Derek Chauvin was found guilty

Author: Theweakeredge

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#1
Theweakeredge
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For the murder of one George Floyd Derek Chauvin was found guilty on all three accounts that he was charged on: second-degree manslaughter, third-degree murder, and second-degree murder. 

Though a part of me wants to celebrate that a part of our system is finally taking accountability to our police forces, the victory is hollow, the decision could be appealed, or (more likely) this will happen all over again and the guy won't be charged. It's also, absolutely ridiculous how this farce could go on this long, why are so many people so insistent that this person killed another person, most likely because of racism? But we can't even get their can we, because we can't even agree that George Floyd was murdered - and that's really the ridiculous part.

How are such intelligent people so dismayed by the thought that their role models might just not be as good as they thought they were, that they completely preclude the idea of murder even being an option. Before the doctor's testified that Floyd died because of the knee, people were all too happy to accept the Coroner's report to get the drug levels in his system. Before the police chief came out and testified that what Derek did was completely out of line with their training, people were more than happy to use the police manuals as a guide.

Why is it that every time something contradicts their views, they suddenly lose all of their self-awareness? 

Again, I would like this to be a victory of accountability, but truly - its not - its another step in a long and grueling journey to equality, an equality that not everybody believes that people deserve, and, just to be blunt, let's stop pretending that its anything else. Some people, just don't want black people to have the same justice wrought for them as white people, I really hate to paint such a broad brush, but given the preponderance of evidence, that is the only reasonable interpretation to make here. I'm sure most people disagree, that's fine - you can prove me right - right here. 
#2
Timid8967
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@Theweakeredge
I am not American - therefore it is in many respects an irrelevant part of history for me. Save and except it apparently set of a chain reaction around the world that systemic racism exists - and that the only racists in the world are whites. 

I reject that opinion. I think every race is racist.  And not just in a positive way but in a negative way. I have travelled to most nations on this world and experienced significant racism from almost every race.  

This death in American has been paraded as racism.  Having view both the footage presented by the prosecution and also the extra footage prior to what is typically presented - I think it was not actually about racism. I take the view that the police over-stepped his boundaries. And as such should be punished to the full extent of the law.   

The problem is - if the result had come back not-guilty, it would have created more riots - which personally I found more offensive than the attack on Capital Hill. Again I am not American and I did not agree with anyone storming the Hill. Yet Pelosi yesterday accepted the word of the Democrat lady who encouraged outrage and confrontation if the law did not agree with her.  I don't see any difference when any person chooses to say the law got it wrong. When Trump said the law was wrong. He was rightfully pulled up for it. Yet Pelosi wrongfully supported those said they would break the law if they did not get what they thought was the right decision when they are pro Democrat.  For me it simply proves that the Democrats will do anything to get what they want. They open themselves up to the criticism that they will cheat and lie and steal in order to win.  For them - they will do whatever it takes. 

It makes America the laughing stock of the world.  We laugh at the way the media runs politics in America. But you are schooled in the public education system to stop thinking for yourselves - and just to listen to the experts - who all get paid by the same people. 

Hopefully justice will be done in this case and be seen to be done as well.  But sometimes just having justice done is what needs to happen. When the results of the case - (and a court case is intrinsically a debatable or disputable case - to be observed and judged by those who can see all of the evidence -) are prejudiced from people outside that court case who have clear agenda like Pelosi or the entire BLM cause - then justice will never be seen to be done - unless the media's conclusion is realised. 

I was pleased he was found guilty - not because he did it or because he did not do it - but because if he was found not guilty those in America who lack common sense and self-control would have caused scenes like we saw earlier on.  Sometimes the greater good argument becomes what is justice - not true justice but greater good justice. 

America wants a civil war.  The Democrats and the Far Left are leading the charge. They want a revolution - a reset - a change in the system. They want a system like China where there is only ONE party - and when the government tells everyone else what to do and how to live.  Where ordinary people disappear for the greater good - because the greater good is not really the greater good of the people but of the Party.   

And if sentencing this police officer to prison where he will be killed within 5 years means that the Left will not have the justification to start this civil war then so be it.  Personally however if offends me to the core.  I am pleased I am not an American. I am pleased that we in our country are not so politically divided as you guys. 

 


#3
Vader
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As quoted from the Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, "thank you George Floyd for sacrificing yourself for justice."

