Should alleged rape victims be belived?

Author: TheUnderdog

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Theweakeredge
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@Athias
Nope-  a consensus CAN be like that - however the "scientific consensus" is composed of all of the theories, laws, and hypothesis which are most strongly indicated by the evidence. You can assert otherwise, but you'd need to actually prove that (and you have a tad bit of a hard time actually presenting evidence).
Athias
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@Theweakeredge
Nope-  a consensus CAN be like that - however the "scientific consensus" is composed of all of the theories, laws, and hypothesis which are most strongly indicated by the evidence. You can assert otherwise, but you'd need to actually prove that (and you have a tad bit of a hard time actually presenting evidence).
None of that is of any consequence, because it isn't the indication of evidence that informs the veracity (negating the necessity of the consensus,) it's their agreement over the assumptions that inform the consensus.
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@Athias
it is your assumption that their assumption is what they are at consensus at - it is repeatable and controllable observation - same as any other field of science. You've continued to assert to the opposite but failed to actually prove it. For example: PSTD - we know of its symptoms because of repeatable, controlled, observation - backed up by field meta research. Your assumptions are borne of ignorance and bias. 
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I don't think a specific individuals belief really matters in an objective sense other than to the persons involved, so you should do what is best in context. If you're friends or family with the alleged victim you should support them unless there is very strong and immediately obvious evidence to the contrary. If you are friends or family with the alleged perpetrator, same deal. It's what we would be doing anyway since we are all super biased. If you don't know either party that well you should try to stay neutral and inoffensive. The law should be objective, as it is, with the presumption of innocence. In terms of cases with lots of publicity (like Kavanaugh's) people have the right to speculate even though it must be an incredibly horrible experience to be called a liar if you actually are a victim. Can't imagine. But at the end of the day, we can't simply just believe any accusation without looking for evidence 
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@TheUnderdog
I support the believe women movement because all genders (men and women) are significantly more likely to be raped than they are to be falsely accused of rape.


But from what we can tell: yes, men are more likely to be raped than be falsely accused of rape.
According to the most reliable data we have, the average adult man in England and Wales aged 16 to 59 has a 0.03 per cent chance of being raped over the course of a year (based on 2016-17 figures).
The best data we have — the number of people prosecuted for making false allegations — suggests that the average adult man in England and Wales has a 0.00021281 per cent chance of being falsely accused of rape in a year. (That’s based on 35 prosecutions for false rape allegations in 2011 compared to 16.5 million men aged 16 to 59 living in England and Wales at the time).
By this measure, a man is 230 times more likely to be raped than to be falsely accused of rape.
And many conservatives don't support believe women out of the fear that some are innocent.  However, most conservatives also support the death penalty even though there is a chance that some convicts are innocent.  I am willing to take a little bit of risk to secure justice.
Hi to TheUnderdog,

I think our system has many flaws. It is not perfect.  Nevertheless, the presumption of innocence must stand and not be tainted. If it slips for one innocent person, then no one will be safe.  The slope is too slippery in this situation.  While it may be true that the statistics bear out a false dichotomy between those raped v those falsely accused, this does not necessarily mean that this presumption ought to change or be reversed.  

Every accused should have the right to face their accuser.  I think likening it to the death penalty is unhelpful.   The outcome does not justify the means. The journey and the destination are both equally valuable.  The process is important.  

Rape is a criminal offence.  And so it should be.  Yet, perhaps we are looking at this the wrong way.   In the old days, sex outside of marriage was considered immoral and required punishment. True, the world has moved on, but at least then the line was very clear in the sand.  Of course it is also true that nowadays rape occurs within the marriage - which demonstrates how far the world has moved on.  

Yet, now sex at least since the sexual revolution has moved from the sacred bed within marriage to a  social recreational activity.  We are encouraged to not get trapped in the old traditional ways of being too serious about sex.  Yet this paradigm shift in sexual activity and its purposes have obviously also produced a change in our attitude towards it in relation to its seriousness and sacredness.  This shift in attitude about sex has drifted into how serious the offence of rape is.  "It was just a bit of fun". "It's not that bad". Gee, it is only skin.  "It's no big deal".   For many young men it is no different to playing a game.  Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. And if you cheat and don't get caught - good for you.   Consent - is not a big deal when it is just a game and recreation.   Consent is only a big deal when we are talking about serious things like a contract or getting married or whatever. 

