pick the topic.

The US constitution doesn't kill atheists and it prohibits the death penalty except for high crimes and felonies.

and I think the Trump supporters were jailed for threatening politician's lives.

If someone breaks into my home, I might shoot them. I don't want to risk getting killed by some criminal, and if I have a gf, I don't want her getting raped.  I don't want my shit stolen.  This is why I would want to get a gun to protect myself.

Because your saying that if someone renounces their state in Islam, that they are put to death.

My point is that the US public didn't denounce Swoden for revealing the government's spying powers.

They don't get prosecuted for this.  Most people leave them alone.

 NOPE!. I mean MUSLIMS and well before a British Empire or the USA was even thought of.  

Yassine, you are no better than those demented fundamental Christians that believe that their god can do no wrong and is perfect in every way when both the bible and the Quran clearly prove for  themselves and anyone that cares to read them, that your gods are anything but. 

In the case of the Christians it is their own fault for adopting a god they didn't understand and knew absolutely nothing about, from a time they didn't understand and a culture that they didn't understand. 

I will say one thing for the Quran and that is:  as vile and violent and intolerant as it is,  it means exactly what it says and is true to itself.

Christianity, thankfully, went through a reformation, but the Abrahamic roots are still there and have been clung to,  to be highlighted and argued about for eternity. 

There seems to have been an attempted breakaway from the OT and the god of the Jews at one time

and I believe one can see this in Johns (the forth) gospel where John apparently is constantly referring to "the Jews" as if he was not a Jew himself and wanted no part of the Jew ideology/religion.

Anyway.  I have heard  the likes of all of your shite before as I have the attempted justification of the cruelty and unjustness of the Christian god that they now call Jesus the Christ..

Christianity has  extremely violent roots .

Islam has extremely violent roots, an extremally violent past and extremely violent present.

And I have already sad, that it is Muslims that are the biggest victims of Islam.

I mean, murder because of a cartoon!!?  A fatwa for writing a novel!!!  When the fk are you lot going to decide drag yourselves and you mentality  into the 21st century? 

 Yes, that really sells your violent ideology as the "religion of peace", doesn't it?

- Are you insane?!!

Your country lays waste to entire nations killing millions for much less. 

I was just reading on the hundreds of native children in church graveyards in Canada who were kidnapped by the Church from their parents to "civilize" them & to wipe out their history. Such sad events.

Yet, more than 50% of wars & deaths across history were instigated by Christians & westerners,.............................

If you were more agreeable -  with the way people understand it..#36

Timid8967

 Christians where as bad and ruthless as Muslims ever were and millions of Muslims still are.  If they are not taking part in this indiscriminate murder, many  support the actions of those that do.

 And if you haven't brought that good ol' SB excuse of  "Muslims only acting in self defence";   the crusades were the result of MUSLIM invasion into the holy land. 

You can play this bs tit-for -tat argument all day long. It doesn't alter that fact the Islam is not a religion of peace.

Or the fact that the Old Testament (written for the Hebrew and Israelite audience) and its god in particular starts with killing almost from the time of creation and the murder and slaughter  of the innocent on this gods commands   doesn't stop after  that.

You will be hard pushed to find a verse in the New Testament where the Christ himself orders the death of people that do not believe in him. 

Quran 9:29 - Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture – [fight] until they give the jizyah

(jizyah = tax levied by Muslim on non- - believers or be killed on refusal to pay willingly while they are humbled.)

 Like I have said, I have heard all these type of bullshite apologetics from Muslims before as I have heard similar apologetics  from Christians that attempt to defend the murderous orders to slaughter, rape, rob and enslave from the god that they adopted.

Heard it all before.

- Exactly! It means nothing to you.

- Since that's such an obvious fact, let's debate it.

 The Old Testament is part of the Christian Bible; a Christian who denies that is a heretic.

But, no country can sustain its hegemony while causing so much damage & so much death around the world.

 Like I have said, I have heard all these type of bullshite apologetics from Muslims before as I have heard similar apologetics  from Christians that attempt to defend the murderous orders to slaughter, rape, rob and enslave from the god that they adopted.

- I'm confused.

You will be hard pushed to find a verse in the New Testament where the Christ himself orders the death of people that do not believe in him. 

- "Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! I came not to bring peace, but a sword. I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." Matthew 10:34-35 "But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.” Luke 19:27. “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” (to a Canaanite woman asking Jesus for help) Matthew 15:26. It is indeed ironic how Jesus (pbuh) is portrayed in the Bible, confused & self-contradicted. Sometimes kind, sometimes a bigot, sometimes forgiving, sometimes vengeful; in contrast to how he is portrayed in our tradition, an example for compassion & austerity. These stories are clearly made up about Jesus (pbuh) to fit the authors' whims & agendas.

Are you a Christian or are you not? 

FKN YYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWN

- Exactly how I feel every time I read your posts.

That is what I find so disturbing. And it appears to me the you - the so called - House of Peace - also welcomes this.

But Islam cannot be reformed can it?  It cannot turn from violence "until all religion is for Allah", can it? Those are the instructions that come from the god of Islam.  

Stephen wrote;  "In the case of the Christians it is their own fault for adopting a god they didn't understand and knew absolutely nothing about, from a time they didn't understand and a culture that they didn't understand".

One will find much confusion in those that believe  in a supernatural events such as a being that can "fly to the moon on a donkey and split it in half"< Muslim .  OR donkey that speaks with the "voice of god".< Christian.

 Well done , very good.

NOW SEE bold above  and stop ignoring it.

You are forgetting who is supposed to be saying these words and who  the  -I - is. This is supposedly a god speaking about what HE has come for, what what HE intends .  

Your verses are not  clear outright instructions to HIS flowerers from HIM, to go out into the world and rape, murder, rob and enslave anyone that doesn't believe in HIM/ GOD , i.e  he is saying that HE god , god alone,  is the judge of mankind and not for man to judge. 

Unlike the vile and direct instructions given by the god of ISLAM to his adherents.

I will certainly grant you that your chosen biblical verses above do go against and contradict other statements that HE-  the Christian  god is also supposed to have said.  Such is nature of the bible. That is also why I have also said to you, if you have taken the time to read  :>>>>>

.....whereas the Christian New Testament is on the surface a jumble of ambiguous, anomalous and contradictory half stories that Christians  so hopelessly attempt to explain and defend.  Give them a few tough questions and LIKE YOU, they will say all kinds of lying shite in an attempt to defend the indefensible.

Then simply don't fkn read them, you clown.

For me, it changes a lot, which is why I often contradict myself on religion.  But I believe God exists, yet I don't worship him because I strongly disagree with some things God has done.

 But I believe God exists, yet I don't worship him because I strongly disagree with some things God has done.