Agree with the verdict
#4
Lemming
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@Vader
A large man, career criminal, robber , drug addict on illegal drugs at time of arrest, with heart problems, who once threatened a pregnant woman, get's caught counterfeiting a bill, resists the police, has a panic attack and dies.
Much of public goes overboard in whining about race, claim the criminal is an 'angel, put up pictures of him everywhere idolizing him as some saint-like martyr, threaten to loot and burn.
Criminal's family get's paid millions of dollars by GoFundMe, and the police department settlement.
Police throw cop under the bus.
Policeman get's convicted of 'murder.

Pff.

I accept that the verdict that's been reached, is the verdict that's been reached.
Doesn't mean I 'agree with it, but you won't find me rioting.

#5
ILikePie5
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@Lemming
I accept that the verdict that's been reached, is the verdict that's been reached.
Doesn't mean I 'agree with it, but you won't find me rioting.
You’re a very rational man and I 100% agree
#6
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@Lemming
who once threatened a pregnant woman,
Any news stories to confirm this? Because it sounds a lot like part of a long debunked conspiracy theory that he’s actually a Spanish rapist who was only pretending to die...

Don’t get be wrong, he was a horrible human being, but I prefer holding people accountable for what they actually did.
#7
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In my personal experience, I have, only once, had an encounter with the police for actions I know I bore responsibility; at 12, I and a few other boys took some concrete-splattered wood, 2x4s, from a home construction site in Brentwood [L.A.], my home. I thought they were discards, not knowing at the time they were to be re-used by the contractor as concrete forms. We were building a clubhouse in my friend's backyard. We got a lecture from a police officer in school, in the Principal's office, and, the assurance that we would return the wood with an apology to the contractor, we were let go with a warning. I learned, then, proper comportment with the police, which, ever after, have only been traffic incidents. Having once a red Porsche [I now drive a 20-year-old pick-up because it refuses to die] and, surprise, I am no longer a target. Even so, my respect for police when I was stopped repeatedly for speeding [red moves faster than other colors, you know - and I know the game] was boundless. That was a consequence George Floyd could not overcome - simple compliance with police. I know, some you will complain that I don't understand because I'm not Black. But I do understand that with my compliance with whatever police ask, I do not run the risk of their becoming irate with me. Sugar is more useful in such situations than salt. Regardless of race.
#8
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@Barney
Don’t get be wrong, he was a horrible human being
. . .
I don't think I personally hold that George Floyd was a terrible human being, as I did not know him personally, but his 'record leaves me with with suspicion and doubt.
Perhaps Chauvin is a 'worse human than Floyd.
My post was out of irritation and anger of how 'high many people praise him, paint him as harmless, hold him up as a martyr, who hold his past blameless for his fate.

Much of my opinion is likely due to personal sentiment regarding my second brother, who is a drug addict, unwilling to change, 'literally insane, has been told by the doctors how he's damaging his body including his heart by his drug use.
My second brother has been to county jail for disturbing the peace, and threatening people with an axe.
Told me once he thought he might have to kill myself or my older brother because we'd been trying to confront him on his drug use, and regulate his behavior in the house so he didn't f*cking steal whatever he could. . .
Several of his teeth have rotted out from drug use, my first brother suspects that our second brother has been taken advantage of sexually in exchange for drugs or favors. . .
I would not/will not be surprised when he dies.
. . .
And perhaps my response is callous, perhaps I cannot see the discrimination in the system to black people in America,
But if my brother was shot by police, I expect I'd say oh well, sh*t happens.
Perhaps I'd respond different, I don't know, I'm not great with theoretical situations.

but I prefer holding people accountable for what they actually did.
I think your statement is correct.

Any news stories to confirm this? Because it sounds a lot like part of a long debunked conspiracy theory that he’s actually a Spanish rapist who was only pretending to die...
I've not dug into the story, though it's one I've heard before.
That it's more hearsay, and possibly exaggerated, 'does make it wrong for me state it so.

Going by,
"Furthermore, the claims made in this meme are either exaggerated or outright fabricated. While Floyd was indeed arrested for his involvement in a home robbery in 2007 (we conducted a detailed analysis of Floyd’s criminal record, including the robbery from 2007, in this article), no evidence suggests that Henriquez was pregnant, or that Floyd threatened to kill her baby. Henriquez was injured during the incident, though the police report says the injuries were inflicted by another man, not Floyd. "