Rape according to Germaine Greer, the feminist writer, is just "bad sex".   In some ways she is right. It depends upon what you think sex is for and whether it is serious or not serious or even sacred.   

I am a bit of a traditionalist.  I think sex is serious. Yes it can be fun and delightful - but it is more like fire than it is like a play water fight.   It is good and excellent in its proper place - draw a line there I say.  Yet, changing the law - especially a fundamental presumption of law which is one of the foundational planks of our legal system is dangerous and will end up not achieving what you hope but will end up penalizing many innocent people. And is a tool that a deviant government will use for its own ends, 


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@Theweakeredge
90,000 rape cases annually
Where are you getting that number? The FBI only reported 16,599 arrests for rape in 2019.

so using a statistic that gets it samples from less than 40 cases is non-representative
Comments like these (after I have explained it like 3 times by now) are why I condescended.

There were more than 40 reported. I am at a loss: what are you not understanding about less than forty binge within a year of the call???? There were many more than forty in the data set cases reported from the 16,000 respondents. If you don't understand that, just stop responding.

so that "17.6%" is wrong at best. 

Until I see a source better than the Department of Justice, I'm going to have to disagree ^_^
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@bmdrocks21
there was more than 40 rapes REPORTED, but the cases that were actually followed - yeah that was less than 40 - hence my objection to your statistic - also - we are talking about the percentage of rape reporting that are true - hence - in order to get an accurate number of the amount of rape allegations that are true - you have to go to the RAPE REPORTS, not the total rape convictions - because so many things happen that make simply repeating the total number of people arrested for rape non representative- but even if your number was the one we'd use here - 17,000 rapes STILL isn't represented by less than 40 respondents. 

"Because only 24 women and 8 menreported during their interviews that theyhad been raped in the 12 months preceding the survey, the annual estimatesshould be viewed with caution"
This is literally copied and pasted from the study, talking about the limitations... and you know - again - ignoring that its 20 years old
zedvictor4
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@Theweakeredge.

Serious question:
Dot you think that State Funded Multi-disciplined Brothels would have a huge impact on rape statistics?

Is addressing the issue as simple as providing a free (safe) and available, means to a necessary end?
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  Consent - is not a big deal when it is just a game and recreation.   Consent is only a big deal when we are talking about serious things like a contract or getting married or whatever. 

Rape according to Germaine Greer, the feminist writer, is just "bad sex".   In some ways she is right. It depends upon what you think sex is for and whether it is serious or not serious or even sacred.   

That's a lot of bs. 
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@zedvictor4
As long as all sexwork there is consensual, then no - it should not have any effect on rape statistics. However, industries like the owners of P*rnhub and such are extremely coercive, to the point, that yeah - I would consider sexual harassment - especially because a lot of contracts are being signed without lawyers present, and predatory advertising is a big problem with the industry. 

So - in summation - as long as the industries aren't being coercive little shits, it shouldn't impact rape stats at all - however - there are industries that are coercive little shits, that should impact the rape stats, but I doubt they're being included, I would have to do more research. 
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@Theweakeredge

Hmmmm.

I was actually suggesting that;  State/Society providing a means to a necessary end, might reduce the problem of rape.

All that pent up frustration (primary drive)  and nowhere to go, as it were.

Or is rape a broader psychological issue, that is not necessarily focussed on the instinctive need to procreate?


Maybe our whole historically and religiously acquired moral system, is actually, fundamentally flawed.


And inevitably it seems, "coercive little shits" is to put it politely, indicative of your age......If you thought about it dispassionately for a second, you should/would realise, that such criticisms could just as easily and justifiably be aimed at you......The overly passionate nature of your discourse, is oftentimes given without consideration for those you are interacting with......"Coercive little shits" adds nothing of quality to the discourse.

Teen-speak is for teens.....I've been there and done that.