Going by,
"In 2009, George Floyd was arrested for a 1st-degree felony charge, as per police criminal records/history/past, of assault and armed robbery he took part in 2007 and spent five years in prison for breaking into a lady’s house with the intent to rob her. George agreed that he wore a blue uniform to look like a government employee to gain the lady’s trust, and eventually pave his way into the house.
The lady soon realized that the person was impersonating to be a government worker, she tried to shut the door but Floyd brute-forced his way into the house. Consequently, a Ford truck pulled up to the house’s main entrance, five people exited the truck and went straight inside the lady’s house.
According to Daily Mail (UK), the court report mentions that the victim identified George as the criminal, tallest of all the robbers, who pressed a pistol to her stomach and forced his way into the house. George Floyd’s height was 6 foot 6 inches.
Not finding any cash, Floyd and other men took jewelry and the lady’s cellphone and fled the scene using the truck. A neighbor had witnessed the robbery attempt, wrote down the license plate number, and reported the incident to 911 instantly.
The police followed the lead and successfully tracked down the car. Floyd was found behind the wheels. Later, his identity was cross-verified with the women who reported that a tall suspect had placed a gun to her abdomen and invaded her home forcefully."

#9
Lemming
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@fauxlaw
Certainly the police could use more training,
Could use less hooah warrior training,
Should approach situations with an intent and understanding of de-escalation,
Should take note of individuals such as Chauvin's many complaints, and either remove him from the force, or change him to a desk job that he does not interact with the general public.
Shouldn't be financially incentivized to get people for infractions.

If people demonize Chauvin though, put all the blame on him, none on the police force who threw him under the bus, what's going to change really.
Just a bad apple apparently,
'None of the 'other police would 'ever act as he did, what a disgrace to their force apparently.
'Never did the police chief ever hear of a knee restraint, that was 'all Chauvin.
No one could ever act as Chauvin did without an intention to kill a man.

But whew, people are so happy now that they got Chauvin.
No room for reasonable doubt there.

Sarcasm. . .
#10
fauxlaw
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I agree with all of your first paragraph.
#11
Vader
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@Lemming
A large man, career criminal, robber , drug addict on illegal drugs at time of arrest, with heart problems, who once threatened a pregnant woman, get's caught counterfeiting a bill, resists the police, has a panic attack and dies.
I am still baffled that this man got a flag draped over his coffin when some soldiers don't even get that. I understand he shouldn't have died and he was trying to reform his life, but the fact he is being treated as a saint to me is abhorring 
#12
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@Lemming
I accept that the verdict that's been reached, is the verdict that's been reached.
Doesn't mean I 'agree with it, but you won't find me rioting.

I think the verdict is fair. I could see how people could say second degree murder but I didn't see it. 

I think you might be more mad at the events leading up to such events. The riots, the whole charity to the family raising that much money for no reason, the rise of more aggressive demeanors toward cops. I fully understand that and agree with you.

I think the case itself needs to be based on the case itself, not other factors. I think the cop should've been charged looking at things straightly from the case
#13
Username
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Some of you have really bad attitudes about the nature of people. George Floyd was a human; not an angel, "horrible person", monster, etc
#14
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@Lemming
A large man, career criminal, robber , drug addict on illegal drugs at time of arrest, with heart problems, who once threatened a pregnant woman, get's caught counterfeiting a bill, resists the police, has a panic attack and dies.
Much of public goes overboard in whining about race, claim the criminal is an 'angel, put up pictures of him everywhere idolizing him as some saint-like martyr, threaten to loot and burn.
Why is it so difficult for folks like yourself to understand what this was about?

George Floyd’s character and criminal history is completely, utterly irrelevant to this entire issue. No one is saying he was an Angel, we’re saying he doesn’t have to be one for his life to matter.

The job of the police is to protect and serve, they are not the judge jury and executioner. We have a criminal justice system for a reason, or at least we have always taken for granted that we do and that we know how it works. This trial was about whether that is actually true. It’s about whether police officers are free to disregard the lives of anyone they decide to put in handcuffs. A not guilty verdict would essentially mean they can do whatever they want. That is why people would have rioted.

The fact that you can’t tell the difference between recognizing someone’s humanity vs idolization says quite a bit.


#15
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@Double_R
George's character/history may be irrelevant to the incident resulting in his death, but I wonder if he acted as he did because he thought it was expected of him, or whether he chose to follow character and history, which effectively was the same thing.
#16
Vader
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@Username
He was trying to reform his life and that is great. I am all about forgiving people for the sins they commit and reforming them according to my religion. However, to call him a saint and a martyr would just be factually incorrect
#17
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@Double_R
I think you might be more mad at the events leading up to such events. The riots, the whole charity to the family raising that much money for no reason, the rise of more aggressive demeanors toward cops. I fully understand that and agree with you.
I think the case itself needs to be based on the case itself, not other factors. I think the cop should've been charged looking at things straightly from the case
It's quite possible that much of the events 'around the case, and how those events have hyped and shaped some people's opinions regarding it, have bothered me.
And I agree the case ought be based on itself.


Why is it so difficult for folks like yourself to understand what this was about?
I 'have been pondering that question recently.

George Floyd’s character and criminal history is completely, utterly irrelevant to this entire issue. No one is saying he was an Angel, we’re saying he doesn’t have to be one for his life to matter.

I agree that despite an individuals past, they are entitled to fair treatment, justice within our system.

But I would be more surprised if my first brother was killed by the police, rather than my second brother.

If someone with rough, life risking past, of disobeying the law, consuming drugs, threatening other humans dies at the hands of police, then a person is not so surprised or outraged as when a stellar past fellow dies at the hands of police.
Certainly I and some others judge Chauvin upon his past complaints.
A person lives poorly, then it is simply 'likely odds they will meet a bad end in life.
Such does NOT mean that those responsible, should not be held responsible. But 'I find the outrage out of proportion, but perhaps I lack empathy.
I'm BOTHERED that multiple people including a couple on this site have stated a preference for a guilty verdict with the 'reason being a of fear of rioting, and that some others have 'praised such reasoning.
I disagree 'highly with the fanatical and social pressure aspects of BLM.

The job of the police is to protect and serve, they are not the judge jury and executioner. We have a criminal justice system for a reason, or at least we have always taken for granted that we do and that we know how it works. This trial was about whether that is actually true. It’s about whether police officers are free to disregard the lives of anyone they decide to put in handcuffs. A not guilty verdict would essentially mean they can do whatever they want. That is why people would have rioted.
'I see hypocrisy and lack of self responsibility in the movement at large.
'I see parts of society that have given 'up on justice, and are more interested in appeasing the mob.

I would 'not be surprised if the 'forceful support of a part of society set me back in the opposite position a fair bit.
I 'think I'd have the same conclusions regardless if George Floyd was white, and no mass protests had erupted, but theoretical situations are difficult for me to predict.

The fact that you can’t tell the difference between recognizing someone’s humanity vs idolization says quite a bit.
I recognize George Floyds humanity,

But a significant part of society see's him as an angel, hero, martyr, innocent lamb.
And by such has pushed a narrative.
"Thank you, George Floyd, for sacrificing your life for justice." - Nancy Pelosi
#18
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@fauxlaw
I agree that people ought be allowed to reform their lives.

I think he was just surprised, scared, panicked, a bit out of it.
#19
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George floyd wasnt an angel but does a cop really need to put his knee on someones neck for 9 minutes to make sure he wont do anything sus?
#20
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@Crocodile
No,
But I am not convinced that he thought such 'would, or even had the chance to kill Floyd.
I'm not convinced that such would have killed a person without the complications that Floyd may have or was experiencing.
I'm not convinced that it's 'not common practice by police.
I'm not convinced regarding the extremity of the knee.
I'm not convinced that they were not distracted by the crowd.
I'm not convinced that they weren't at a loss of what action to take next.
I'm not convinced they weren't expecting EMTs to arrive shortly.
I'm not convinced it wasn't a mistake, and error.
I'm not convinced that Chauvin did not think that a necessary restraint when dealing with an individual he suspected of being in an drug or excited state.

I 'do agree,
That the police should not have approached him harshly in a disorienting manner.
That George Floyd lacking a a weapon, despite his size, that the cops could have given him time to calm down without restraining him in  the manner they did.
That the police should have started chest compressions as soon as they could not feel a pulse.
#21
RationalMadman
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George Floyd actually was an angel relative to what a guy his size could have physically done in that situation. 

The verdict is 100% accurate but I'd like to say that second-degree murder is automatically inclusive of the other 2 crimes, you cannot possibly commit second-degree murder and not be responsible for third-degree murder as well as second-degree manslaughter.
#22
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@fauxlaw
but I wonder if he acted as he did because he thought it was expected of him
Though what was expected of him?
#23
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@Lemming
If someone with rough, life risking past, of disobeying the law, consuming drugs, threatening other humans dies at the hands of police, then a person is not so surprised or outraged as when a stellar past fellow dies at the hands of police.
But why is this your focus? Floyd dies at the hands of police and instead of focusing on why the people who are trained with our tax dollars, sworn to protect us, and given a gun and a badge would treat someone like that, you focus on Floyd’s poor life decisions and suggest he just wasn’t with caring about. It’s disgusting.

This is exactly why black people feel the need to tell the world that their lives matter. We we see this every single time a black person is killed, a race to dig up every single bad thing they did in their life so they can be painted as a worthless thug. Do you really believe the same would happen if these people were white? Honestly, do you?

Certainly I and some others judge Chauvin upon his past complaints.
Of course, because Chauvin was the one on trial. His actions are the ones being evaluated, so of course his past is relevant. Floyd never got that chance, which is why it’s so disgusting when people like you focus on him.

'I see hypocrisy and lack of self responsibility in the movement at large.
You should probably listen to what the movement is actually saying. Hint: you won’t find it on Fox News.

But a significant part of society see's him as an angel, hero, martyr, innocent lamb.
No they don’t, that’s what you’re projecting onto everyone else. Floyd is not a martyr, he’s a symbol of what nearly every black person in America fears. Read your own links; “George Floyd reflects our pain”

This isn’t that hard. I’m not sure whether it was meant as a serious statement before when you said you don’t feel empathy, but it seems clear that you don’t. I suggest you spend some time practicing it before you judge where others are coming from.
#24
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@Double_R
The individuals background is a focus for me, because I dislike how a part of society is glorifying him.
The individuals background is a focus for me, because it pertains to their physical health, which pertains to the possible cause of death.

I 'expect if the person was white, there would not have been such mass protests,
I 'understand that you and many others feel that what's important at this point in time is black people.
I 'agree that black individuals lives matter.
I 'don't agree with the grandstanding, confrontation, calls for no police, lack of personal responsibility, claims of being the 'only individuals with any hardship in life.

As I said, my focus on his Floyd's past has to do with my dislike of how part of culture is glorifying him and how this effects society.
As well as how his past choices relate to his health, and thus the case.

I don't watch Fox news.

A person is to people, what they 'claim said individual as.

Terrible events occur frequently, are 'viewed frequently with the aid of technology.
How many times can one be 'sad over strangers.
#25
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Why do people keep saying this when he was high on fentanyl and passing counterfeit money. He was still in a criminal lifestyle. None of his crimes are death penalty crimes and he should not have died for them. 
#26
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@Polytheist-Witch
I don't think he knew his $20 was counterfeit in the first place
#27
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@Vader
Nevertheless, he must have known he was resisting arrest, never a good plan.
#28
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@Lemming
The individuals background is a focus for me, because I dislike how a part of society is glorifying him.
I just explained how you are wrong. Did you read what I wrote? Do you have any thoughts on it?

The individuals background is a focus for me, because it pertains to their physical health, which pertains to the possible cause of death.
Every medical expert who examined Floyd before and after his death made clear that he was killed by having a knee to his neck. What more information do you need and why?

I 'expect if the person was white, there would not have been such mass protests,
Nice dodge. The question was, do you really believe that his past, just like the past of every other black person we’ve seen die at the hands of the police, would be scrutinized the same way of all these people were white? Do you really think there would be this national effort to paint them as thugs and criminals?

I 'don't agree with the.. lack of personal responsibility, claims of being the 'only individuals with any hardship in life.
You’re just wrong on both of those. Lack of attention to personal responsibility is not as you are conveniently interpreting it, a suggestion that he/they handled the situation perfectly. It’s about the fact that if we are going to discuss responsibility we need to start with the professionals. It’s absolutely absurd that a police officer, someone who is trained, paid, and entrusted makes a mistake that kills someone, and you want to instead focus on the actions of the civilian who meets none of that criteria and carries none of that responsibility. Until people like you stop raging about silly things like your imagined national worship of George Floyd, that will and should remain the focus.

And no one is claiming that black people are the only ones facing any kind of hardship. Where did you get that from?
#29
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@Vader
I don't think he knew his $20 was counterfeit in the first place
I actually think this is the strangest part of the entire thing we still don't know if he did or didn't actively realise the crime he commited that led to this unbelievable outcome.

He was a very amoral, borderline sociopathic guy in his past, I am not here to deny that but in that situation, right there he didn't seem to be properly aware of anything at all. It is possible a drug dealer paid him the note in change for a larger bill or something and never told him it was fake.

No one will ever know the truth. I do think he knew it was fake, personally, given the kind of things he was doing in the past and crowd he was 'rolling with' however it is possible he didn't.
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ILikePie5
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@fauxlaw
Nevertheless, he must have known he was resisting arrest, never a good plan.
He wouldn’t have even been arrested. They’d just ask him some questions at the station and then let him go